PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

[No Pre-TB]

So what? Do you have a problem connecting dots?

Not at all Enoch. Many times we can. But does the man of sin have the spirit of an antichrist? I dont know. We are not told the man of sin does. Does the man of sin deny the Father and the Son? We are not told.

 

[ewq1938]

No. The word Antichrist doesnt exist in Rev 13.

No English words are in Rev.

 

[dad]

There is no pretrib rapture. Read my entire post and you will see when the day of the Lord begins.

I disagree. Being appointed to that wrath is not biblical

 

[dad]

Dan 7:12 is the verse I use to show where the people who live during the 1000 years come from. Dan 7:13 marks the beginning of the 1000 years.

Dan. 7:9 “I kept looking


Until thrones were set up,


And the Ancient of Days took His seat;


His vesture was like white snow,


And the hair of His head like pure wool.


His throne was ablaze with flames,


Its wheels were a burning fire.


10 “A river of fire was flowing


And coming out from before Him;


Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,


And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;


The court sat,


And the books were opened.


11 “Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.


Dan. 7:13 “I kept looking in the night visions,


And behold, with the clouds of heaven


One like a Son of Man was coming,


And He came up to the Ancient of Days


And was presented before Him.


14 “And to Him was given dominion,


Glory and a kingdom,


That all the peoples, nations, and men of every language


Might serve Him.


His dominion is an everlasting dominion


Which will not pass away;


And His kingdom is one


Which will not be destroyed.

Not sure what you thought this meant. Have you some point?

 

[David in NJ]

I disagree. Being appointed to that wrath is not biblical

Tribulation is not God's wrath.

I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!” - John 16:33

Matthew ch24
Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Matthew ch24
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Acts 2:17-21
‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.’

 

[dad]

Tribulation is not God's wrath.

Not 'tribulation' but that special period of wrath known as the Great Tribulation and even the first part of the day of the Lord before that as well.

Matthew ch24
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Right, THAT tribulation!

 

[No Pre-TB]

No English words are in Rev.

My Bible is in English. Does it say in Rev that the man of sin denies the Father and the Son?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Not 'tribulation' but that special period of wrath known as the Great Tribulation

The Great Tribulation is not wrath. Megas persecution just means widespread as opposed to locally. It is pronounced all over instead of limited to certain areas. The feeling of being "hemmed in" will be everywhere. But great tribulation is still never identified as God's wrath. Persecution of God's people has always been mankind against his faithful.

The word rendered "tribulation" - θλίψις thlipsis - is a word of general character, meaning "affliction," though perhaps there is here an allusion to persecution. The sense, however, would be better expressed by the phrase great trials.

Particularly the last struggle of the beast, which will be the hour of temptation, that will come upon all the world; and in general all the afflictions, reproaches, persecutions, and many tribulations of all the saints, and every member of Christ in this world, who in the new Jerusalem church state will be come out of them;

 

[dad]

The Great Tribulation is not wrath.

Says who?

Luke 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Jesus disagrees with you.

The word rendered "tribulation" - θλίψις thlipsis - is a word of general character, meaning "affliction," though perhaps there is here an allusion to persecution. The sense, however, would be better expressed by the phrase great trials.

No that time is the time of wrath. No way around it.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Says who?

Luke 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Jesus disagrees with you.

Yes, 2 different things happened to the Jews. They endured tribulation and eventually they endured God's wrath with Jerusalem's destruction.
2 different words with 2 different meanings.
Distress: anagké: calamity, distress, straits
Wrath: Orge: (referring to God's) fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin

No disagreement with what Jesus said. As I asked someone earlier, if the first 4 Trumpets are wrath on mankind, why are they not even "woe's"? Have you thought about that? Or in Exodus the plagues were called temptations and trials. And we have similar plagues in the Trumpets. These things are important to ponder in order to ascertain the truth @dad

 

[jamesdalbright]

I disagree. Being appointed to that wrath is not biblical

You falsely claim that those who say there is no pretribulation rapture are claiming we believers are appointed to God's wrath. The scripture the pretriber cites pertains believers not being appointed to experience the wrath of God in the Lake of Fire. It through you misuse of this scripture that you falsely inject the idea of being appointed to wrath during the period of great tribulation. The scriptures reveal that God pours out His wrath on the unsaved during the great tribulation period not the believers.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Not sure what you thought this meant. Have you some point?

You were discussing those that live during the 1000 years in the post I responded to. Dan 7:12 tells us they are those who are granted and extension of life after the Antichrist and his armies are disposed. Dan 7:12 “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.

 

[ewq1938]

My Bible is in English. Does it say in Rev that the man of sin denies the Father and the Son?

It doesn't matter at all.

That is not the only thing that can identify an antichrist.

 

[ewq1938]

Says who?

Luke 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Jesus disagrees with you.


No that time is the time of wrath. No way around it.

Of course it's wrath, from satan.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[dad]

Yes, 2 different things happened to the Jews. They endured tribulation and eventually they endured God's wrath with Jerusalem's destruction.
2 different words with 2 different meanings.
Distress: anagké: calamity, distress, straits
Wrath: Orge: (referring to God's) fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin

There is a certain time 'in those days' when it is nothing usual and not to be compared with other times at all. It is unique and it is THOSE days Jesus said were wrath.

No disagreement with what Jesus said. As I asked someone earlier, if the first 4 Trumpets are wrath on mankind, why are they not even "woe's"? Have you thought about that? Or in Exodus the plagues were called temptations and trials. And we have similar plagues in the Trumpets. These things are important to ponder in order to ascertain the truth @dad

Wrath does not have to be designated a woe! Like a woman who is in labor it gets more intense as time passes.

 

[dad]

You falsely claim that those who say there is no pretribulation rapture are claiming we believers are appointed to God's wrath.

Bingo
As Jesus says
Luke 21:23

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. So if you are still here in those days you are here for wrath

The scripture the pretriber cites pertains believers not being appointed to experience the wrath of God in the Lake of Fire.

Nope. The lake is not here in those days! Gong!

It through you misuse of this scripture that you falsely inject the idea of being appointed to wrath during the period of great tribulation. The scriptures reveal that God pours out His wrath on the unsaved during the great tribulation period not the believers.

Except those days are wrath Jesus said. You are severely overruled.

 

[dad]

You were discussing those that live during the 1000 years in the post I responded to. Dan 7:12 tells us they are those who are granted and extension of life after the Antichrist and his armies are disposed. Dan 7:12 “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.

Nope. Their dominion was taken away...we will rule. When? For the 1000 years. Simple.

 

[dad]

Of course it's wrath, from satan.

Says you. Not Jesus.

Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

So when is that reserved time? In the end.

Psalms 2:12

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.

9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

We know it is in that end time when He destroys His enemies off the earth. Not today. Not any other time.

It is clear that the end period is wrath
Ezekiel 38:19
For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Surely you are familiar enough with prophesy to know when that shaking of the earth is?

The period is in prophesy many times and is a clear distinct time in the end.


14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.


15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,


16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.


17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

Not the wrath of Satan. The wrath of God Almighty. That includes the wrath of Satan.

 

[Davy]

Here's another one having a problem connecting dots. See Rev 16:13 and 19:20.

I have already 'seen', 'read', and 'understood' Rev.16:13 and 19:20. You are simply believing on a doctrine of men instead of thinking for yourself.

Give just ONE... Scripture proof of anyone born in the flesh that has ALREADY been sentenced to PERISH in the future "lake of fire".

 

[David in NJ]

Says you. Not Jesus.

Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

So when is that reserved time? In the end.

Psalms 2:12

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.

9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

We know it is in that end time when He destroys His enemies off the earth. Not today. Not any other time.

It is clear that the end period is wrath
Ezekiel 38:19
For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Surely you are familiar enough with prophesy to know when that shaking of the earth is?

The period is in prophesy many times and is a clear distinct time in the end.


14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.


15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,


16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.


17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

Not the wrath of Satan. The wrath of God Almighty. That includes the wrath of Satan.

You quoted from Job:
Job 21:30
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.


You asked: "So when is that reserved time? In the end."

Matthew ch24
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Acts ch2
In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

What are the SAME statements that the LORD Jesus said in Matt ch24 that we SEE in Acts ch2 as well as Revelation and the Prophet Daniel

What has never been spoken by God in the entirety of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation? = pre-trib rapture

God's Book is a children's book written for His Children = Believe the truth and you will know the Truth