PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

[Truth7t7]

Sodom was burned not the world. So shall it be when Jesus comes, a limited burn at first.

Your Claim Is "False"

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[dad]

Your Claim Is "False"

Prove it

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Plain as the nose on your face

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

In your conflated delusions maybe. The thing is that we will not reign over some burned out people less planet. Ridiculous fantasy

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

It tells us when. After the thousand years you don't believe in!

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Yes they will, and us with Him!

As for your attempt at using verses, nothing but a misconceived mishmash of confused and conflated salad of prophesies none of which you comprehend because you insisted on cramming them all into some afternoon tea time fantasy.

 

[Truth7t7]

Prove it


Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Plain as the nose on your face




In your conflated delusions maybe. The thing is that we will not reign over some burned out people less planet. Ridiculous fantasy


It tells us when. After the thousand years you don't believe in!

Yes they will, and us with Him!

As for your attempt at using verses, nothing but a misconceived mishmash of confused and conflated salad of prophesies none of which you comprehend because you insisted on cramming them all into some afternoon tea time fantasy.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[dad]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Can you find the winning lottery numbers in there for next week? Can you find the life of David in there? The flood? Your address? etc etc
No one needs to find anything in some random passage you choose.
One thing I cannot find in there though is a reason to wave away in disbelief the time period given (1000 years) Do you read the part in Rev where it says 1260 days are left from the time the abomination of desolation is set up till the end 'really' means 1260 million years? Why make stuff up? When the bible says 'As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image' psalm 73:20 did you think that meant that anything you want to disbelieve you can just say God was dreaming? No. The context of God awakening as from a dream, or being eternal, or considering 1000 years as a small amount of time is totally out of context of prophesies giving real exact time periods. That should be obvious.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why make stuff up?

I Agree, as the many have done in claims of a literal 1,000 year kingdom on this earth being seen in Revelation 20:1-6, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

 

[ewq1938]

There will be people who are saved in the Trib and GRT Trib.

The bible does not say that happens though. It's pure speculation.

 

[ewq1938]

You can stay down here, as you seem to need it.

You can take part in the apostasia, as you seem to need it.

 

[dad]

I Agree, as the many have done in claims of a literal 1,000 year kingdom on this earth being seen in Revelation 20:1-6, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

So a thousand years is really...how long? A week is...how long? A month? You don't get to destroy times in prophesy that have been specified by God. Really.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes.

The son of Perdition shows up right after the Rapture.,

Not according to the bible which has the SOP showing up about 42 months before the rapture.

 

[dad]

The bible does not say that happens though. It's pure speculation.

? What did you think the angels and witnesses were doing if no one could be saved?

 

[ewq1938]

? What did you think the angels and witnesses were doing if no one could be saved?

When Christ was teaching, did the Pharisees get saved?

 

[dad]

When Christ was teaching, did the Pharisees get saved?

Are you suggesting the army of witnesses God sends in the end are there to waste time only and not bear fruit?

 

[Truth7t7]

So a thousand years is really...how long? A week is...how long? A month? You don't get to destroy times in prophesy that have been specified by God. Really.

Better said, you don't get to take a symbolic expression (Thousand Years) of the Lord's spiritual, and desperately try to apply this to earthly time, Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual

 

[dad]

Better said, you don't get to take a symbolic expression (Thousand Years)

You do no.ot get to declare that a given time in prophesy is some symbolic expression. People were expected to know the Daniel prophesy about when Messiah would come and know He would be here.

of the Lord's spiritual, and desperately try to apply this to earthly time, Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual

The times such as days and years and months in prophesy are there for a reason. They are specific and proof God is God. You do not get to badmouth or wave them away or pretend they are neither real nor relevant nor part of the prophesy given by the Almighty.

 

[Truth7t7]

You do noot get to declare that a given time in prophesy is some symbolic expression.

The times such as days and years and months in prophesy are there for a reason. They are specific and proof God is God. You do not get to badmouth or wave them away or pretend they are neither real nor relevant nor part of the prophesy given by the Almighty.

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Johann]

There absolutely is and you should acquaint yourself with the huge difference.

Correct-
The Day of the Lord

This corresponds to an OT phrase referring to God or His Messiah breaking into history to set up the new age of righteousness (cf. Isa. 2:12; Joel 1:15; 2:11,31; Amos 5:18; Zechariah 14). In the OT God's coming could be for blessing or for judgment. For believers it will be the culmination of salvation (i.e., resurrection) but for unbelievers the consummation of judgment.

The eschatological emphasis of a special coming day when humans will meet Jesus (as Savior or Judge) goes by several designations in Paul's writings:

1. "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (cf. 1 Cor. 1:8)

2. "the day of the Lord" (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Thess. 2:2)

3. "the day of the Lord Jesus" (cf. 2 Cor. 1:14)

4. "the day of Jesus Christ" (cf. Phil. 1:6)

5. "the day of Christ" (cf. Phil. 1:10; 2:16)

6. "His day (Son of Man)" (cf. Luke 17:24)

7. "the day that the Son of Man is revealed" (cf. Luke 17:30)

8. "the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ" (cf. 1 Cor. 1:7)

9. "when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven" (cf. 2 Thess. 1:7)

10. "in the presence of the Lord Jesus at His coming" (cf. 1 Thess. 2:19)

In the OT the writers saw two ages, an evil age and a coming age of righteousness, the age of the Spirit
God would intervene in history through His Messiah to set up this new age. This event was know as the "Day of the Lord." Notice that NT writers attribute this to Christ. His first coming, the Incarnation, was foretold in many OT texts. The Jews did not expect a divine person, just a divine intervention. The two comings of the Messiah, one as Suffering Servant and Savior, one as Judge and Lord, were not obvious to OT people.

THIS AGE AND THE AGE TO COME

The OT prophets viewed the future as an extension of the present. For them the future will be a restoration of geographical Israel. However, even they saw it as a new day (cf. Isa. 65:17; 66:22). With the continued willful rejection of YHWH by the descendants of Abraham (even after the exile) a new paradigm developed in Jewish intertestamental apocalyptic literature (i.e., I Enoch, IV Ezra, II Baruch). These writings make a distinction between two ages: a current evil age dominated by Satan and a coming age of righteousness dominated by the Spirit and inaugurated by the Messiah (often a dynamic warrior).

In this area of theology (eschatology) there is an obvious development. Theologians call this "progressive revelation." The NT affirms this new cosmic reality of two ages (i.e., a temporal dualism).



Jesus  Paul Hebrews (Paul)
Matt. 12:32; 13:22,39 Romans 12:2 Heb.1:2; 6:5; 11:3
Mark 10:30 1 Cor. 1:20; 2:6,8; 3:18
Luke 16:8; 18:30; 20:34-35 2 Cor. 4:4
Galatians 1:4
Eph. 1:21; 2:2,7; 6:12
1 Timothy 6:17
2 Timothy 4:10
Titus 2:12
In NT theology these two Jewish ages have been overlapped because of the unexpected and overlooked predictions of the two comings of the Messiah.

The incarnation of Jesus fulfilled most of the OT prophecies of the inauguration of the new age (Dan. 2:44-45). However, the OT also saw His coming as Judge and Conqueror, yet He came at first as the Suffering Servant (cf. Isaiah 53; Zech. 12:10), humble and meek (cf. Zechariah 9:9). He will return in power just as the OT predicted (cf. Revelation 19). This two-stage fulfillment caused the Kingdom to be present (inaugurated), but future (not fully consummated). This is the NT tension of the already, but not yet!

 

[David in NJ]

Correct-
The Day of the Lord

This corresponds to an OT phrase referring to God or His Messiah breaking into history to set up the new age of righteousness (cf. Isa. 2:12; Joel 1:15; 2:11,31; Amos 5:18; Zechariah 14). In the OT God's coming could be for blessing or for judgment. For believers it will be the culmination of salvation (i.e., resurrection) but for unbelievers the consummation of judgment.

The eschatological emphasis of a special coming day when humans will meet Jesus (as Savior or Judge) goes by several designations in Paul's writings:

1. "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (cf. 1 Cor. 1:8)

2. "the day of the Lord" (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Thess. 2:2)

3. "the day of the Lord Jesus" (cf. 2 Cor. 1:14)

4. "the day of Jesus Christ" (cf. Phil. 1:6)

5. "the day of Christ" (cf. Phil. 1:10; 2:16)

6. "His day (Son of Man)" (cf. Luke 17:24)

7. "the day that the Son of Man is revealed" (cf. Luke 17:30)

8. "the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ" (cf. 1 Cor. 1:7)

9. "when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven" (cf. 2 Thess. 1:7)

10. "in the presence of the Lord Jesus at His coming" (cf. 1 Thess. 2:19)

In the OT the writers saw two ages, an evil age and a coming age of righteousness, the age of the Spirit
God would intervene in history through His Messiah (see Special Topic: Messiah) to set up this new age. This event was know as the "Day of the Lord." Notice that NT writers attribute this to Christ. His first coming, the Incarnation, was foretold in many OT texts. The Jews did not expect a divine person, just a divine intervention. The two comings of the Messiah, one as Suffering Servant and Savior, one as Judge and Lord, were not obvious to OT people.

THIS AGE AND THE AGE TO COME

The OT prophets viewed the future as an extension of the present. For them the future will be a restoration of geographical Israel. However, even they saw it as a new day (cf. Isa. 65:17; 66:22). With the continued willful rejection of YHWH by the descendants of Abraham (even after the exile) a new paradigm developed in Jewish intertestamental apocalyptic literature (i.e., I Enoch, IV Ezra, II Baruch). These writings make a distinction between two ages: a current evil age dominated by Satan and a coming age of righteousness dominated by the Spirit and inaugurated by the Messiah (often a dynamic warrior).

In this area of theology (eschatology) there is an obvious development. Theologians call this "progressive revelation." The NT affirms this new cosmic reality of two ages (i.e., a temporal dualism).



Jesus  Paul Hebrews (Paul)
Matt. 12:32; 13:22,39 Romans 12:2 Heb.1:2; 6:5; 11:3
Mark 10:30 1 Cor. 1:20; 2:6,8; 3:18
Luke 16:8; 18:30; 20:34-35 2 Cor. 4:4
Galatians 1:4
Eph. 1:21; 2:2,7; 6:12
1 Timothy 6:17
2 Timothy 4:10
Titus 2:12
In NT theology these two Jewish ages have been overlapped because of the unexpected and overlooked predictions of the two comings of the Messiah.

The incarnation of Jesus fulfilled most of the OT prophecies of the inauguration of the new age (Dan. 2:44-45). However, the OT also saw His coming as Judge and Conqueror, yet He came at first as the Suffering Servant (cf. Isaiah 53; Zech. 12:10), humble and meek (cf. Zechariah 9:9). He will return in power just as the OT predicted (cf. Revelation 19). This two-stage fulfillment caused the Kingdom to be present (inaugurated), but future (not fully consummated). This is the NT tension of the already, but not yet!

Well done Brother!

 

[Johann]

Well done Brother!

Shalom to you and family dear brother.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Well done Brother!

https://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/32-16/joel/joel32k-02.mp3

Enjoy listening, if you have time @David in NJ and correct errors should you find some.

 

[Behold]

The bible does not say that happens though. It's pure speculation.

Let me show you how to see it.

Right now....

And starting with the Cross of Christ ... God is dealing with the Gentiles......"In the Time of the Gentiles'".
Paul is the "apostle to the Gentiles"..

Notice...>"time of".

So, this "time" is gong to end, and God is going to then begin again to deal with the JEW.

This is why you have 144,00 of them in the Trib.

So, when the 'time of the Gentiles'" ends, then the Trib, and God dealing again with the Jew, BEGINS.

This means that when you read about the "elect" and so forth in the Trib, its not talking about the Body of Christ.

So, that window of TIME that happens when the "time of the gentile's" ends, and the Jewish Trib, and Judgement of Nations begins........is the Rapture of the Bride.