PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

[dad]

Beginning in Genesis God declares both the first Coming of Messiah as well as His Second Coming.

I know. However name a single verse that says what you were asked? You see He expects us to search stuff out. For example He expected people to know that Scripture said when He would be here, so people should have known Dan 9 - that it was time. Funny that some posters here are still clueless on that one!

i only asked you if you can find just one verse that declares a 'pre-trib rapture' of the Body of Christ anywhere in Scripture.

We are not appointed to the wrath. If you don't know what that is, don't blame me. He also promised to take us where He is. That doesn't fit the return to earth as much as the Rapture. The bride is also in heaven in Revelation, no? Nowhere does it say the people on earth in those days are the Bride. That makes a trifecta already and I only thought about it a few seconds.

The OT contains His First Coming which includes:
a.) His Coming in the flesh
b.) His suffering
c.) betrayed and crucified
d.) 3 days = Jonah
e.) His Resurrection

The OT contains His Second Coming
a.) Allegorical story of Joseph
b.) Melchizedek King of Salem(Jerusalem)
c.) Zechariah chapter 14
d.) and more

Therefore, if 'pre-trib' rapture were truth then God would of spoken it and we would be able to SEE it in Scripture = OT and/or NT

Yes, but no verse you posted states He would come as a man first and die and then thousands of years later would return again. Yet we know that is what the verses mean as a whole.

 

[David in NJ]

Why say such ignorant things? Of course there are multitudes mentioned after the wrath. There are also oodles of witnesses including angels in the sky witnessing.

Again a foolish false statement with zero connection to the topic or reality. I just pointed out how the gospel is preached in spades after we go up to be with Him in the air.



When did you think His coming was? He comes up over earth in the air for the Rapture. You thought that didn't count as Him coming for us? Seriously?

When He appears for us we will go up and be like Him. This is news?

Why are you lying?

You said: "I just pointed out how the gospel is preached in spades after we go up to be with Him in the air"

You never showed any such scripture that states this.

There is only one Coming of Christ = His Second Coming as declared by the LORD, the Apostles and OT Prophets
1 Thess 4:13-18 is His Second Coming, as is Matt ch24, 1 Cor ch15, 1 John 3:1-3, Hebrews 9:28, 2 Thess ch2

It is sin to lie especially against God's words.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[David in NJ]

I know. However name a single verse that says what you were asked? You see He expects us to search stuff out. For example He expected people to know that Scripture said when He would be here, so people should have known Dan 9 - that it was time. Funny that some posters here are still clueless on that one!



We are not appointed to the wrath. If you don't know what that is, don't blame me. He also promised to take us where He is. That doesn't fit the return to earth as much as the Rapture. The bride is also in heaven in Revelation, no? Nowhere does it say the people on earth in those days are the Bride. That makes a trifecta already and I only thought about it a few seconds.

Yes, but no verse you posted states He would come as a man first and die and then thousands of years later would return again. Yet we know that is what the verses mean as a whole.

#1. - There is no pre-trib rapture in Daniel chapter 9 or in any place in the Book of Daniel.

#2.- Daniel chapter nine proves that we are in the 70th Week.

#3.- Blood washed Saints are the Bride of Christ = Matthew ch24 , 2 Corinthians 11:2 , Ephesians 5:22-33

ALSO

Genesis declares that Messiah will come as a man and die as a man = Gospel was demonstrated by God in Abraham, Issac & Jacob

As does Isaiah 7:14 and chapter 53

As do the Psalms

 

[dad]

You said: "I just pointed out how the gospel is preached in spades after we go up to be with Him in the air"

You never showed any such scripture that states this.

Unless you show that the two witnesses etc etc etc are all before the Rapture, you have no point.

1 Thess 4:13-18 is His Second Coming, as is Matt ch24, 1 Cor ch15, 1 John 3:1-3, Hebrews 9:28, 2 Thess ch2

There is only one Coming of Christ = His Second Coming as declared by the LORD, the Apostles and OT Prophets

One coming to the earth. One coming in the air. He does not come to the earth at the Gathering in the air according to the bible. Why pretend?

Rather than getting shrill and accusatory and desperate, just admit you are wrong.

 

[dad]

#1. - There is no pre-trib rapture in Daniel chapter 9 or in any place in the Book of Daniel.

That was mentioned in regards to giving the exact time Jesus would be here. Try to focus and debate with honesty.

#2.- Daniel chapter nine proves that we are in the 70th Week.

Insane claim you could never support

#3.- Blood washed Saints are the Bride of Christ = Matthew ch24 , 2 Corinthians 11:2 , Ephesians 5:22-33

Not all! The ones in the tribulation are here after the Bride goes up in the air. You conflate events in a bullish way

ALSO

Genesis declares that Messiah will come as a man and die as a man = Gospel was demonstrated by God in Abraham, Issac & Jacob

No thousands of years gap though? Keep working on that. You do realize the Pharisees expected the messiah to be the lion, and take over etc?

As does Isaiah 7:14 and chapter 53

As do the Psalms

Nope. None of those mentions a gap of time thousands of years long.

 

[David in NJ]

Unless you show that the two witnesses etc etc etc are all before the Rapture, you have no point.

One coming to the earth. One coming in the air. He does not come to the earth at the Gathering in the air according to the bible. Why pretend?

Rather than getting shrill and accusatory and desperate, just admit you are wrong.

You believe in pre-trib rapture but this does not mean it is truth or comes from truth.

Lying is the sin that brought the whole world under the power of satan and death.

God said we are never to add to His words or take away(deny) His words for if we do we can end up being a liar.

pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God and cannot be found in scripture - it is man-made

The Gospel and Revelation chapters 6 thru 14 prove there is no pre-trib rapture as do the Apostles and the OT Prophets especially Daniel.

Truth is in what God has spoken = His word.

This is why i always ask for the scripture(s) that validates your claim.

 

[David in NJ]

That was mentioned in regards to giving the exact time Jesus would be here. Try to focus and debate with honesty.


Insane claim you could never support



Not all! The ones in the tribulation are here after the Bride goes up in the air. You conflate events in a bullish way


No thousands of years gap though? Keep working on that. You do realize the Pharisees expected the messiah to be the lion, and take over etc?

Nope. None of those mentions a gap of time thousands of years long.

Based on your comments you obviously do not know or understand scripture.

Daniel ch9

“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

 

[Keraz]

One coming to the earth. One coming in the air. He does not come to the earth at the Gathering in the air according to the bible. Why pretend?

Matthew 24:30-31 shows you to be wrong.
Jesus will Return to the earth, seen by all; Revelation 1:7 and to the place He departed from, Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11.
The faithful people, those who proved their trust in Him during all the prophesied events, will be gathered and transported thru the earths atmosphere, to where Jesus will be, in Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:2-4

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a Satanic lie, which has fooled many. It isn't so bad to believe it, just leaves one in the dark about what really will happen, but teaching and promoting fables is a serious matter, James 3:1
I note that you demand scriptural proofs form others, while you fail to provide proper proofs yourself. If you have the moral fortitude to reply to my post, please be sure to show how my scriptures err, in your opinion, by other scriptures.

 

[dad]

You believe in pre-trib rapture but this does not mean it is truth or comes from truth.

Lying is the sin that brought the whole world under the power of satan and death.

Is this an attempt to make it sound as if you know the Rapture is not before the wrath?

pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God and cannot be found in scripture - it is man-made

Empty claim colored with self righteous snarky attitude.

The Gospel and Revelation chapters 6 thru 14 prove there is no pre-trib rapture as do the Apostles and the OT Prophets especially Daniel.

No. Nothing close to that. The opposite actually.

Truth is in what God has spoken = His word.

This is why i always ask for the scripture(s) that validates your claim.

Your scripture that says God won't meet us in the air but be on earth while we are in the air? Face it you have a less that weak and confused position.

 

[dad]

Based on your comments you obviously do not know or understand scripture.

Daniel ch9

“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Not sure what you think what you posted says. It seems you are placing yourself in the category of those who are clueless that Dan 9 gave the exact time till Jesus was to come? Big surprise there.

 

[dad]

Matthew 24:30-31 shows you to be wrong.

Nope

Jesus will Return to the earth, seen by all; Revelation 1:7

Obviously that is not the Rapture but the return to earth of Christ.

and to the place He departed from, Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11.

Again, not when He meets us in the air. Obviously that is when He lands back on the earth

The faithful people, those who proved their trust in Him during all the prophesied events, will be gathered and transported thru the earths atmosphere, to where Jesus will be, in Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:2-4

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord 's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isaiah 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord , to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

That again is obviously after He comes back down to earth.

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a Satanic lie,

If you had an ability to differentiate between truth and lie that would mean something.

which has fooled many. It isn't so bad to believe it, just leaves one in the dark about what really will happen, but teaching and promoting fables is a serious matter, James 3:1

Those who think others are fooled should be able to mount a case and be prepared to give an answer. So far you are not even having the darts hit the dartboard.

I note that you demand scriptural proofs form others, while you fail to provide proper proofs yourself. If you have the moral fortitude to reply to my post, please be sure to show how my scriptures err, in your opinion, by other scriptures.

False. I pointed out that it was not a single verse that said He did or did not take us up in the air with Him.

 

[No Pre-TB]

That does sound like the time Daniel was talking about

Hello dad,

It does sound like it because it happened in 70 AD. And it will happen again some day. But notice how the DotL has 2 things in it. It isnt a time period of only wrath, but it also has thlipsis in it. When is the wrath and when is the thlipsis? Secondly, we are told that we are children of the day and the day of the Lord will not overtake us because we do not sleep or are drunk as the wicked. (1 Thessalonians 5:2-8) That day, when it happens, wrath will not come on the children of light. But we are to go through the trial of our faith in thlipsis when it comes. (1 Peter 4:12-13)

The worst is at the very end with the bowls of wrath and when Jesus returns to slay all the wicked.

Yes. The wrath of God on wicked mankind is not poured out till the bowls. Let me say that again, the wrath of God on wicked mankind is not poured out till the bowls.

Rev 11:18
The nations were filled with wrath, but now the time of your wrath has come. It is time to judge the dead and reward your servants the prophets, as well as your holy people, and all who fear your name, from the least to the greatest. It is time to destroy all who have caused destruction on the earth.

Let me ask a question:
If God has been showing his wrath on mankind, punishing them all this time right up to the 7th trumpet, why are we then told "now it is time for Him to destroy those that destroy the Earth"?

What has been happening all this time if he wasn't using his wrath to do just that?

If the entire time was wrath, why are we all given a choice? What choice? Rev 14:9-10
If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

So, if this has been wrath all this time as you say, why does the angel tell us not to take the mark so that we dont endure His wrath? Think about that for a moment. Its a serious question.

Now let me take you back one verse. Right before that angel gives everyone a chance to avoid God's wrath, this happens:

Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come

And what did God judge and destroy? Mankind by his wrath? No. He destroys mystery Babylon in the continuing verse. Babylon's destruction is the answer to avenge the 5th seal martyrs. This was his Orge. Everything after Babylon's destruction TILL the 7th Trumpet is wicked mankind, the beast of the sea Kingdom and the beast of the Earth that causes it. Consistently, we are told to reverence God and give Him glory. Obviously, we all know how that turns out. None of the wicked do that through the trumpets until...right before the 7th Trumpet is blown and we see people do just that.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Or we can ask why does God say to us: Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

If he is about to destroy Babylon to appease the 5th seal martyrs, why are those in His wrath as you say told to get out of Babylon. That doesnt sound like wrath on mankind to me. if youre about to punish a child for an infraction, do you say go the other way, and when they do they are fine. Is that Wrath? Please think on these points.

Israel is the nation being invaded! The nation with the holy place. The nation where the beast will set of the abomination of desolation. The nation where the 2 witnesses will have their dead bodies lie in the streets. The nation that all nations will come against. The nation where those on the housetops need to drop everything and flee right away when they see the holy place defiled. The nation that God started long ago, whose fathers were Jacob and Abraham etc. The nation that will have most of the people killed in the end. The nation that will finally all get saved (those who remain alive). Etc The bulk of the Jews did not and will not turn to Christ till the end. The saved Jews now are the Bride and church like the rest of us.

The Church is part of Israel. The nation with the Holy Place? Jesus said "your house is left to you desolate". NOT God's house, Your house!
God resides in all of us as a temple w/o idols and abominations. That is what is Holy. He said Be ye Holy for I am Holy and he will dwell in us.

The Jews have been punished. Israel was destroyed, the temple destroyed. The mercy seat is gone. And yes, God does not forget his people who he first knew. We are told he is able to graft them in again. But that time is to correct the Church.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That is not describing the Jews, but the Church. How many times should the Jews be punished? After Jerusalem was destroyed? The next 1k years? What about the Holocaust? Any other time? And the Church gets off free? Are we not told:

Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

[David in NJ]

Is this an attempt to make it sound as if you know the Rapture is not before the wrath?



Empty claim colored with self righteous snarky attitude.

No. Nothing close to that. The opposite actually.


Your scripture that says God won't meet us in the air but be on earth while we are in the air? Face it you have a less that weak and confused position.

Again , just your words with no scripture.

Speaking the Truth is what God commands us to do.

If pre-trib rapture were true God would of said it in His word.

Matthew 4:4 "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God". -

 

[David in NJ]

Not sure what you think what you posted says. It seems you are placing yourself in the category of those who are clueless that Dan 9 gave the exact time till Jesus was to come? Big surprise there.

If you understood Daniel ch9 you would know what 'Week' Messiah was crucified.

If you understood the Book of Daniel you would know that 'pre-trib rapture' is a lie just as Daniel and the Apostle John declares.

You have been taught doctrines of men/religion which contradicts the Holy Scripture concerning His Second Coming.

 

[dad]

Hello dad,

It does sound like it because it happened in 70 AD. And it will happen again some day.

Impossible.
Daniel 12:1
"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

That rules out all other times.

But notice how the DotL has 2 things in it. It isnt a time period of only wrath, but it also has thlipsis in it.

I'm supposed to google the greek meaning or something?

When is the wrath and when is the thlipsis?

That depends, what is a thyliptis? More importantly why would anyone care?

Secondly, we are told that we are children of the day and the day of the Lord will not overtake us because we do not sleep or are drunk as the wicked. (1 Thessalonians 5:2-8) That day, when it happens, wrath will not come on the children of light. But we are to go through the trial of our faith in thlipsis when it comes. (1 Peter 4:12-13)

Not we. The tribulation saints.

Yes. The wrath of God on wicked mankind is not poured out till the bowls. Let me say that again, the wrath of God on wicked mankind is not poured out till the bowls.

No. The return of Christ and the bowls are part of it. So is the rest of the 7 years, just not as intense.

Rev 11:18
The nations were filled with wrath, but now the time of your wrath has come. It is time to judge the dead and reward your servants the prophets, as well as your holy people, and all who fear your name, from the least to the greatest. It is time to destroy all who have caused destruction on the earth.

Let me ask a question:
If God has been showing his wrath on mankind, punishing them all this time right up to the 7th trumpet, why are we then told "now it is time for Him to destroy those that destroy the Earth"?

Because the time of wrath involves more than just that time when He destroys the wicked in the end.

What has been happening all this time if he wasn't using his wrath to do just that?

He was giving them chance after undeserved chance to repent of course.

If the entire time was wrath, why are we all given a choice? What choice? Rev 14:9-10
If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

Because during the period of wrath, in that day, in those days, man has the choice to repent!

So, if this has been wrath all this time as you say, why does the angel tell us not to take the mark so that we dont endure His wrath? Think about that for a moment. Its a serious question.

They already endured some wrath. They are warned not to worship the devil or else they will face eternal wrath as well as special sores from taking the mark, and the worst part of that period of wrath still to come etc.

Now let me take you back one verse. Right before that angel gives everyone a chance to avoid God's wrath, this happens:

Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come

And what did God judge and destroy? Mankind by his wrath? No. He destroys mystery Babylon in the continuing verse. Babylon's destruction is the answer to avenge the 5th seal martyrs.

The hour of His judgment seems to be that same time of the last years. Judgment does not necessarily mean death by fire right away on the spot! The vials and bowls are all judgments

This was his Orge. Everything after Babylon's destruction TILL the 7th Trumpet is wicked mankind, the beast of the sea Kingdom and the beast of the Earth that causes it. Consistently, we are told to reverence God and give Him glory. Obviously, we all know how that turns out. None of the wicked do that through the trumpets until...right before the 7th Trumpet is blown and we see people do just that.

Point?

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Or we can ask why does God say to us: Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

If he is about to destroy Babylon to appease the 5th seal martyrs, why are those in His wrath as you say told to get out of Babylon. That doesnt sound like wrath on mankind to me. if youre about to punish a child for an infraction, do you say go the other way, and when they do they are fine. Is that Wrath? Please think on these points.

It is all part of the time of wrath, worse as it progresses as was pointed out.

The Church is part of Israel.

Say what??

The nation with the Holy Place? Jesus said "your house is left to you desolate". NOT God's house, Your house!
God resides in all of us as a temple w/o idols and abominations. That is what is Holy. He said Be ye Holy for I am Holy and he will dwell in us.

So you wave away the holy place where the abomination will be places as not real. Forget that.

The Jews have been punished. Israel was destroyed, the temple destroyed. The mercy seat is gone. And yes, God does not forget his people who he first knew. We are told he is able to graft them in again. But that time is to correct the Church.

No. The last years or wrath are not for the church. Even the believers here at that time will be holpen with a little help, and spared some of the curses like the children of Israel under Moses were.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That is not describing the Jews, but the Church.

No. The believers in the end period!

How many times should the Jews be punished? After Jerusalem was destroyed? The next 1k years? What about the Holocaust? Any other time? And the Church gets off free? Are we not told:

Until they say Uncle and finally repent of course, as they will.

 

[Keturah]

Pretrib vs G.tribulation= indoctrination = not the doctrine of Christ nor the doctrine of God !

2 JOHN CHAPTER 1 KJV
**7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.**
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that  ABIDETH in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 2 KJV
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always  causeth us to triumph IN CHRIST, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
17 For we are not as many, which CORRUPT the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

1 THESSALONIANS CHAPTER 5 KJV
8 But let us, who are of the  day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
***11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.****
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
13 But I would not have you to be  ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Believing in the " pre-trib rapture" does NOT make *not of Christ* but only makes one's vision DIM to the whole truth of the word of God!

It is indoctrination of men whom by PRIVATE INTERPRETATION have led others to believe what the word DOES NOT TEACH !

 Sorry for long post........

 

[Keraz]

Nope

The belief in a 'rapture to heaven[, is so contrary to what we are exhorted to do, that it is incredible for anyone to believe it.
Many verses say how we must stand firm in our faith thru all that must happen. It will be our time of testing, as 1 Peter 4:12 plainly states.

What use to God would humans be in heaven? We have been given our task, Matthew 28:20, It is not rescinded until Jesus Returns.

Again, not when He meets us in the air. Obviously that is when He lands back on the earth

The Prophecy which tells of the Lord's people meeting Him in the clouds, IS at the glorious Return. 1 Thess 4:17
There is no 'coming' of the Lord to gather His people before then.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Paul addressed the Pretribulation Rapture teachers in 2Th 2:1-5. When someone told the Thessalonians the rapture was at hand or could happen at any moment, the Thessalonians became confused about what Paul taught them. The fellow who said this was a Pretribulation Rapture teacher because when he said the rapture could happen at any moment the Antichrist had not yet emerged on the scene. In other words, he was teaching the rapture occurs before the Antichrist rises to power. In order for the Thessalonians to become confused about what Paul taught them they must have esteemed the Pretribulation Rapture teacher as Pastors are esteemed by believers today; otherwise the believers would not have taken him seriously. When Paul heard about this he wrote the letter recorded in 2Th. 2:1-5 and told the Thessalonians not to listen to the Pretribulation Rapture teacher because the rapture or our gathering to the Lord does not occur until after the the falling away and after the Antichrist seats himself in Jerusalem displaying himself as God. The scriptures tell us the Antichrist doesn’t seat himself in Jerusalem until 3 1/2 years after he emerges on the scene.

2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

I completely agree, and well said. The only part, and it is relatively insignificant, is that I don't believe the Bible teaches Antichrist will arrive after 3.5 years. We don't really know when he will arrive except that he defeats 3 European leaders, assuming control over a 10 nation, 7 leader, confederation. The "70th Week of Daniel" (Dan 9) was, I believe, fulfilled after only half the Week by the death and sacrifice of Christ.

But you do an excellent job, I feel, of describing Paul's purpose for writing 2 Thessalonians. Christians had not taken seriously Jesus' claim that he was not going to come like an "earthly Messiah," whether "in the wilderness" or "in the inner room." Rather, he would come from heaven to terminate the kingdoms of the pagan world. As such, he must come *after the revelation of Antichrist,* specifically to destroy him "with the breath of his mouth," or simply by his word.

 

[David in NJ]

I completely agree, and well said. The only part, and it is relatively insignificant, is that I don't believe the Bible teaches Antichrist will arrive after 3.5 years. We don't really know when he will arrive except that he defeats 3 European leaders, assuming control over a 10 nation, 7 leader, confederation. The "70th Week of Daniel" (Dan 9) was, I believe, fulfilled after only half the Week by the death and sacrifice of Christ.

But you do an excellent job, I feel, of describing Paul's purpose for writing 2 Thessalonians. Christians had not taken seriously Jesus' claim that he was not going to come like an "earthly Messiah," whether "in the wilderness" or "in the inner room." Rather, he would come from heaven to terminate the kingdoms of the pagan world. As such, he must come *after the revelation of Antichrist,* specifically to destroy him "with the breath of his mouth," or simply by his word.

CORRECT

Daniel 9:24-26
Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.

The Ministry of the LORD Jesus Christ was for approximately 3.5 years unto His Death & Resurrection.

The LORD Jesus Christ fulfilled the Most Important part of the 70th Week = "to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The Gospel, Acts and Hebrews chapters 8, 9, 10 confirm this and Revelation confirms this.

When the last 3.5 years begins is up to the FATHER and we will only know what we have already been told in His word.

All by FAITH = in His word = Gospel, Apostles, OT Prophets and Revelation

Peace

 

[jamesdalbright]

I completely agree, and well said. The only part, and it is relatively insignificant, is that I don't believe the Bible teaches Antichrist will arrive after 3.5 years.

I did not post that the Antichrist arrives.I posted what is stated in 2Th 2:4, which according to Dan 9:27 occurs in the middle of the week, which in accordance with Dan 8:13-14 occurs in the middle of the 2300 days, or about 3.5 years after the Antichrist emerges on the scene.
2TH 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Dan 9:27 “And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”
Dan 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “ How long will the vision about the regular sacrifice apply, while the transgression causes horror, so as to allow both the holy place and the host to be trampled?” 14 And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored.”