PAROUSIA – Jesus’ Second COMING or PRESENCE?

[Spiritual Israelite]

The words “even him,” supplied by the translators, should be deleted to make Paul’s intended meaning clearer. Verse 8 talks about Jesus’ “coming”: “whom the Lord [Jesus] ... shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [presence].” Verse 9 continues with the same thought: “whose [Jesus’] coming [presence] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.”

What? How can you say that Jesus's coming is "after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"? That makes no sense. No, it's the coming of "that wicked" which is "after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" because "that wicked" works in conjunction with Satan.

Just as Satan, the god of this world, is present but invisible as a spirit being, so Jesus can be present but unseen at his Second Advent because he is an invisible spirit being. The Greek word rendered “after” can be variously translated. The correct thought is that Jesus’ Second Presence is “accompanied by [or with] the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.”

What you're saying here doesn't even make any sense. That is not the correct thought at all.

2 Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.

The revealing of "that Wicked" coincides with the coming of "that Wicked" which is in accordance with "the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders". So, "that Wicked is revealed by the "power and signs and lying wonders" being done by Satan through him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think the parousia in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 might not be the Lord’s parousia but could be the parousia of “that Wicked”.

It has to be the Lord's parousia because it talks about "that Wicked" being destroyed by the brightness of His coming (parousia). That Wicked isn't going to be destroyed by the brightness of his own coming (parousia). That makes no sense.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

Who will the Lord "consume with the spirit of his mouth" That Wicked. Who will be destroyed? That Wicked. How? With the brightness of the Lord's coming.

 

[ewq1938]

Like I indicated per that on 2nd thought in that other post I made, you could be correct. The more I think about it though, the man of sin is revealed before Christ comes, but that it is His coming that destroys that Wicked. Instead of His coming reveals that Wicked.

Or the second coming reveals/unmasks the Ac as being a false god.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The "revealing" is tied directly to the return of Christ.

G601
apokalupto¯
Thayer Definition:
1) to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up
1a) disclose, make bare
2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G575 and G2572
Citing in TDNT: 3:563, 405

The man of sin is the Antichrist and will claim to be God as Paul writes. That is a lie and it is a veil which he covers himself with like a mask. To reveal him as the fraud he is is to unveil, and uncover and "disclose what before was unknown"

And that is specifically that he was not God but a fake, the man of sin merely lying about being God. Only the return of Christ makes that clear.



Matthew Henry

II. A revelation of that man of sin, that is (2Th_2:3), antichrist would take his rise from this general apostasy. The apostle afterwards speaks of the revelation of that wicked one (2Th_2:8), intimating the discovery which should be made of his wickedness, in order to his ruin

 

[Truth7t7]

The "revealing" is tied directly to the return of Christ.

The Lord Jesus Will Be Revealed In "Fire"

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[ewq1938]

The Lord Jesus Will Be Revealed In "Fire"

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

You know this is not "all" in the world so why do you still misuse this verse? It's pure dishonesty.

 

[Truth7t7]

You know this is not "all" in the world so why do you still misuse this verse? It's pure dishonesty.

You're In Pure Denial Of Biblical Truth Presented Below, When Jesus Returns Its "Fire Time" The End

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You know this is not "all" in the world so why do you still misuse this verse? It's pure dishonesty.

He's not misusing the verse. It shows how Jesus will come. He will bring destruction by way of fire when He comes which is taught in passages like 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 and that is why He compared His coming to what happened in Lot's day. His reason for also comparing His coming to what happened in Noah's day was to show that it will be all unbelievers in the world that are killed on that day. Peter made that same direct comparison in 2 Peter 3:6-7.