OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Jack]

Not if you are truly in it. However, one can seem (to other people, not to God) to be in it, bu doing things Christians do and saying things Christians say.

You're playing word games. Jesus meant what He said!

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

 

[GracePeace]

Not if you are truly in it. However, one can seem (to other people, not to God) to be in it, bu doing things Christians do and saying things Christians say.

Oops, Paul tells the Gentile believers (Ro 11) "the Jews were cut off for unbelief, and you stand by faith", then tells them they also can be "cut off" if they don't continue in the faith... so, did the Gentile believers Paul is addressing "trick" God into grafting them in (obviously, being grafted in to God's people, or being cut off, is something only God can do--and He cuts people off for unbelief, and grafts them in due to faith) in the first place?

 

[Christian Soldier]

That doesn't teach OSAS at all.

The scripture does teach that, but you can't interpret what the scripture is saying because God has not given you the gift of discernment. So His Word is foolishness to you, "the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing"

 

[Christian Soldier]

For your consideration : the more general categories of "Monergistic" and "Synergistic" may be more convenient, because they cover broader swathes, because "Arminian" is a subset of "Synergist", but the Orthodox and Roman Catholics are also
"Synergists", but I don't think they would call themselves "Arminian".

Just because someone doesn't admit to being an Arminian doesn't mean they aren't. Every professing Christian falls into one of these two categories,
you either embrace the man made "Arminian gospel" which teaches that salvation is a joint effort between God and man, or you embrace the the "Calvinist gospel" which teaches that salvation is all of the Lord God alone and man contributes precisely nothing to his salvation.

You can't claim to believe both gospel versions as they are mutually exclusive and diametrically opposed, so we are all forced to choose one of these two. Don't believe those liars who claim that a third option exists, nobody has ever found this mysterious non existent third gospel version

https://lionandlambapologetics.org/.../04/Calvinisn-and-Arminianism-TULIP-Chart.pdf

 

[AngelicArcher]

Seems like every Christian forum has a thread that condemns as heresy eternal security in Christ. Aka,OSAS.

Eternal Security is of Christ and his Gospel.

Heresy, comes from those false teachers who condemn it. No matter who they are or what institution they represent.

One verse, though there are many, gives assurance Jesus knew what he was talking about. And died to seal as his eternal covenant with us.

John 10:28-29 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Source: 17 Bible verses about Eternal Security


To God be the glory.

 

[Jack]

The scripture does teach that, but you can't interpret what the scripture is saying because God has not given you the gift of discernment. So His Word is foolishness to you, "the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing"

And you think your doctrine of HATRED will save you?

 

[Jack]

I see you have embraced the doctrine of Demons, which teaches you to add your own false narrative to what God has said. Where did God say "STRIVE to stay saved"??? ANSWER "NOWHERE" THAT IS A LIE FROM THE PITS OF HELL AND IT IS HIGHLY BLASPHEMPOUS!!!

I'll take Paul's Word over your doctrine of HATE any day.

 

[Jack]

It doesn't make sense to you because you are carnal , so you can't receive spiritual things. The natural man rejects the truth, because there is no truth in him.
Jesus said "you are of your father the Devil, and you do His will".

You said you HATE your parents. Why would I believe your doctrine of HATE?

 

[AngelicArcher]

And you think your doctrine of HATRED will save you?

Hatred?
They are correct.
You just proved it.
You don't recognize they were referring to 1 Corinthians 2.

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”But we have the mind of Christ.

And Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."

 

[Jack]

Hatred?
They are correct.
You just proved it.
You don't recognize they were referring to 1 Corinthians 2.

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”But we have the mind of Christ.

And Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."

So you approve of 'Christian Soldier's HATRED of his parents?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Seems like every Christian forum has a thread that condemns as heresy eternal security in Christ. Aka,OSAS.

Eternal Security is of Christ and his Gospel.

Heresy, comes from those false teachers who condemn it. No matter who they are or what institution they represent.

One verse, though there are many, gives assurance Jesus knew what he was talking about. And died to seal as his eternal covenant with us.

John 10:28-29 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Source: 17 Bible verses about Eternal Security


To God be the glory.

The reason most professing Christians reject the bible doctrine of "eternal security" (OSAS), is because they believe they are saved by their choice to accept Jesus as their savior.
So if at some point in their lives, they decide to reject Him and go back to living a life of sin, then they lose their salvation. The problem with that theory, is that the Bible clearly states that nobody ever seeks God and all have gone astray. It also says that we are born dead in our trespasses and sin, and that we are born bent towards serving our sin nature.

Why would anyone chose to accept Jesus as their savior, while they have a nature that only loves to sin. How can a spiritually dead man quicken himself to life and deny his nature to embrace what is against his nature. Everyone remains dead in his sin, unless God first quickens them to life and changes their nature so they can receive spiritual things.

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." This verse is a promise of God's faithfulness and a reminder to trust in His continued work in believers' lives.

 

[Christian Soldier]

And you think your doctrine of HATRED will save you?

If I hated you, I wouldn't share the truth of the gospel with you.

2 Corinthians 2:16 "But to the others we are a savor of death unto death; and to the others a savor of life unto life." This verse emphasizes that the message of the Gospel can be perceived differently by different people; it can be a source of life for some and a cause of death for others.

 

[Christian Soldier]

You said you HATE your parents. Why would I believe your doctrine of HATE?

I obey the commands of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm sorry to see you have a problem with me obeying the Lord. But I have no choice as His servant.

 

[Taken]

According to this documentary, OSAS originated with the Gnostics, was constantly being refuted by the early church, and was unknown in the Church until the 5th century when Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, a former Gnostic, brought it into the church.

00:01:36 "Believers in OSAS invariably take the high ground historically as though they're defending the historic faith. This is incredibly dishonest. That's because before Augustine's novel teachings in the early 5th century, absolutely no one in the early church believed in once saved always saved. I know of no patristic scholar or church historian who disputes that fact."

00:03:22 "The early church fathers actually warned against the idea of OSAS because that doctrine was not found within any Christian churches at the time; it was found among the Gnostics. ... in their refutations of the Gnostics, they would mention how these Gnostics believed that you could never fall away from the faith..."

Attempting to argue TWO Different Terms “AS IF” they mean the SAME THING, has historically established a CORRUPT debate that continues to this day.

OSAS is ABOUT…..SALVATION.
FALLING from FAITH is ABOUT….FAITH.

Salvation and Faith are NOT the Same Things.

A person CAN HAVE “FAITH”…
And Fall “FROM FAITH”.

A person can NOT HAVE “SALVATION” …
And Fall “FROM SALVATION”.

“HAVE” means “TO POSESS”.

FAITH is a Gift…FOR a person Hearing, Reading, Receiving, Believing; “THE WORD Of God”.
Nothing MAKES, FORCES, a man to Continue, hearing, reading, receiving, believing ; The WORD OF GOD”.

SALVATION is a Gift…FOR A person who opens his mouth with his own WORD (from the Thought, Belief IN his Heart, TO the Lord God, That he Believes).
In as much as the Lord God TEACHES mankind TO VERIFY, what the man “HEARS”, SO ALSO does the Lord God, VERIFY, what “HE” Hears!

The lord God “Searches a mans Heart” (which IS WHERE a human mans Natural “spirit”, ie. Natural TRUTH IS (opposed to the mans Carnal Minds Thoughts).
* And “IF” that mans Word Confessed Testimony BE True…
* “THEN” Does the Spirit of God “ENTER” WITH”IN” that man “And” ACCOMPLISH (the Lord Gods Works of “MAKING” that Mans SALVATION ESTABLISH-ED”.

“IF” … a man, any man…”KNOWS”…”ALL the “WORKS”, the Lord God DOES, TO “Establish” a mans Salvation, BE MADE Established”….a man, SHOULD also Know…
NEVER, does the Lord God SAY, TEACH, PREACH that a man “HAVING RECEIVED Salvation, Can thereafter, “LOSE his Gift OF Salvation.

As a matter “of FACT”, what the Lord God DOES, say, teach, preach…IS “HE”, “HIS Spirit”, “His Power”, dwells With-IN, that man, and “KEEPS”, that mans “SALVATION” …
“FOR that man, FOREVER”!

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

A man who would like to argue AGAINST (OSAS) … (Arguing Once a man IS Saved, “IS” subject to Losing his Salvation…)
Is essentially Arguing AGAINST God and Gods Power IN a man, Having Been Accomplished…MADE, “of God”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Cherry pickers everywhere!

Absolutely!
Everyone “Picks and chooses” what they believe, what they reject.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Absolutely!
Everyone “Picks and chooses” what they believe, what they reject.

I'm sure you would agree that the Holy bible is Gods Word, and as such we are not at liberty to "pick and choose" what we believe and what we reject.

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Deuteronomy 8:3 "And He humbled you and made you hungry, and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word of God."

The sad reality is that most professing Christians reject the Word of God as found in the Holy Bible, so they twist it and change it's meaning to make it acceptable to them.
The truth of the gospel is awful, as it reveals the true nature of man. We are all born dead in our trespasses and sin, we all inherited our sin nature from Adam and Eve and only God can regenerate us to life and give us a new nature. Nobody can do this for themselves, we are entierly dependant upon God to save us from the penalty our sin deserves.

 

[Taken]

I'm sure you would agree that the Holy bible is Gods Word, and as such we are not at liberty to "pick and choose" what we believe and what we reject.

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Deuteronomy 8:3 "And He humbled you and made you hungry, and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word of God."

The sad reality is that most professing Christians reject the Word of God as found in the Holy Bible, so they twist it and change it's meaning to make it acceptable to them.
The truth of the gospel is awful, as it reveals the true nature of man. We are all born dead in our trespasses and sin, we all inherited our sin nature from Adam and Eve and only God can regenerate us to life and give us a new nature. Nobody can do this for themselves, we are entierly dependant upon God to save us from the penalty our sin deserves.

To elaborate…

We, us, our, in context of individuals… All have FREEWILL Choice, to Believe or Reject as They “individually Elect”.

It IS that which an individual CHOOSES to “Believe or Reject”, which WILL “APPLY” to Them.

Blankety “I” Believe “ALL” Scripture “IS TRUE”.

Do “I” individually “Believe, Accept, Apply “ALL” Scripture TO ME, Individually? No.

Do “I” individually “Reject Applying” SOME Scripture “TO Me”? Yes.

Did I just, exercise “my” FREEWILL of Choice…”pick and choose”? Yes.

Is it TRUE a person can follow after Jesus? Yes.

Is it TRUE a person can follow after Satan?
Yes.

Is it TRUE an individuals “Choice” to Believe and follow Jesus IS Rejecting Satan…and Vise Versa? Yes.

Point is:
Good / Evil
Right / Wrong
Light / Dark
Up / Down
With / Without
Spiritual / Natural
“ARE ALL” Scriptural Truths…
An Individual “Freely Choosing” one, IS Rejecting the “opposing”. <—> picking and choosing

Glory to God,
Taken