OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Behold]

Romans 1 was cited.

Romans 8 was "cited"

You can figure out the rest.

Yeah, this verse only proves that when the Christian sins he is not abiding in Christ--if they were they wouldn't be condemned, as Ro 14:23 says.

Christians are not under the Law...therefore, any carnal deed they commit, is not judged by the Law or Commandments.

This means that the dominion of the Law is Gone.. because the Christian is "not under the law, but under Grace".

A Christian can be Jew or Gentile.. so, its the "Christian" who is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

So, "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".. against the law.

That simply means that whereas before the Law could define a Believer's carnality as "sin"......now it can't..........not ever again, if the person is a Born again Christian.

= "not under the LAW.. but under Grace".

Yup, the Jewish believers he was addressing needed to be taught about the Gospel,

Try to realize that Paul "is the apostle to the Gentiles" and his Local Assemblies, were mostly gentile believers.

You'll find them listed as His Epistles.

Even TIMOTHY.......( 1&2 Tim) was a Gentile.

 

[GracePeace]

op: God's ETERNAL Life is gnostic heresy?
Absolutely not! "What Saith The Scripture?":

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.

It's hard to believe any sincere person who has watched the video would answer this way.

Proverbs 18:13 If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.

 

[GracePeace]

Romans 8 was "cited"

Ro 8 isn't about unsaved people knowing right and wrong without having the Law, Ro 1 is. That's the issue at hand here.

Christians are not under the Law...therefore, any carnal deed they commit, is not judged by the Law or Commandments.

Why are they "condemned" (Ro 14:23) when they sin, then?

This means that the dominion of the Law is Gone.. because the Christian is "not under the law, but under Grace".

The Law was an ostensible means of service; the means of service under the New Covenant is the Spirit of Grace (eg, "newness of the Spirit").

A Christian can be Jew or Gentile.. so, its the "Christian" who is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

Yes... the Gentile believer isn't under Law, but, again, he never was. Gentiles are described as "without Law" in Ro 2 and in 1 Co 9.

So, "where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".. against the law.

Men died for their sins, and death reigned, irrespectively (in context of your citation), so what are you "proving"? That Christians can still be under God's wrath when they sin, even though they're not under Law? Why are you proving my point for me?

That simply means that whereas before the Law could define a Believer's carnality as "sin"......now it can't..........not ever again, if the person is a Born again Christian.

Nope (Ro 14:23).

Try to realize that Paul "is the apostle to the Gentiles" and his Local Assemblies, were mostly gentile believers.

Almost the entire letter of Romans was written to the Jewish believers in the Roman Church.

He often went first to the Jews, in their synagogues, and, after they'd rejected him, he'd go to the Gentiles.

Paul was not solely sent to the Gentiles. That is incorrect.

You'll find them listed as His Epistles.

Even TIMOTHY.......( 1&2 Tim) was a Gentile.

No, Timothy wasn't a Gentile, his mother was a Jewess, and Paul had Timothy circumcised, whereas he would not tolerate circumcision for Gentile believers.

You don't know what you are saying.

 

[Behold]

Ro 8 isn't about unsaved people knowing right and wrong without having the Law, Ro 1 is. That's the issue at hand here.

Romans 8 says that for the Christian.......Jew or Gentile, as "all are one in Christ"......there is "now no condemnation"

= no longer Condemned

Why not?

"where there is no law, there is no Sin found"

A.) The Born again....(Jew or Gentile) are "not under the Law, but under Grace".

CHRISTians, are "under Grace".. no matter if they are Jew or Gentile.

Why are they "condemned" (Ro 14:23) when they sin, then?

That is in THEIR Own MIND.....

"feelings of condemnation".

That is the feeling some believers have..........of "GUILT" when they do something wrong...

Im certain you've felt this inner condemnation before when you believe you have sinned.


Remember.......... that God condemned Jesus, on the Cross, for the sin of us all.

That Christians can still be under God's wrath when they sin, even though they're not under Law? Why are you proving my point for me?

The Wrath of God is the Cross of Christ....where Jesus took upon Himself = God's Wrath against SIN.

See, Jesus paid for the "sin of the world'.. already.......... = one believer at a time.

Nope (Ro 14:23).

Almost the entire letter of Romans was written to the Jewish believers in the Roman Church.

That's only one epistle.
Did you know there are 12 more?

Paul wrote 13 Epistles, and is the "Apostle to the Gentiles"..

Check out all the other Letters (Epistles) wrtten to the non-Jews, by Paul.

He often went first to the Jews, in their synagogues, and, after they'd rejected him, he'd go to the Gentiles.

Jewish synagogues....are not found as one of Paul's Epistles......

His Epistles, were mostly written as instructions to the Local CHRISTian Assemblies that Paul started. (mostly Gentiles).

Titus and Timothy were Paul's converts., as was Demas.

Paul often had Luke with Him.. (The Gospel of LUKE).. and its very likely that Luke was a Gentile.

Paul was not solely sent to the Gentiles. That is incorrect.

Ive not posted that Paul was "solely sent to the Jews"..

So, be honest, and dont "make stuff up"... as then i'll be more convinced of your carnality.

I posted the verse for you...>>"Aposte to the Gentiles".. and since you've never read it.....let me show you what Paul said..

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry

New Living Translation
I am saying all this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. I stress this,

English Standard Version
Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry

Berean Standard Bible
I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry

Berean Literal Bible
Now I am speaking to you the Gentiles. Therefore indeed inasmuch as I am apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

King James Bible
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

New King James Version
For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

New American Standard Bible
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Therefore insofar as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry

NASB 1995
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

NASB 1977
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

Legacy Standard Bible
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

No, Timothy wasn't a Gentile, his mother was a Jewess, and Paul had Timothy circumcised, whereas he would not tolerate circumcision for Gentile believers.

I dont think you will understand this, but you can read it..

Acts 16:3. : Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a GREEK.

(A Greek is a Gentile).
(now you know).

However, In case you dont understand this, then note that in the Bible... Jews are Circumcised, and Timothy was not.


See if you can figure that out @GracePeace .

 

[GracePeace]

Romans 8 says that for the Christian.......Jew or Gentile, as "all are one in Christ"......there is "now no condemnation"

That wasn't the issue bring discussed. You tried proving that man's knowledge that murder was wrong proved they had been given or put under Law. Ro 1 debunks that. Also, both Ro 2 and 1 Co 9 distinguish the lost Gentiles as "without the Law" (contrasted against Jews who are under Law).

Also, your own go-to passage for "proving" "we can't be condemned bc we're not under Law" shows you that the Gentiles aren't under Law, and that wasn't how they found out murder was bad.

It's ancillary anyway--ie, Gentiles aren't under Law, but, then again, they never were.

= no loner Condemned

Why not?

"where there is no law, there is no Sin found"

A.) The Born again....(Jew or Gentile) are "not under the Law, but under Grace".

CHRISTians, are "under Grace".. no matter if they are Jew or Gentile.



That is in THEIR Own MIND.....

"feelings of condemnation".

That is the feeling some believers have..........of "GUILT" when they do something wrong...

Im certain you've felt this inner condemnation before when you believe you have sinned.


Remember.......... that God condemned Jesus, on the Cross, for the sin of us all.

I'll just agree with the text--they sinned and they are condemned.

No "feeling".
No "their own mind".

I prefer to read the text for what it says without adding or removing words.

It would seem impossible to disprove anything you say using any verse, because you apparently allow yourself the liberty of adding to or removing words so that the verse "neatly" fits into your paradigm.

The Wrath of God is the Cross of Christ....where Jesus took upon Himself = God's Wrath against SIN.

See, Jesus paid for the "sin of the world'.. already.......... = one believer at a time.

The passage you cited actually proves that men can be under God's wrath even in the absence of the Law.

That's only one epistle.
Did you know there are 12 more?

Paul wrote 13 Epistles, and is the "Apostle to the Gentiles"..

Check out all the other Letters (Epistles) wrtten to the non-Jews, by Paul.

Well, the point is I don't believe Paul went solely to Gentiles.

Jewish synagogues....are not found as one of Paul's Epistles......

His Epistles, were mostly written as instructions to the Local CHRISTian Assemblies that Paul started. (mostly Gentiles).

Irrespectively, he didn't go solely to the Gentiles. That is a common misunderstanding I find around these parts.

Titus and Timothy were Paul's converts., as was Demas.

Paul often had Luke with Him.. (The Gospel of LUKE).. and its very likely that Luke was a Gentile.

And? Timothy was a Jew.
You denied that.
You aren't acquainted with the material we're discussing.

Ive not posted that Paul was "solely sent to the Jews"..

I didn't say you said that.
Rather, you make it sound like he was sent to the Gentiles only.

So, be honest, and dont "make stuff up"... as then i'll be more convinced of your carnality.

I am carnal. Not by choice. I just don't understand Christianity.

I posted the verse for you...>>"Aposte to the Gentiles".. and since you've never read it.....let me show you what Paul said..

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry

Yes, he says "Now I am speaking to you Gentiles", because almost the entire time before he was addressing the Jewish believers, and now finally he is addressing the Gentile believers.

New Living Translation
I am saying all this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. I stress this,

English Standard Version
Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry

Berean Standard Bible
I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry

Berean Literal Bible
Now I am speaking to you the Gentiles. Therefore indeed inasmuch as I am apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

King James Bible
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

New King James Version
For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

New American Standard Bible
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Therefore insofar as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry

NASB 1995
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

NASB 1977
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

Legacy Standard Bible
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,


I dont think you will understand this, but you can read it..

Acts 16:3. : Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a GREEK.

(A Greek is a Gentile).
(now you know).

However, In case you dont understand this, then note that in the Bible... Jews are Circumcised, and Timothy was not.

Acts 16:1: "A disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek"

2 Tim. 1:5: Timothy's mother was Eunice, a godly Jewish woman.

The reason Timothy hadn't been circumcised, despite being Jewish was BECAUSE of his Greek father.

Again, you are way in over your head--and we're still in the shallow end of the pool.

See if you can figure that out @GracePeace .

You don't have a clue what you're talking about--from beginning to end.

You don't know the material, and you can't arrive at a single coherent conclusion.

 

[Behold]

That wasn't the issue bring discussed. You tried proving that man's knowledge that murder was wrong proved they had been given or put under Law.

Actually, you suggested that people always know what they are doing is wrong... if its sinful.

And that is not the case.......

Sinner's do not feel guilt, when they sin......for the most part. They just feel Lust.

However, They do feel bad about it, if they get caught.....but that is not quite the same as being sorry, for being immoral.

Also, your own go-to passage for "proving" "we can't be condemned bc we're not under Law" shows you that the Gentiles aren't under Law, and that wasn't how they found out murder was bad.

In Christianity, there is no Jew or Gentile.....as all are : "one in Christ"..

So, when the Christian feels bad about some personal behavior, its usually the 10 Commandments (that are also of Moses), that stings their conscience,.

This is to be "under" that situation.........and once the Believer (Jew or Gentile) comes to understand that "In Christ there is no condemnation""". (Romans 8)..... then at that point they are finally understanding that they are "not under the Law but under Grace".

I'll just agree with the text--they sinned and they are condemned.

See, when all you can do is read the bible, as if its a box of cereal, then you end up.....not discerning the verses.
Verses in a Bible have to be "Spiritually Discerned" not just read, as when you just read them. .then That is what causes heresy within your Theology. @GracePeace

So, no one is Condemned who is "in Christ" as there is no Law or 10 Commandmentsz found there, to condemn them.

Now.... You are not going to understand this.. as you are not able to understand what it means for the Christian to have become..........

A.) "Not under the Law, but under Grace".......as "The Righteousness of God in Christ" who is "the New Creation".
However its probable that others who will read what ive shown you, will be able to see it for themselves, if they are born again.

So, mission accomplished.

===========================================================================================

Ok then.

-Happy new year.

 

[GracePeace]

Actually, you suggested that people always know what they are doing is wrong... if its sinful.

And that is not the case.......

Actually, the issue was whether the Gentiles had derived "do not murder" from the Law.

I simply denied that, and cited Romans 1 as my proof. I also showed from Ro 2 and 1 Co 9 that the Gentiles are alwayse described as being "without the Law".

You haven't answered any of that.

Sinner's do not feel guilt, when they sin......for the most part. They just feel Lust.
However, They do feel bad about it, if they get caught.....but that is not quite the same as being sorry, for being immoral

Romans 7, which depicts the Jew "in the flesh" (Ro 7:5)--but belevers aren't "in the flesh" but are "in the spirit" (Ro 8:9)--and "under Law", being "mastered by Sin" (Ro 6:14), debunks this.

In Christianity, there is no Jew or Gentile.....as all are : "one in Christ"..

Irrespectively, the Gentile is always described as "without Law", so, no, they didn't learn murder was wrong (and they do know it, but you have refused to respond to Ro 1) from the Law.

So, when the Christian feels bad about some personal behavior, its usually the 10 Commandments (that are also of Moses), that stings their conscience,.

This is debunked in Romans 14, which says anything that is done with doubt, not with faith, is sin and the Christian is condemned.

This is to be "under" that situation

No, "under" means "under jurisdiction"--and since Paul is describing NT rules for Christians, he is describing how being "under Grace" looks like.

........and once the Believer (Jew or Gentile) comes to understand that "In Christ there is no condemnation""". (Romans 8)..... then at that point they are finally understanding that they are "not under the Law but under Grace".

No, the "no condemnation" is for those "in Christ", and some do not abide "in Christ", wherefore, they become subject to condemnation, as has been being pointed out to you in Ro 14:23.

See, when all you can do is read the bible, as if its a box of cereal, then you end up.....not discerning the verses.
Verses in a Bible have to be "Spiritually Discerned" not just read, as when you just read them. .then That is what causes heresy within your Theology. @GracePeace

You don't have any issue with adding to or removing words from Scripture (eg, "it's just in their mind or they just feel condemned when they sin, it's not really a real condemnation before God").
Duly noted.
This you call "spiritual discernment".
Here I thought the Spirit inspired the text, and it is spiritual to follow the Spirit inspired text, but I am learning from you that I can just go ahead and change what the Spirit wrote, and call it "spiritual discernment", and "spiritual", and that makes all my adulterations OK.

"Interesting'.

So, no one is Condemned who is "in Christ" as there is no Law or 10 Commandmentsz found there, to condemn them.

Those who abide in Him aren't condemned; those who don't abide in Him are condemned. It's not difficult to understand.

Now.... You are not going to understand this.. as you are not able to understand what it means for the Christian to have become..........

A.) "Not under the Law, but under Grace".......as "The Righteousness of God in Christ" who is "the New Creation".
However its probable that others who will read what ive shown you, will be able to see it for themselves, if they are born again.

So, mission accomplished.

===========================================================================================

Ok then.

-Happy new year.

Not all abide in Him. It's simple.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Absolutely Disagree.
Predestination…is Simply …God KNOWS and Has PREPARED a PLACE….for Every individuals Final Destiny….

Just because one person doesn't understand the question and answer technique it doesn't mean that technique is wrong and shouldn't used.

Likewise, just because one person doesn't know the difference between Divine Predestination which follows on from Divine Foreknowledge, and the false doctrine of Predestined Reprobation, that doesn't mean there is no distinction between them.

From my Notes:

The difference between Divine Predestination which follows on from Divine Foreknowledge, and the false doctrine of Predestined Reprobation.

These theological concepts are indeed intricate and deeply impactful within Christian doctrine. Here's a breakdown:

Divine Predestination and Divine Foreknowledge​

• Divine Foreknowledge: This concept holds that God, being omniscient, knows everything that will happen, including who will choose to follow Him and who will not. His foreknowledge does not cause events to happen but simply sees them in advance.
• Divine Predestination: According to this doctrine, God has predestined or preordained certain individuals to salvation. This is based on His foreknowledge of their choices and actions. Essentially, God knows in advance who will respond to His grace and accept salvation, and thus predestines them to eternal life. This is supported by passages like Romans 8:29-30: "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son..."

Predestined Reprobation​

• Predestined Reprobation: This controversial doctrine suggests that God has also predestined certain individuals to damnation. It implies that God has preordained some people to be eternally condemned without consideration of their choices or actions. This view is often seen as inconsistent with the character of a just and loving God and is generally rejected by mainstream Christian theology.

Key Differences​

1. Basis of Predestination:
   • Divine Predestination: Centers on God's foreknowledge and the free choices of individuals. God predestines individuals to salvation based on His prior knowledge of their faith and response to His grace.
   • Predestined Reprobation: Implies a deterministic approach where God preordains individuals to condemnation without regard to their personal choices or actions.
2. Theological Implications:
   • Divine Predestination: Aligns with the concepts of God's love, justice, and human free will. It maintains that God desires all to be saved and works through human choices.
   • Predestined Reprobation: Often criticized for portraying God as unjust or unloving, as it suggests people are condemned without any opportunity for repentance or salvation.
3. Scriptural Support:
   • Divine Predestination: Supported by passages emphasizing God's foreknowledge and desire for all to be saved, such as 2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise...not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
   • Predestined Reprobation: Generally lacks strong biblical support and is often seen as conflicting with the broader biblical narrative of God's redemptive love and justice.

In summary, Divine Predestination aligns with God's foreknowledge and human free will, emphasizing God's desire for all to be saved. In contrast, Predestined Reprobation, often considered a false doctrine, suggests a deterministic approach to condemnation, which conflicts with the character of a just and loving God.

 

[Taken]

Just because one person doesn't understand the question and answer technique it doesn't mean that technique is wrong and shouldn't used.

Likewise, just because one person doesn't know the difference between Divine Predestination which follows on from Divine Foreknowledge, and the false doctrine of Predestined Reprobation, that doesn't mean there is no distinction between them.

From my Notes:

The difference between Divine Predestination which follows on from Divine Foreknowledge, and the false doctrine of Predestined Reprobation.

These theological concepts are indeed intricate and deeply impactful within Christian doctrine. Here's a breakdown:

Divine Predestination and Divine Foreknowledge​

• Divine Foreknowledge: This concept holds that God, being omniscient, knows everything that will happen, including who will choose to follow Him and who will not. His foreknowledge does not cause events to happen but simply sees them in advance.
• Divine Predestination: According to this doctrine, God has predestined or preordained certain individuals to salvation. This is based on His foreknowledge of their choices and actions. Essentially, God knows in advance who will respond to His grace and accept salvation, and thus predestines them to eternal life. This is supported by passages like Romans 8:29-30: "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son..."

Predestined Reprobation​

• Predestined Reprobation: This controversial doctrine suggests that God has also predestined certain individuals to damnation. It implies that God has preordained some people to be eternally condemned without consideration of their choices or actions. This view is often seen as inconsistent with the character of a just and loving God and is generally rejected by mainstream Christian theology.

Key Differences​

1. Basis of Predestination:
   • Divine Predestination: Centers on God's foreknowledge and the free choices of individuals. God predestines individuals to salvation based on His prior knowledge of their faith and response to His grace.
   • Predestined Reprobation: Implies a deterministic approach where God preordains individuals to condemnation without regard to their personal choices or actions.
2. Theological Implications:
   • Divine Predestination: Aligns with the concepts of God's love, justice, and human free will. It maintains that God desires all to be saved and works through human choices.
   • Predestined Reprobation: Often criticized for portraying God as unjust or unloving, as it suggests people are condemned without any opportunity for repentance or salvation.
3. Scriptural Support:
   • Divine Predestination: Supported by passages emphasizing God's foreknowledge and desire for all to be saved, such as 2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise...not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
   • Predestined Reprobation: Generally lacks strong biblical support and is often seen as conflicting with the broader biblical narrative of God's redemptive love and justice.

In summary, Divine Predestination aligns with God's foreknowledge and human free will, emphasizing God's desire for all to be saved. In contrast, Predestined Reprobation, often considered a false doctrine, suggests a deterministic approach to condemnation, which conflicts with the character of a just and loving God.

Thanks for sharing…
Personally … I don’t subscribe to Fancy psychology and words to simply Know and understand….
God IS all knowing…human men are Not…
(if human men choose to have a hissy fit, because God knows and has prepared every man’s destiny…doesn’t Cause me concern).

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

I simply denied that, and cited Romans 1 as my proof.

Yes, we understand that that is your proof, according to you.
And that is what you believe.

However. here is what you need to consider.

= When you teach that the Gentiles are not under the Law, then you are not understanding something that is very obvious.

Now, you are a gentile.
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

 

[Taken]

Yes, we understand that that is your proof, according to you.
And that is what you believe.

However. here is what you need to consider.

= When you teach that the Gentiles are not under the Law, then you are not understanding something that is very obvious.

Now, you are a gentile.
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

Disagree Gentiles …
we’re Given…the Law
or Gentiles agreed…to obey the Law.

I believe:
Hebrews were Offered the Law…
Hebrews agreed to obey the Law.
Hebrews had Protocols for forgiveness for failures to obey the Laws.
Hebrews also Had Precepts for Behaviors among men…and Protocols for Forgivenesses for Trespass Among men.
ISRAEL Had and accepted the same options.

Jesus Fulfilled the Law.
Jesus did not Destroy the Law.
ISRAEL electing to continue Obeying the Law, Have that Option..( without the ability to Atone for their violations committed Against the Law.)

Jesus provided an Offering TO…ISRAEL and GENTILES…
A new better testament…

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

An Offering …OF ETERNAL LIFE …

By, through, of the GRACE of God…
By, through, of Christ Jesus…

For: ONCE and FOREVER…
For: an individual to Freely Accept / Take OR Not…

OF: atoned forgiveness, body cleansing, light covering, soul restoration, spirit quickening, salvation, Gods in/dwelt Seed, Truth, Spirit, Power…Justification to Be Sealed unto God, Redeemed by Christ, Given a new name. Marked with Gods Name, Occupy the Promised Land, occupy Forever The new Earth Forever With God and See the Lord God AS He is.
*Two Laws Kept unto the man by the Power of God…
1) Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
2) Love thy neighbour as thyself.

*Precepts are the individuals responsibility, with Gods guidance, Indwelling support.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

Disagree Gentiles …
we’re Given…the Law

Yes, Gentiles are under the law.
Everyone is, until they are born again.

GracePeace <<< .......... teaches that only the Jews are under the Law, and not the gentiles.

 

[Taken]

Yes, Gentiles are under the law.
Everyone is, until they are born again.

Disagree.

You are making a presumption Everyone is “automatically” (by being naturally born …Are “under”. ( ie…”subject to” obedience to the law)

If that were the Case, why was it necessary for the people (Hebrews) to AGREE to abide by the Law ? (which they did)

The OT Law was not given me, nor did I Agree to Abide by the OT law.

You by your Residency agree to abide by your State Laws…and if traveling to another State in your vehicle, you are agreeing to abide by Particular Laws (not all) of that State…for example…hi-way laws….or purchasing a license if you wish to fish or hunt , or pay State taxes if you wish to buy products, etc.
if traveling to another country…. Same applies…that they may require You be given permission to enter their country…

GracePeace <<< .......... teaches that only the Jews are under the Law, and not the gentiles.

I agree with GP’s point.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, we understand that that is your proof, according to you.
And that is what you believe
However. here is what you need to consider.

= When you teach that the Gentiles are not under the Law, then you are not understanding something that is very obvious.

Now, you are a gentile.
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

Are you disputing it?

Why not address the text if so?


Speaking about the idolatrous nations, who know God NOT by special revelation, but by general revelation (vv17+), he explains, "32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


So in this case he refers to people who know God from His creation, and are without excuse, and somehow intuitively know the ordinance of God, that the death penalty is fitting for their sins.


Since you haven't addressed them, I will write the verses that contrast Gentiles as "without Law" against Jews who are "under Law" :


Romans 2:12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law


1 Co 9:20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.


So, you must affirm there is a group that exists that differs from the Jews--ie, the Jews are "under Law", and this other group is "without Law".

Pray tell, who is this group "without Law" that is not Jewish--that still knows God by His creation, instead of by special revelation (eg, at Sinai), and still knows His ordinances without/not possessing the Law (Ro 2:14)?

It's not my fault the Bible doesn't let us get away with overgeneralizations such as yours.

 

[Behold]

Are you disputing it?

Now, you are a gentile....
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

 

[GracePeace]

Now, you are a gentile....
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

1 I don't know if I am a Gentile, bc we come from theJews who fled Iberia, and my grandmother told me her grandfather told her, on his deathbed, his secret that he was a Jew (it had to be kept secret back then in that place).

2. If you want to dispute what I've claimed from Scripture, the Scriptures are there--changing the topic, or ignoring my arguments, is not the way to address my points (obviously).

 

[GracePeace]

Now, you are a gentile....
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

Romans 5
13For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14NEVERTHELESS, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come.

Therefore, as stated, with or without the Law, sin was in the world, and even over those who did not commit Transgression, bc they didn't have the Law, death reigned even over those who did not sin as Adam (ie, did not "transgress") : this would only prove that Christians , who are not under Law, can also be subjected to death if they sin, which is my view, not yours.

 

[GracePeace]

Now, you are a gentile....
Correct?
And you are actually a Christian, and not just a water baptized and religious fakir?
Is that true?

So, then.. when you went To God through Christ.. you were forgiven what?

A.) You were forgiven your Sin.

Now, what defined your carnal deeds as SIN, before God?

It was the LAW that defined your Gentile behavior, as SIN, that needed to be FORGIVEN.

So, why did Moses's Law and 10 Commandments, given to JEWS.. .define your works of the flesh as SIN, that needed to be forgiven, so that you could become a Christian @GracePeace ?

Its because you were under the Law, and if you are now actually a Christian, then "you are not under the Law, but under GRACE".

I deny that all men were under Law before grace. The reason is Paul describes two groups of people : those under Law, and those without Law. I have shown you the Scriptures to this effect, and I await even the recognition of this fact, and, from there, I will await an actual justification for why you insist on denying these things that have been made plain to you, and why you persist in your vain claims to the contrary of Scripture.

 

[Behold]

2. If you want to dispute what I've claimed from Scripture, the Scriptures are there--changing the topic,

Posting verses is nothing more then that... and a lot of people come to forums to post verses, and then say.>>"i posted verses".

= "Proved it'.... "I win".... "I posted 900 verses and yet i can't teach one of them, but that doesn't matter as its whoever posts the most verses is the winner".... "isn't that the Forum rule"???

So...See that issue?
A lot of people on forums have that issue..they have this misunderstanding that "posting verses proves it".

Its actually doesnt'
It only proves you can post verses.

So, here is what we know.
Jew or Gentile...when we first come to Jesus, He is there so shed his Blood for us, because our SIN has to be forgiven.

And only The Law and Commandments define "sin"., and define everyone <> Jew or Gentile as a "sinner"

 

[GracePeace]

Posting verses is nothing more then that... and a lot of people come to forums to post verses, and then say.>>"i posted verses".

= "Proved it'.... "I win".... "I posted 900 verses and yet i can't teach one of them, but that doesn't matter as its whoever posts the most verses is the winner".... "isn't that the Forum rule"???

So...See that issue?
A lot of people on forums have that issue..they have this misunderstanding that "posting verses proves it".

Its actually doesnt'
It only proves you can post verses.

So, here is what we know.
Jew or Gentile...when we first come to Jesus, He is there so shed his Blood for us, because our SIN has to be forgiven.

And only The Law and Commandments define "sin"., and define everyone <> Jew or Gentile as a "sinner"

You haven't addressed anything I've said, you've merely done what you've claimed I've done--ie, posted your cherry-picked verses and shared your anti-Scriptural thoughts. What I have done is I have met your claims head-on, and what you have done is you have refused to address my objections. I can't control you and make you have an on-topic discussion. If you choose to pretend to answer me without answering me, what can I do about that? Nothing. The discussion just devolves.