OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[JunChosen]

TO ALL WHO OPPOSES OSAS,

Many of you if not all, who opposes the doctrine of OSAS, fail to understand Bible doctrines and its interpretations!! Hence, not understanding the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved."

I'm not going to write a long post just a question or two and answer them, and along with some Scripture passages to clarify the reasons I believe that "once saved always saved" is taught in Scripture.

Question, "When Jesus went to the cross, how many of your sins did He saved you from?"
Answer: "ALL." (Matthew 1:21).

If Jesus saved "ALL" of your sins, question: "what sin can you then commit that will put you in hell??" NONE, ZILCH, NADA!!

John 10:26-30 reads:
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

"Once Saved Always Saved" Is a true statement!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Are you saying that a baby is born a sinner....
or that we all BECAME, at some point, sinners due to the AFFECT of original sin?
(the sin nature).

1 Corinthians 15:21-22 reads:
21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Adam and Eve's creation is different from that of mankind in that, Adam and Eve were created "good" that is, without sin. But when Adam and Eve, as progenitors of mankind disobeyed God, thus sin entered the world and passed on through to mankind (original sin).

Psalms 58:3-8 reads:
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison [is] like the poison of a serpent: [they are] like the deaf adder [that] stoppeth her ear;
5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.
6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD.
7 Let them melt away as waters [which] run continually: [when] he bendeth [his bow to shoot] his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.
8 As a snail [which] melteth, let [every one of them] pass away: [like] the untimely birth of a woman, [that] they may not see the sun.

To God Be The Glory

 

[GracePeace]

There is an obvious fatal flaw in their interpretation. They have no problem will "all" being UNconditionally made sinners in Adam for that fits their wrong theology but they do have a problem with the same "all" being made UNconditionally righteous.

Nope, no flaw : we are unconditionally righteous, but not all walk in that unconditional righteousness (eg, the "lazy" servant, who does not walk in the gift of righteousness Mt 25).

What is true about Adam is true about Christ...if all are Unconditionally made sinners in Adam then it's equally true all are unconditionally made righteous in Christ

Nope, those BORN OF Adam are all unconditionally sinful by nature (it's just a question of whether they ADMIT they are slaves to sin or not--the Samaritan woman had a very different reaction than the Jews in Jn 8 to being told they were sinners!), and those BORN OF Christ are all unconditionally righteous by nature (it's just a question of whether they walk in their new nature or not--sin forces, but God does not force).

 

[GracePeace]

I think the other member is getting confused about being born with the sin nature and being born already having sin.
We are born with the proclivity toward sin....
however, when a baby is born, he is NOT A SINNER...
yet.

Age of accountability comes into play.

The baby is born with the body of sin, but his conscience is not yet stained, so he is not yet dead, it seems (Paul says he was once alive but when the commandment came--at the age of accountability, children become ashamed of their nakedness, as Adam and Eve after eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil--he died) but the baby will die in due time because the body of sin has a mind of its own and produces sin which defiles kills and enslaves the inward man.

 

[GracePeace]

TO ALL WHO OPPOSES OSAS,

Many of you if not all, who opposes the doctrine of OSAS, fail to understand Bible doctrines and its interpretations!! Hence, not understanding the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved."

I'm not going to write a long post just a question or two and answer them, and along with some Scripture passages to clarify the reasons I believe that "once saved always saved" is taught in Scripture.

Question, "When Jesus went to the cross, how many of your sins did He saved you from?"
Answer: "ALL." (Matthew 1:21).

If Jesus saved "ALL" of your sins, question: "what sin can you then commit that will put you in hell??" NONE, ZILCH, NADA!!

John 10:26-30 reads:
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

"Once Saved Always Saved" Is a true statement!!

To God Be The Glory

Nope, the same Christ says branches that don't abide in Him don't bear fruit (apart from Him we can do nothing), so the Father cuts them off, and they dry up, and they are thrown in the fire.

Moreover, I invite you to answer Matthew 18, where God rescinds His forgiveness from the unforgiving servant : obviously, the guy had the righteousness of faith (which is being forgiven according to Ro 4:6-8), but, afterward, he no longer has the righteousness of faith, because his sins return and are no longer forgotten. God says He forgets righteousness (Ez 18:24), so the servant's "righteousness of faith" is forgotten, and his sins are no longer forgiven. He's blotted out of the Book of Life.

 

[GracePeace]

Are you saying that a baby is born a sinner....
or that we all BECAME, at some point, sinners due to the AFFECT of original sin?
(the sin nature).

The baby is born with the body of sin, and the baby behaves very self-centeredly, but the baby is unaware, and the conscience undefiled, until he knows good and evil and dies inwardly when his conscience is defiled by the works he is being enslaved to by the works produced by the body of sin. Christ offers us entrance into a new body, a body in which there are righteous impulses, the body of Christ--"in Christ" and "not in the flesh, but in the spirit" refer to this reality.

 

[GracePeace]

There is an obvious fatal flaw in their interpretation. They have no problem will "all" being UNconditionally made sinners in Adam for that fits their wrong theology but they do have a problem with the same "all" being made UNconditionally righteous.

What is true about Adam is true about Christ...if all are Unconditionally made sinners in Adam then it's equally true all are unconditionally made righteous in Christ

Remember the Law says once an earthen vessel is defiled, it (unlike metal vessels) cannot be cleansed, but must be destroyed : the body is made of clay, and has been irrevocably defiled, and must be destroyed, and it is destroyed when we believe in Christ, because we share in His death.

 

[GracePeace]

There is an obvious fatal flaw in their interpretation. They have no problem will "all" being UNconditionally made sinners in Adam for that fits their wrong theology but they do have a problem with the same "all" being made UNconditionally righteous.

In Romans 7, Paul talks about this reality--how Paul worked works he didn't work but that were worked in him by sin itself. That is the condition all those born into Adam are born into.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think the other member is getting confused about being born with the sin nature and being born already having sin.
We are born with the proclivity toward sin....
however, when a baby is born, he is NOT A SINNER...
yet.

Age of accountability comes into play.

true

But he is in adam, hence he is dead.

In Adam all die

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The baby is born with the body of sin, but his conscience is not yet stained, so he is not yet dead, it seems (Paul says he was once alive but when the commandment came--at the age of accountability, children become ashamed of their nakedness, as Adam and Eve after eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil--he died) but the baby will die in due time because the body of sin has a mind of its own and produces sin which defiles kills and enslaves the inward man.

He is still dead.

I am not sure what you mean by his conscious is not stained.

Death is separation. That baby is separated by God. because he or she is "in Adam"

 

[Taken]

OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

False.

Once a man IS saved…he IS saved Forever.
Unless your god IS A LIAR.

Glory to God…Faithful and True,

Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

true

But he is in adam, hence he is dead.

In Adam all die

Are you talking about the baby?
What do you mean he is dead?
Are you saying that if a baby dies he goes to hell?

(or do you mean the other member is in Adam??
I'm confused).

 

[Taken]

…when a baby is born, he is NOT A SINNER...
yet.

False.

Glory to God, His Truth prevails.
Taken

 

[Johann]

Think you guys need to listen to this re "original sin" and hopefully not lean to the Augustine worldview.

 

[GracePeace]

OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

Historical fact. Unchangeable rock solid foundational reality. Take it to the bank.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In Romans 7, Paul talks about this reality--how Paul worked works he didn't work but that were worked in him by sin itself. That is the condition all those born into Adam are born into.

remember, In romans 7 Paul is speaking of his current situation. the war between the flesh and spirit we all go through on a daily basis

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you talking about the baby?

Yes

What do you mean he is dead?

Again, Death means separation. That baby is separated from God. Many use this term, there is a barrier between God and this barrier.

Are you saying that if a baby dies he goes to hell?

I am not firm on this,, I have heard differing stories. I will be honest, I do not know.. But that does not negate the fact that he is in adam, Thus technically, he is dead.

(or do you mean the other member is in Adam??
I'm confused).

Other member?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Historical fact. Unchangeable rock solid foundational reality. Take it to the bank.

lol..

Yet Jesus taught eternal life.

so it is not a nostic heresy.

But legalism, is a heresy that has been around since cain first tried to use human Good to get into Gods favor..

 

[Taken]

Historical fact. Unchangeable rock solid foundational reality. Take it to the bank.

Now, now…come to the truth…No where does Gods Word TEACH God saves a mans soul…then “Unsaves” that same mans soul.

Do you not comprehend a man can NOT fool the ALL KNOWING God? That God could be played a FOOL and GIVE any unworthy man His Gift of Salvation?

FYI…the banks are full of fiat currency, backed by nothing of value.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

The baby is born with the body of sin, but his conscience is not yet stained, so he is not yet dead, it seems (Paul says he was once alive but when the commandment came--at the age of accountability, children become ashamed of their nakedness, as Adam and Eve after eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil--he died) but the baby will die in due time because the body of sin has a mind of its own and produces sin which defiles kills and enslaves the inward man.

I agree with you but your language is very different from the norm.
By the body of sin, I think you mean the sin nature - or, the tendency toward sin -or, the stain of original sin.

"He is not yet dead", I think you mean that the baby is spiritually alive but will become dead at the time of the age of accountability when he's aware of what he's is doing and trangreses against God.