OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[GodsGrace]

Right, I'd assume his answer would be the same we've heard a million times from Calvinists : Jesus died for the sins of His people, and if you believe, you will be saved by God, which would prove that you were foreknown and predestined by God to be saved, and God will never lose you, but keep you (because He doesn't lack power, and intends to save you), and you are secure forever.

Of course....
and so....
THERE IS NO GOOD NEWS!

 

[GracePeace]

Of course....
and so....
THERE IS NO GOOD NEWS!

I mean, it's good news, it's just, like, slightly skewed, but I wouldn't call it "damnable"--obviously, they're saved, and they have grace, and aim to please God, and have confidence in God, they just don't have every detail correct.

My gripe with them is I don't appreciate them not having answers for my Biblical questions, and, instead, trying to get me to agree with their inaccurate gobbledygook. By God's grace, I could never allow my mind to fall into such incoherent insanity.

 

[GodsGrace]

I mean, it's good news, it's just, like, slightly skewed, but I wouldn't call it "damnable"-

Actually GP, there is NO good news in the Calvinist gospel.
Jesus came from heaven to teach us HOW to get to heaven.
To show us HOW God predestined from the very beginning how He would allow us into heaven.
God knew that Adam would fail and so made provision for that failure.

Calvinists believe that God CAUSED Adam to fail.
That is damnable. That is more than slightly skewed.
Calvinists change the nature of God. That is more than slightly skewed.

The gospel is the good news that Jesus which is that everyone has the possibility of being saved.
The teaching is that IF we BELIEVE then we will be saved.
Calvinists believe that it's GOD that FORCES us to believe through irresistible grace, and that is not slightly skewed.
That is the antithesis to what the good news teaches.

obviously, they're saved, and they have grace, and aim to please God, and have confidence in God, they just don't have every detail correct.

I agree with you until the last few words.
Every detail?

They believe God is
UNLOVING
UNMERCIFUL
UNJUST

Are those details?
I don't think so.

My gripe with them is I don't appreciate them not having answers for my Biblical questions,

Of course there's no answer.
They spit verses back instead of explaining what you post,
some on this very thread just babble on and on without using scripture and thus, how does one even reply?
Every single one of their beliefs causes contradictions that their belief system creates and that cannot be explained away...
even using just simple logic.

and, instead, trying to get me to agree with their inaccurate gobbledygook. By God's grace, I could never allow my mind to fall into such incoherent insanity.

Thank God for that!

 

[GracePeace]

Actually GP, there is NO good news in the Calvinist gospel.
Jesus came from heaven to teach us HOW to get to heaven.
To show us HOW God predestined from the very beginning how He would allow us into heaven.
God knew that Adam would fail and so made provision for that failure.

Calvinists believe that God CAUSED Adam to fail.
That is damnable. That is more than slightly skewed.
Calvinists change the nature of God. That is more than slightly skewed.

The gospel is the good news that Jesus which is that everyone has the possibility of being saved.
The teaching is that IF we BELIEVE then we will be saved.
Calvinists believe that it's GOD that FORCES us to believe through irresistible grace, and that is not slightly skewed.
That is the antithesis to what the good news teaches.



I agree with you until the last few words.
Every detail?

They believe God is
UNLOVING
UNMERCIFUL
UNJUST

Are those details?
I don't think so.



Of course there's no answer.
They spit verses back instead of explaining what you post,
some on this very thread just babble on and on without using scripture and thus, how does one even reply?
Every single one of their beliefs causes contradictions that their belief system creates and that cannot be explained away...
even using just simple logic.


Thank God for that!

The fact that they're saved, and have grace to live for God, to me, is an example of God's kindness and flexibility. If God gave concessions under the Old Covenant, why wouldn't He also be flexible under the New? Paul became all things to all men so that some might be saved. It may be a difficult thing to accept, at first, but can't be ignored.

 

[GodsGrace]

The fact that they're saved, and have grace to live for God, to me, is an example of God's kindness and flexibility. If God gave concessions under the Old Covenant, why wouldn't He also be flexible under the New? Paul became all things to all men so that some might be saved. It's a difficult thing to grasp, but it must be respected.

I agree.
I do sometimes worry for their soul.
Will God forgive such aggrecious lies about Him?
Is this like blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

 

[GracePeace]

I agree.
I do sometimes worry for their soul.
Will God forgive such aggrecious lies about Him?
Is this like blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

I don't worry for their souls, I just want to adhere to truth, and discuss the truth.

 

[GracePeace]

I agree.
I do sometimes worry for their soul.
Will God forgive such aggrecious lies about Him?
Is this like blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

It couldn't be, or else they couldn't know God, but they do know God.

It's a justifiable misunderstanding--and, interestingly, it hits upon aspects of truth that obtain grace.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Semantics. One "True" God begs the question. So let's define.

Here's my definition: A "god" is anything that humans worship and serve, whether or not it is sentient or communicative. The Golden Calf was a "god." Mammon is a god. (Ambrose Bierce defines "mammon" as "The god of the world's leading religion. His temple is in the holy city of New York.")

That's a great definition, but I would just like to add one more thing to complete your definition, if you don't mind.

I would add that a god, is that object we hold in the highest esteem. So it can be a person or an animal or any idol, whatever has our highest respect and worship is our god.

 

[RedFan]

That's a great definition, but I would just like to add one more thing to complete your definition, if you don't mind.

I would add that a god, is that object we hold in the highest esteem. So it can be a person or an animal or any idol, whatever has our highest respect and worship is our god.

It's a good way to look at it, from a monotheist point of view. Ancient religions with multiple gods often included a chief god as well -- but not always.

 

[Christian Soldier]

lol

Its not for you. Yet Jesus said it is for you to know. through these parables. the mysteries..

jesus spoke in parables so only his children can understand them, the rest would not understand them..

Yes that's right, Jesus tells His people the whole parable, including it's meaning and conclusion. He doesn't do this for the unbelievers, He gives it to them as an impossible puzzle and it confuses them even more, so they remain confused all the way to the gates of hell

 

[Christian Soldier]

Because the disciples needed to know the mystery he was explaining. Unlike you, who think you do not need to understand them.. I guess your special?

That's ridiculous, nobody needed to know the mystery. Jesus reveals the mystery to the elect, as a special privilege. I don't need to know the mystery as it has no baring on my salvation, but Jesus has revealed it to me as a special privilege. Just as secret societies like the Freemasons, only reveal their secrets to their members.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I would say your one of the ones who are confused.

and I notice how you flip flopped. first it was not for us, now it is?? which is it??

Jesus doesn't speak to His elect in riddles. We know exactly what He means because we have a special gift of understanding which the non elect don't have so they will never understand a single parable. So it wasn't given to me as a riddle so the version I get is not the same as those on the outside get.

 

[Christian Soldier]

again sir, what have a said about him that is wrong?

You can not make silly accusations without showing evidence of what your claiming to be true.

show me and the rest of the chatroom what I have said that was wrong about God.. then back it up with scripture.

or else. you are just showing you are nothing but a troll

I'm not going to go over the same ground which I have already covered with you. You're welcome to go back over our discussion and find all the places where you misrepresented Gods nature

 

[GodsGrace]

It couldn't be, or else they couldn't know God, but they do know God.

It's a justifiable misunderstanding--and, interestingly, it hits upon aspects of truth that obtain grace.

I don't see how reformed beliefs could be justifiable when the bible clearly teaches that
God is loving, merciful and just.
Everything they teach is antitheical to this.

Of course there is some truth in every belief system...
That's a good way for one to be deceived...by mixing in a little truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not going to go over the same ground which I have already covered with you. You're welcome to go back over our discussion and find all the places where you misrepresented Gods nature

CS, I haven't gone over all the entirety of this threads past couple of pages,
but I'll tell you this....
@Eternally Grateful and I don't agree on absolutely everything, but he understands the character of God correctly....
something I cannot say about you.

ALL of Christianity believes God to be how He has shown Himself to be:
LOVING
MERCIFUL
JUST

The reformed understanding of God makes Him to be:
UNLOVING
UNMERCIFUL
UNJUST

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes that's right, Jesus tells His people the whole parable, including it's meaning and conclusion. He doesn't do this for the unbelievers, He gives it to them as an impossible puzzle and it confuses them even more, so they remain confused all the way to the gates of hell

What!
So you think that unbelievers don't read the NT?
You think they don't understand it?
You don't get around much CS.
Ben Shapiro is Jewish and he understands the NT better than you do.
Jordan Peterson is not Christian and he understands the bible better than you do.
Bart Ehrman, who has since denied his Christianity (IOW, he FELL AWAY from the faith), one of the world's top textual scholars, knows the bible better than you do .

So how do you explain the above??

 

[Christian Soldier]

If you add conditions, you would fall under the legalistic gospel.

I know of about 30 different denominations,

In all of them, they teach one of the three basic gospels I have tries to show you.

Most differ in the way they practice "church" or what they focus on doctrinally. But there are groups of them all which have the same basic gospel..

Your following a priest and a religion.. And you are so focused on that you can;t follow the word.

come out from her..

Oh I agree.. By the way, what false Gospel am I pushing.

come on man, you have no accused me twice.. yetr you have given no factual information about your accusation. Bring it on man.

The gospel you believe is not the gospel Jesus preached. I'll just give you one point to deal with at a time. Your first error, is you think that salvation is a joint effort between God and yourself.

That is not what Jesus taught, He never asked anyone to believe anything He said as a condition of salvation. I don't want to get into a Calvin vs Arminius debate, as everyone approaches that debate with their minds already made up so it's a futile exercise

 

[face2face]

I know you don't believe what the bible says, but here goes nothing.

1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Matt 12:24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

Matt 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

2 Cor 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

1 Chron 21:1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel

Zechariah 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him.

Acts 26:18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Luke 13:16 So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound—think of it—for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?”

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

I don't know how much evidence it would take to convince you that Gods Word should not be trashed or ignored. But I fear that you are beyond reason

​

​

If only you understood a single word of these quotes how enlightened would you become!
F2F

 

[GracePeace]

I don't see how reformed beliefs could be justifiable when the bible clearly teaches that
God is loving, merciful and just.
Everything they teach is antitheical to this.

Of course there is some truth in every belief system...
That's a good way for one to be deceived...by mixing in a little truth.

Bc there are verses that seem to say what they believe, so they think they're believing God accurately.

 

[Christian Soldier]

You have the interpretations wrong, but I doubt you're willing to change your positions.

1. Re Sinning:

If you believe that Exodus 32:32 means that God will blot out all names from the Book of Life, which is your statement, then you haven't understood sinning.

Everyone has sinned, and even Christians continue to sin to some extent, but, as I stated, Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for our sins and for the sins of the whole world, forever from the beginning to the end. He paid for ALL sins, even of those in the OT.

These sins are forgiven by HAVING FAITH in the OT, in God, and in the NT, in Jesus.
Both God, of course.

If you recall John did state a provision for our sins in 1 John 1 and 2.

So really, what you state makes no sense to me.

Again:
Exodus 32:32 states that names CAN BE BLOTTED OUT from the Book of Life IF WE SIN AGAINST GOD,
and have made NO PROVISION for that sinning. If we believe in Jesus, we have made a provision.

Christianity 101.
IF we LIVE A LIFE OF SIN, we do not belong to God and we are lost.

2. The Elect:

The elect, in this case, means those that CHOOSE TO KNOW GOD AND TO OBEY HIM.

God DID NOT choose anyone either for salvation or for damnation.
This is a heretical concept put forth by Luther, Knox, Calvin, Zwigly and others AFTER the reformation.
IOW, 1,500 years after Jesus.
This was a HERETICAL belief in the early church ,,, the belief known as PREDESTINATION.

Predestination in both the OT and the NT is always for HOW or for PURPOSE.
NEVER for WHO.

God gave us free will from the time He created Adam in the Garden.
That free will has not been taken away.
Please provide scriptural proof if you believe it has.
We are free to believe in God and be saved....
or we are free to deny God and be lost.

We must believe in God:
This is up to us to do.
Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Notice:
1. Faith is needed to please God.
2. We come to God. This is a choice. Choice is indicative of free will.
3. God rewards those who SEEK HIM. It is necessary to seek God. Something YOU say is impossible.

How many verses do you need to realize that your theology is incorrect?
How many conflicts do you need to realize that YOUR THEOLOGY is causing them?


@Eternally Grateful

Here you go accusing God of being a liar, every one of you statements is accusing God of being a liar and deceiver. You have confused God with Satan, He is a liar from the beginning and it's obvious you have come under His dominion, because you have fallen for His doctrine of Demons.

I never said that God will blot out all who have sinned against Him, I said that's what you believe Exodus 32 is saying. Then you backpaddle and say God didn't mean what He was saying, He was just a bit confused. It's obvious you have created a fake god in your mind and you can't justify anything he says and does, so you're always trying to defend him.

You make no sense with your senseless remarks about this weird "Everyone has sinned and even Christians sin to some extent". So now your trying to say that God just winks at the sins of Christians but He blots out the names of unbelievers who were never in His book to begin with. Show me where God wrote the names of unbelievers in His book. Your theology is the doctrine of Devils, it contrary to everything God said.

So now you say that it is up to dead corpses to make a decision to make provision for their salvation, if they believe in Christ. Show me where the bible says that dead people can make a decision to force Gods Hand to save them, it's absurd to make such silly suggestion.

You're accusing God of lying, by saying He didn't chose anyone for salvation. God says He did and you say He didn't, so you have really come under strong delusion.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

You have no fear of God at all, you constantly accuse Him of lies and deception.

You say that God elects those who choose to know God and obey Him. This is a lie as usual, because God said the opposite so one of you is lying.
God said in Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”

But you say no God, stop lying I'm telling the truth here, I say we are saved by choosing to know you and obey you, but you say nobody choses you. So I accuse you of being a liar. Can you see how blasphemous this is???????

God said we lost our free will when we sinned and became enslaved to Satan, but you say no God stop lying I say we never lost our free will. I'm not going to expose you demonic doctrine by refuting the rest of your comments. It's obvious to me that you have come under strong Demonic delusion, so I doubt that you have any capacity to embrace anything god says.