OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Eternally Grateful]

1. I'm waiting for a reply from the other poster.
I know you know what redeem means.

2. Everything always goes back to OSAS.

I am not here to argue for or against OSAS. I am here to discuss Gods word and what it says, Gods word will point to which is right and which is wrong.

Titus 2:14-15
14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
15These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

Why would Paul write a letter SPECIFICALLY teaching a Godly life if it were not important?
Why would he say we should be zealous for good deeds if it's just simply that we WANT to do them?

So your saying your flesh can not get into you head? You can not be tempted?

Again, Your issue is you do not understand what the difference between a non believer who sins 24/7 in everythign they do. and a believer who is a new creation, and is unable to live in sin 24.7

Gods standard is to be perfect 24/7 If you want to earn salvation, that is what you have to do.

we have all sinned and fallen short. Do you think that your say 100 sins a month is better than the other persons 200 sins a month?

You would both be damned where you stand if not for the redemptive price of the cross.

the only difference is, one of you recieved his gift. the other has not.

Titus 1:16
16They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

Paul is speaking about UNBELIEVERS above.
It sounds like the type of person some members on here speak about but call them CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS.

I agree, they have turned the grace of God to licentiousness..

But they are just as guilty as the legalist trying to work his way to heaven..

Both have a pride issue.

Can't be both.
We're warned because we MUST behave as Jesus wants us to....
or we will fall out of grace.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

Paul is stating that he endures for the sake of the chosen (us) that they may also OBTAIN SALVATION....
How...
By following what he said right after that
2 Timothy 2:12

why did you skip a part.

if we are faithless, he will remain faithful. he can not deny himself.

I agree, if we deny him, he will deny us,, But as John said, we may claim to have been a believer, but if we now deny him, we were never a true believer. Again, I just go with the words of John.

OSAS is a gnostic heresy, as the OP has stated.

NOSAS is legalism, and is heresy to the greatest extent.

Can I be OSAS and lost? Yes, Because I just merely believe, I am a hearer not a doer.

But I can not be a legalist thinking I must earn my way to heaven and be saved.

It is not biblical and never has been until the Reformation.
And works are a necessity for salvation.

Then you are under law not under grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.
But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Taken]

It's ignorant questions like this which make OSAS an abhorrent doctrine!

F2F

@Reggie Belafonte

OSAS….is an acronym that applies to a specific Standard and Principle (order and way) as taught by, through, of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and was offered to the whole world by, through, of our Lord God Almighty.

There IS no danger regarding OSAS application.

There IS danger, when one ATTEMPTS to, DECLARES he applies to himself, (or an other) that which DOES NOT APPLY.

Regarding…OSAS…the KEY word is “ONCE”…
It is ONCE, a specific event HAS OCCURRED.
It is ONLY ONE TIME, such an even SHALL OCCUR.

The “event” is RECEIPT of Salvation.

Salvation, IS a specific GIFT, Offered by the Lord God;
TO the WHOLE world…
To TAKE, To RECEIVE, To HAVE, To POSSESS, FOREVER… (or Reject)
EXPRESSLY…According TO Gods (not mans), Order and Way.

ANYONE can Claim…OSAS, applies to them…AND “IF” anyone “KNOWS” the Standard and Principle of Gods Order and Way to RECEIVE his GIFT of SALVATION…and OBSERVE, see, listen to one CLAIMING OSAS applies to THEM…it is EASY to Know the Truth…regarding the other.

Salvation…certainly WAS given to “some” OT men. And NOT others. Which is important to KNOW…
Who, When, Why, How…an ancient OT man received his Gift of Salvation…
* As Well, to THIS DAY…HOW and WHY some OT men Received their Gift of Salvation…MEN TODAY, can Receive their Gift of salvation by the SAME method.

The Gospel OF JESUS CHRIST…came with a NEW TESTAMENT, called A BETTER TESTAMENT…
Heb 7:22

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Here…IS the KEY Words..
* Better Testament…meaning something greater than was previously revealed and taught.
* Jesus…meaning the WHO is the one providing the Better Testament.
* Surety….meaning His (Jesus) Testament is DIFFERENT and Carries the weight of ASSUREDNESS.

Point being… Regarding SALVATION of a human man…
WHAT applied to OT men…still Applies.
WHAT applies to a NT man and forward…IS DIFFERENT.

It is a STEP by STEP study…
OF…who, what, when, why…SALVATION “WAS” given men…..BEFORE JESUS was sent to EARTH, from HEAVEN.

AND:

OF..who, what, when, why….SALVATION “IS” given men…AFTER JESUS returned to HEAVEN.

OSAS….is an all encompassing acronym…WHICH ONLY TRULY APPLIES to A FEW.
And typically IS REJECTED, by those WHO DO NOT know, comprehend the Standards, Principles UPON which the RECEIPT of the Gift of Salvation FROM the Lord JESUS…stands.

…It is NOT encompassed IN the terms…
Christian, Protestant, Catholic, Believer, Water Baptism, Prayer, Chants, Rituals, Statues, Blessings, Age, Gender, Race, Skin melatonin, Warnings, Political Governance, fallen angels….on and on that side-tracks and deflects FROM the understanding of the principles and standards of what OSAS…IS.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

No Jun.
You don't understand or maybe I don't and you could help me out here.

You posted John 10:26-30

You said that this proved salvation cannot be lost.
You said it proves OSAS.

Could you please show me WHERE in John 10:26-30
or Matthew 1:21
or anywhere in the NT where it's stated that it is not possible for a person to lose salvation.

Salvation…….CAN BE LOST.
Fact IS………..Salvation CAN BE LOST…BECAUSE of an INDIVIDUAL REJECTING TO RECEIVE SALVATION.

Gods GIFT of SALVATION…is not GIVEN a man…then LOST….by his Salvation Taken from him.

A man LOSES his Salvation … expressly BY NOT TAKING the GIFT bought, paid for and OFFERED to the WHOLE world.

IF….I buy a GIFT “FOR YOU”….hold out that GIFT and say Here, this is FOR YOU….

DO YOU, “HAVE” to Reach out and TAKE that Gift? No.

“IF” you choose to NOT reach out and TAKE that Gift…..WHO “POSSESSES” that GIFT…?
Me….or …. You? ME!
WHO has LOST “POSSESSING” that GIFT?
Me…or. …. You? YOU!

The GIFT, was already EXPRESSLY yours…bought and paid for FOR YOU…

IF you choose to NOT TAKE IT…you LOSE it.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Reggie Belafonte

OSAS….is an acronym that applies to a specific Standard and Principle (order and way) as taught by, through, of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and was offered to the whole world by, through, of our Lord God Almighty.

There IS no danger regarding OSAS application.

There IS danger, when one ATTEMPTS to, DECLARES he applies to himself, (or an other) that which DOES NOT APPLY.

Regarding…OSAS…the KEY word is “ONCE”…
It is ONCE, a specific event HAS OCCURRED.
It is ONLY ONE TIME, such an even SHALL OCCUR.

The “event” is RECEIPT of Salvation.

Salvation, IS a specific GIFT, Offered by the Lord God;
TO the WHOLE world…
To TAKE, To RECEIVE, To HAVE, To POSSESS, FOREVER… (or Reject)
EXPRESSLY…According TO Gods (not mans), Order and Way.

ANYONE can Claim…OSAS, applies to them…AND “IF” anyone “KNOWS” the Standard and Principle of Gods Order and Way to RECEIVE his GIFT of SALVATION…and OBSERVE, see, listen to one CLAIMING OSAS applies to THEM…it is EASY to Know the Truth…regarding the other.

Salvation…certainly WAS given to “some” OT men. And NOT others. Which is important to KNOW…
Who, When, Why, How…an ancient OT man received his Gift of Salvation…
* As Well, to THIS DAY…HOW and WHY some OT men Received their Gift of Salvation…MEN TODAY, can Receive their Gift of salvation by the SAME method.

The Gospel OF JESUS CHRIST…came with a NEW TESTAMENT, called A BETTER TESTAMENT…
Heb 7:22

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Here…IS the KEY Words..
* Better Testament…meaning something greater than was previously revealed and taught.
* Jesus…meaning the WHO is the one providing the Better Testament.
* Surety….meaning His (Jesus) Testament is DIFFERENT and Carries the weight of ASSUREDNESS.

Point being… Regarding SALVATION of a human man…
WHAT applied to OT men…still Applies.
WHAT applies to a NT man and forward…IS DIFFERENT.

It is a STEP by STEP study…
OF…who, what, when, why…SALVATION “WAS” given men…..BEFORE JESUS was sent to EARTH, from HEAVEN.

AND:

OF..who, what, when, why….SALVATION “IS” given men…AFTER JESUS returned to HEAVEN.

OSAS….is an all encompassing acronym…WHICH ONLY TRULY APPLIES to A FEW.
And typically IS REJECTED, by those WHO DO NOT know, comprehend the Standards, Principles UPON which the RECEIPT of the Gift of Salvation FROM the Lord JESUS…stands.

…It is NOT encompassed IN the terms…
Christian, Protestant, Catholic, Believer, Water Baptism, Prayer, Chants, Rituals, Statues, Blessings, Age, Gender, Race, Skin melatonin, Warnings, Political Governance, fallen angels….on and on that side-tracks and deflects FROM the understanding of the principles and standards of what OSAS…IS.

Glory to God,
Taken

Love this!

ONCE.

the question is, What does the once mean..and has it been accomplished.

if not. OSAS has no meaning no matter what you believe

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation…….CAN BE LOST.
Fact IS………..Salvation CAN BE LOST…BECAUSE of an INDIVIDUAL REJECTING TO RECEIVE SALVATION.

Gods GIFT of SALVATION…is not GIVEN a man…then LOST….by his Salvation Taken from him.

A man LOSES his Salvation … expressly BY NOT TAKING the GIFT bought, paid for and OFFERED to the WHOLE world.

IF….I buy a GIFT “FOR YOU”….hold out that GIFT and say Here, this is FOR YOU….

DO YOU, “HAVE” to Reach out and TAKE that Gift? No.

“IF” you choose to NOT reach out and TAKE that Gift…..WHO “POSSESSES” that GIFT…?
Me….or …. You? ME!
WHO has LOST “POSSESSING” that GIFT?
Me…or. …. You? YOU!

The GIFT, was already EXPRESSLY yours…bought and paid for FOR YOU…

IF you choose to NOT TAKE IT…you LOSE it.

Glory to God,
Taken

Amen again!!

He who believes is not condemned (saved)
He who does not believe is condemned already (they have not received)

But as many as have received him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God..

 

[Taken]

Amen again!!

He who believes is not condemned (saved)
He who does not believe is condemned already (they have not received)

But as many as have received him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God..

YES…paramount…”HAVE RECEIV-ED”…past tense..accomplish-ED.

No less than 10 times in Scripture…
LIVING men…. who “ARE SANCTIFIED” are mentioned….

It is the pivotal point of an individual’s LIFE…that REQUIRES one to possess “Spiritual Understanding” (not wishy washy, conflicting, deflecting…Carnal Understanding)… to recognize the meaning of “ARE SANCTIFIED”.

Glory to Good,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure. feel free

He was correct.

He's correct in stating that a believer could live a life of sin and still be saved?

Here's what the other member stated:
MANY CHRISTIANS WATCH PROGRAMS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE WATCHING.
AND THAT IS NOT BEING OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH.
THAT IS: I'M ENJOYING SOME CARNAL TIME.

and

GAME OF THRONES...WEEKLY RAPE, INCEST AND MURDER AND THAT WAS WHEN THE SHOW WAS JUST GETTING STARTED
AND MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS LOVED THAT PROGRAM FOR 7 YEARS OF THEIR LIFE.

THEY WERE NOT "FELLOWSHIPPING WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT" WHEN THEY WERE WATCHING GAME OF THRONES FOR 7 YEARS.

Then he went on to discuss the person who was fornicating with his step mother in Corinthians.

and the other member stated:

HE WAS NOT LOST (the person in Corinthians that was thrown out of the church) HE WAS NOT CAST OUT OF HEAVEN, HE WAS NOT GOING TO HELL.
PAUL SENT HIM OUT OF THE CHURCH TO "GET IT TOGETHER" AND EVENTUALLY TOOK HIM BACK INTO THE CONGREGATION.
AND PAUL NEVER EVEN TOLD HIM TO CONFESS HIS SIN.

If you can sit comfortably in your seat and listen to some make-believe Christian spew out this stuff then I really have nothing further to say in this regard .... you will never understand what being a Christian means.

Post some verses about this fellowship I keep hearing about....
I cannot find any because they don't exist.

You are either with God
or Against God
Mark 9:38 no middle ground.

The prodigal son NEVER stopped being the son. He still had his fathers blood in his veins, I am saddened you did not quite get the whole jist of the parable.

That's what you say.
But Jesus does not agree.
Jesus said the son was FOUND AGAIN.

The son became LOST when he left the HOUSE OF HIS FATHER.
Just like YOU can do if you live a life full of sin with no regard to what Jesus wants from you.

ONLY those who do the will of the Father will see heaven.
Matthew 7.23

PS. I was a prodigal son for 5 years. I never stopped being the son. In fact, I was chastened quite often, and it was Gods chastening that brought me to my knees and back to him.

You don't know that EG.
And I suggest you stop preaching this because there are young Christian souls at stake.

I left God because of something the church did to me, God never left me

Did you leave the church
or did you leave God?
Quite a difference.

BELIEVE

Believing is not the same as faith..

I am not the one who is delsusional my good friend.

WE CAN NOT LIVE A LIFE OF SIN.

Then stop speaking as if we could and stop supporting members that plainly state that we could live a life of sin and still be saved.

Could you please at least confess that you are bearing false witness against me an apologize? It would be one thing if I had not told you this before. But I have told you multiple times, I have even posted the passages which proves what I said. so the fact you keep insisting I said something I have NEVER claimed.

I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.

I think I deserve at least an appology

For what?

all I can do is shake my head

here I will post this

1 John 2: 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Thanks for proving my point:

You posted 1 John 2:3
By this we know that we know Him...IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

Do the Christians the other member was speaking of sound to you like they were keeping HIS COMMANDMENTS?

No.
Most definitely NOT.

1 John 3:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Interseting. So the post said we could sin and still be saved but only lose fellowship...
but now you state that if we sin we have never known God.

Which is it EG?
Make up your mind.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

lets review.

whoever sins (habitually, or lives in sin) has never known or seen God. they have never been saved

Whoever is born of God can not sin (habitually or live in sin) because they have been born of God..

once again, a child of God can not live in sin. you want to falsely accuse me again of saying I believe they can.. I will post this over and over until you repent.

You want to say others believe this, feel free. but never say I have said this again!!

Well, the fact that you agree with the other member shows that there is some type of conflict going on in your teaching.

IF we do not sin IF we are ABIDING in Jesus....
then WHY were all those Christians sinning but we're told they just lost FELLOWSHIP?

Explain.
Because there's no such animal in God's kingdom.

 

[GodsGrace]

Salvation…….CAN BE LOST.
Fact IS………..Salvation CAN BE LOST…BECAUSE of an INDIVIDUAL REJECTING TO RECEIVE SALVATION.

Gods GIFT of SALVATION…is not GIVEN a man…then LOST….by his Salvation Taken from him.

A man LOSES his Salvation … expressly BY NOT TAKING the GIFT bought, paid for and OFFERED to the WHOLE world.

IF….I buy a GIFT “FOR YOU”….hold out that GIFT and say Here, this is FOR YOU….

DO YOU, “HAVE” to Reach out and TAKE that Gift? No.

“IF” you choose to NOT reach out and TAKE that Gift…..WHO “POSSESSES” that GIFT…?
Me….or …. You? ME!
WHO has LOST “POSSESSING” that GIFT?
Me…or. …. You? YOU!

The GIFT, was already EXPRESSLY yours…bought and paid for FOR YOU…

IF you choose to NOT TAKE IT…you LOSE it.

Glory to God,
Taken

What you are describing is salvation not received when offered by God.

What I'm saying is that a person that lives in sin.....even though they walked down some isle somewhere and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior....IS LOST.

This can happen because a person decided he made a mistake and the cost was too high.
Luke 14:28

Or maybe they just fell away from the faith.
Hebrews 3:12

Maybe a false prophet lead them astray.
Matthew 24:11


Who can know why....
But some can FALL AWAY from THE FAITH.
And forfeit that salvation which God had gifted to them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He's correct in stating that a believer could live a life of sin and still be saved?

He never said that

Here's what the other member stated:
MANY CHRISTIANS WATCH PROGRAMS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE WATCHING.
AND THAT IS NOT BEING OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH.
THAT IS: I'M ENJOYING SOME CARNAL TIME.

and

GAME OF THRONES...WEEKLY RAPE, INCEST AND MURDER AND THAT WAS WHEN THE SHOW WAS JUST GETTING STARTED
AND MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS LOVED THAT PROGRAM FOR 7 YEARS OF THEIR LIFE.

THEY WERE NOT "FELLOWSHIPPING WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT" WHEN THEY WERE WATCHING GAME OF THRONES FOR 7 YEARS.

Then he went on to discuss the person who was fornicating with his step mother in Corinthians.

and the other member stated:

HE WAS NOT LOST (the person in Corinthians that was thrown out of the church) HE WAS NOT CAST OUT OF HEAVEN, HE WAS NOT GOING TO HELL.
PAUL SENT HIM OUT OF THE CHURCH TO "GET IT TOGETHER" AND EVENTUALLY TOOK HIM BACK INTO THE CONGREGATION.
AND PAUL NEVER EVEN TOLD HIM TO CONFESS HIS SIN.

Non of this is LIVING IN SIN.

Once again, Until you study to find out what it means to live in sin. Then you will never understand

1. Watching game of thrones is not sin.
2. the person fornicating. He repented. and they let him back in, in no place did it say he lost his salvation

Having one sin problem does not make us LIVE IN SIN.

again, Your defenition is way off line

If you can sit comfortably in your seat and listen to some make-believe Christian spew out this stuff then I really have nothing further to say in this regard .... you will never understand what being a Christian means.

Oh I understand.

But sadly. I do not see that you do..

Post some verses about this fellowship I keep hearing about....
I cannot find any because they don't exist.

You are either with God
or Against God
Mark 9:38 no middle ground.

He who believes is not condemned,

He who des not believe is condemned already.

Both of these people sin.

once lives in sin (it is everything he does)

the other most likely struggles with a sin or two. and has to grow and learn about other sins he does not even know he does yet. But he does not live in sin.

But you refuse to understand the different, then judge me and accuse me falsly..

That's what you say.
But Jesus does not agree.
Jesus said the son was FOUND AGAIN.

He was FOUND AGAIN

But he did not lost his salvation.

HE HAD HIS FATHERS BLOOD.

HI FATHER DID NOT DISOWN HIM.

The son became LOST when he left the HOUSE OF HIS FATHER.
Just like YOU can do if you live a life full of sin with no regard to what Jesus wants from you.

That does not mean we stop being the fathers son.

Your stuck with a legalistic mindset and can not see this.. which is sad.

I hope you treat your kids (if you have any) better than you claim God treats his kids.

ONLY those who do the will of the Father will see heaven.
Matthew 7.23

Yep. I have never denied this, so why do you keep pushing it like I deny it

You don't know that EG.
And I suggest you stop preaching this because there are young Christian souls at stake.

so I do not know what happened to me for that 5 years?

The times God chastened me, and turned me from sin when I would fall. and kept doing what it took to bring me back.

Thank you. But you do not know me, so don;t you dare say what I experienced is not true.

Your right, christian souls are at stake, Thats why I FIGHT LEGALISM tooth and nail. because it leads people to hell because they refuse to trust God and in turn they trust themselves.

Did you leave the church
or did you leave God?
Quite a difference.

Not really..

when your not in the body, your not with God..

Then stop speaking as if we could and stop supporting members that plainly state that we could live a life of sin and still be saved.

I saw one person that said his friend stated HE could live in sin, and I told him his friend was licentious. he did not have faith.

so I did not support when someone said that

other than that, You have not shown me some one who said they could LIVE IN SIN (practice sin, sin is on their mind 24/7, all they do is sin, because they are focused on self not God)

I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.

As usual.

is this why you keep bearing false witness against me, claiming I have said things I have never said, and actually have said the opposite,

For what?

smh

Thanks for proving my point:

You posted 1 John 2:3
By this we know that we know Him...IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

Do the Christians the other member was speaking of sound to you like they were keeping HIS COMMANDMENTS?

I don't know

He said they watched ONE SHOW.. An hour long show. once a week. so what did they do the other 168 hours a week?

Even the guy sleeping with another woman. He was obeying Gods command about assembling together. was he disobedient to every sin, or just this one.

Your judging people based on insufficient evidence, and then attacking us, when you do not know yourself

No.
Most definitely NOT.

Ah, so now your playing God. Got it!!!!

Interseting. So the post said we could sin and still be saved but only lose fellowship...
but now you state that if we sin we have never known God.

No

I said if we LIVE IN SIN.

why do you twist my words!!

HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Which is it EG?
Make up your mind.

sorry you have no reading comprehension. I can not help you if you are too proud to actually read what people say..

All your doing is making a fool of yourself.

Well, the fact that you agree with the other member shows that there is some type of conflict going on in your teaching.

IF we do not sin IF we are ABIDING in Jesus....
then WHY were all those Christians sinning but we're told they just lost FELLOWSHIP?

LIVING IN SIN< HABITUAL SIN.

Are you sinless? You told me know.. So I guess your not saved either by your own account!

Explain.
Because there's no such animal in God's kingdom.

Your right

there is but one person who ever fuflilled the law. His name is christ

He died for you and I, because we could not keep the law (we still do nto keep the law)

yet your attacking me based on your limited knowledge of what sin is, and what it means to live in sin, vs what it means to struggle for one or two sins.

But when your stuck in legalism, you must puff yourself up and makes yourself better than others. Because if you did not. you would have to admit your sin, and you can not deal with that.

You want to pump your chest like a pharisee, feel free. Count me out of praising your pride or ego.

 

[Taken]

What you are describing is salvation not received when offered by God.

Correct…If one hasn’t received Salvation, they don’t possess the Gift.

What I'm saying is that a person that lives in sin.....even though they walked down some isle somewhere and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior....IS LOST.

I know what you mean…but in reality…the aisle walk … is a presumption that individual is HEARTFULLY confessing his belief in the Lord God…IS HE? Only the Lord God and that man KNOWS for Sure…However…that man DOES become a “member” of that man made Church….and will be “considered” saved, born again VIA that church and the witnesses.

This can happen because a person decided he made a mistake and the cost was too high.
Luke 14:28

That is not about confessing, then backing out. That is about being sure of your choice….Because the result is permanent…

Meaning…if a person, attends an altar call…without heartful belief, FOR nefarious reasons (please parents, a girlfriend, hope to get business contracts from congregates as a “church member”, etc.)…His confession is thus NOT according to Gods Order and Way…AND…the result is he has LIED to the Lord God…That also is a permanent result that carries consequences.

Luke 14:
[28] For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
[29] Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
[30] Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Another Parallel…to BE SURE of your confession…

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Or maybe they just fell away from the faith.
Hebrews 3:12

Believers…CAN fall from Faith.
The Saved and Born Again CAN NOT fall away.

But some can FALL AWAY from THE FAITH.
And forfeit that salvation which God had gifted to them.

Yes…Believers can fall away.
No….the Converted can NOT fall away. ( They ARE a new Creature…they can not become the old creature.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Where is his faith? FDid he repent?

I see no evidence he did either.

I am taken to this passage.

Jude 3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness' and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sadly I feel very few have seen the light. Like you said, Gods true children have the HS. they abide. Not because they have to. But because they are.

OSAS is just a term, I am coming to hate the term, but at the same time, those fighting against the term, also fight against eternal security in CHRIST.

As you can see. someone said they have security as long as THEY do something..

The confusing part which saddens me, is how they they say they have security in Christ. when it is truly in themselves.

Its the opposite of your friend, who has no faith in God. and turns Gods grace into licentiousness (A license to sin) and thinks he will meet Jesus on God terms.

there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth from both sides.

It's one is saying my Church is the correct one ! and all the rest of people are totaly wrong ? We are the Church denomination ! shut up and follow everything that we tell you or else !

Well i am like, i know people are devout regardless denomination and they are willing to talk about the Lord our Saviour !
And i find that any such people have a great zeal to talk about Christ Jesus ! but some only want to come out with lines ? that they have been indoctrinated to peddle. not that they can add such all together in true regards as to why.

I do not know the number of the vurse, for one may be into such by rote ? but i am not into that at all. i am not trying to convince anyone that way.
I just work on hopefuly laying the seed ? i have seen such works wonders, now of late i have a mates daughter who has got into going to Church with great zeal and her mum says, that she is being hamered by her daughter coming out saying passagers in the Bible 24/7.
I was and i am very happy to hear it !
I do not force anything on people. but i will Pray for them, that means i will help them grow in Christ Jesus, not that i am trying in telling them anything, but for them to pick up on such for themselves. i found that this works wonders. because they found it and picked up on such. for That gives them great incentive !

 

[JLB]

I am not here to argue for or against OSAS. I am here to discuss Gods word and what it says, Gods word will point to which is right and which is wrong.

Great. Glad to here you use God's word to guide your doctrine.


Here is what Jesus said to those who are in Christ; in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Each of us must determine to remain in Christ.

Here is how this same John instructed us to remain in Christ -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Those who are in Christ, have eternal life. Those who do not remain in Christ, no longer have eternal life.


In Christ = Eternal life
Removed from Christ = No longer have eternal life remaining in Them.

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away...

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:1-2



JLB

 

[JunChosen]

People commit that sin all the time, we see it in here

Jesus told them they were in danger of comitting the unpardonable sin. which means they still had hope. their hope was not lost. I am sure a few of them repented (we know Saul did. and wrote half the NT)

Do you even understand the meaning of the word "unpardonable"???

No one has committed the unpardonable sin in this day and age. YOU said, if they did they will still have hope and are not lost, as you claim.

We read in Matthew 12:31-32: READ and WEEP...

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, "He (Jesus) hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casts he out devils." (Mk 3:22).

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Again I challenge any one who posted in this thread if you truly believe you understand Bible doctrines and its interpretations.
Yes, at times I might not make sense since English is my second language. However; it does not hurt to ask me (or anyone for that matter) if what you understood from my writing is what I really said.

Once again I put my question to @face2face and to any one which I posted in post #790, "How many sins of the individuals did Jesus redeem when He went to the cross?"

ALL of course!! If Jesus had not paid for one sin of an individual, he had to pay for that sin BECAUSE the "wages of sin (singular) is death." If Jesus did Not pay for one sin of that individual he will die.

So I ask, "What sin can that individual commit that will bring him to hell?" N-O-N-E, Z-l-L-C-H, N-A-D-A.

Therefore, Once Saved Always Saved!!!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist if one knows Bible doctrines and its interpretations.

To God Be The Glory

 

[GodsGrace]

Again I challenge any one who posted in this thread if you truly believe you understand Bible doctrines and its interpretations.
Yes, at times I might not make sense since English is my second language. However; it does not hurt to ask me (or anyone for that matter) if what you understood from my writing is what I really said.

Once again I put my question to @face2face and to any one which I posted in post #790, "How many sins of the individuals did Jesus redeem when He went to the cross?"

ALL of course!! If Jesus had not paid for one sin of an individual, he had to pay for that sin BECAUSE the "wages of sin (singular) is death." If Jesus did Not pay for one sin of that individual he will die.

So I ask, "What sin can that individual commit that will bring him to hell?" N-O-N-E, Z-l-L-C-H, N-A-D-A.

Therefore, Once Saved Always Saved!!!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist if one knows Bible doctrines and its interpretations.

To God Be The Glory

I replied to a post of yours to which you did not respond.

Also, the unpardonable sin has nothing to do with eternal security which is in Christ.

What do you think the unpardonable sin is?

 

[JunChosen]

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)!

I believe you misquoted Scripture. Salvation was finished, was a done deal when Jesus cried out on the cross, "it is finished!!"

Salvation IS a bought and paid for Gift, that belongs to God, IS Offered by God for the entire human race, to TAKE, if they so choose

Yes, salvation is bought and paid for by God, but it has NEVER been offered, but given arbitrarily in eternity past and before the foundation of the world to those God elected/chosen for salvation.
(see, Ro. 3:10-11; Eph. 2:8-10; John 15:16).

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

What do you think the unpardonable sin is?

Mark 3:22 reads:
"And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He (Jesus) hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casts he out devils."

The scribes accused Jesus of getting His power from Satan casting out devils.

Matthew 12:31-32 reads:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

To God Be The Glory
.

 

[Taken]

Yes, salvation is bought and paid for by God, but it has NEVER been offered, but given arbitrarily in eternity past and before the foundation of the world to those God elected/chosen for salvation.
(see, Ro. 3:10-11; Eph. 2:8-10; John 15:16).

To God Be The Glory

God IS Spirit…
His Life, His Body, His Soul, His Spirit, His Power, His Word, His Understanding…
IS SPIRIT.
(And that which comes forth out from God…Remains IN God)

God sent forth out of His Mouth…His WORD.
God PREPARED a BODY for His Word, for WHEN His Word would be Sent forth to Earth.
THAT Prepared BODY…Expressly was Prepared in the LIKENESS as a JEWISH Human man.
THAT Prepared BODY…was Given a NAME…and step by step, bit by bit, was Revealed with TITLES, and the meaning and the power of those TITLES:
Jesus…Word, Truth, Life, Way, Light of God
Word…Gods Communication of speech
Rabbi…Jewish Spiritual Teacher.
Master…Highest Spiritual Teacher.
Only Begotten Son of God…Equal with God.
Savior…task in Service unto God.
Salvation…The Gift Offering.
Lord…worthy of Trust and Worship
Christ…(Messiah) Perfection, Power, Wisdom, Seed of God.


Eph 5:
[2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jesus…DID NOT SACRIFICE…His Spiritual body, His Spiritual Soul, His Spiritual Spirit…
He came in the Likeness as an Earthly man for Earthly MEN TO SEE…OBSERVE…WATCH…HEAR…BELIEVE…TRUST…DO AS HE DID…AND for HUMAN MEN WHO call ON HIM…surrender their WHOLE LIFE (body, soul, spirit ) unto Him…
to EXPECT to ALSO BE TREATED by Human men…AS JESUS WAS TREATED…
Subjected to mens Tribulations, mens wrath, mens victimization, Down trodden, Beaten, Falsely Accused, ridiculed, wrongly incarcerated, even killed…

Yes…Jesus offered His Prepared body…AS A GIFT….for the Life of all men of the world…

And JUST as God OFFERED the TREE OF LIFE to ADAM….the OFFERING IS MOOT…IF a man does not REACH OUT AND TAKE the Gift.

No one can FORCE another to TAKE a GIFT OFFERING…

But in no way less was the GIFT not bought, paid for and THEIRS to TAKE.

Men who chose NOT TAKE…CLAIM “THEIR” GIFT….LOSE their GIFT…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Mark 3:22 reads:
"And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He (Jesus) hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casts he out devils."

The scribes accused Jesus of getting His power from Satan casting out devils.

Matthew 12:31-32 reads:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

To God Be The Glory
.

Matthew 12:31-32 speaks of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

But you're talking about the unpardonable sin.
The sin that is not pardonable is the sin of unbelief in God.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, indeed, attributing to the Holy Spirit the works of satan...
or any other blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

When the reformed claim that God chooses whom He will save,
it comes very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirt...unless it actually does.

Why?

Because God is a loving, merciful and just God.

The reformed make God out to be unloving, unmerciful and unjust.

Yes. I'd say that comes very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit...

 

[Johann]

Yes, salvation is bought and paid for by God, but it has NEVER been offered, but given arbitrarily in eternity past and before the foundation of the world to those God elected/chosen for salvation.
(see, Ro. 3:10-11; Eph. 2:8-10; John 15:16).

Incorrect--don't even attempt to correct my post.

Yes, salvation is bought and paid for by God, but it is offered to all and received by faith. Scripture teaches that God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, but this choice is made manifest through faith in Jesus Christ. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV). "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 3:10-11 KJV). Jesus said, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain" (John 15:16 KJV). Salvation is available to all who believe: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13 KJV).

John 3:16
Greek: Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν Υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ' ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Transliteration: Hoútōs gàr ēgápēsen ho Theòs tòn kósmos, hṓste tòn Huión tòn monogenḗ édōken, hína pās ho pisteúōn eis autòn mē ápólētai all' échēi zōḗn aiṓnion.
English: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 Timothy 2:3-4
Greek: Τοῦτο καλὸν καὶ ἀπόδεκτον ἐνώπιον τοῦ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Θεοῦ, ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι καὶ εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ἀληθείας ἐλθεῖν.
Transliteration: Toûto kalòn kaì apódekton enṓpion toû sōtêros hēmôn Theoû, hòs pántas anthrṓpous thélei sōthênai kaì eis epígnōsin alētheías eltheîn.
English: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

2 Peter 3:9
Greek: Οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας, ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται, ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ εἰς ἡμᾶς, μὴ βουλόμενος τινὰς ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι.
Transliteration: Ou bradúnei kýrios tēs epangelías, hṓs tines bradýtēta ēgoûntai, allà makrothumeî eis hēmâs, mḕ boulómenos tinàs apolésthai allà pántas eis metánoian chorêsai.
English: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Titus 2:11
Greek: Ἐπεφάνη γὰρ ἡ χάρις τοῦ Θεοῦ σωτήριος πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις.
Transliteration: Epephánē gàr hē cháris toû Theoû sōtḗrios pâsin anthrṓpois.
English: "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men."

These verses collectively show that the New Testament presents salvation as available to all people, emphasizing God's desire for everyone to come to repentance and faith.