Orthodoxy vs "The Way".

[Behold]

No Cross = No Salvation

Water baptism, need not apply.

And How do you know that Jesus finished your Salvation?

Its because from The Cross....... Jesus said.....>>>"IT...is finished (accomplished)"... Then He died.

So, what is Accomplished ?

What is "IT" ?

A.) Salvation.

See that?
You can't earn that, and you can't do that......yet forums and pulpits and congregations are filled with people who are trying to "stay saved".

I had a member here, a few days ago, tell me....>"YOU keep yourself saved"........as if Jesus, The Cross, and The Blood and Death of Jesus, is irrelevant.

Reader, noone who is born again, is trying to "stay saved", .. unless they dont understand Salvation.

Here is how to understand Salvation.

Jesus is Salvation
Jesus is Eternal Life
Jesus is Redemption
Jesus is the Blood Atonement
Jesus is the New Covenant
Jesus is the "only way to the Father is by me"..
Jesus is The Resurrection.

See all that?
And if you are born again, then JESUS is IN YOU, as "Christ in you the Hope of Glory" ("Glory" = is Heaven).

So, If Jesus is IN YOU....= then you have become The "temple of the Holy Spirit" and "Jesus is THAT Spirit".

If Jesus is IN YOU, then you are born again "IN Christ".......and are "ONE with God", and not just for the next few years.

Eternal LIFE = is not temporary..

Being BORN... again....... means you now posses Eternal Life, and the Power of the Resurrection, = because you are Eternally Connected : to The Blessed ONE who is both.

Rejoice in this "Good news".

 

[Lizbeth]

A circular silly argument. First you say that BAC's don't sin habitually...than you say you do sin and need to sin because of another misunderstanding of the bible. basically you are interpreting the bible to defend yourself...the ego.

You think repentance is into less sinning? How much sin justifies you or disqualifies you?

Is the wages of sin still death?

Does the soul that sins still die?

Go ahead and invent a scheme that you can be comfortable with.

These scriptures come to mind:

"We offend in many ways all." (mostly inadvertently we hope, and not wilfully)

"If you keep on WILFULLY sinning there is no more sacrifice for sins."

"If I do that I don't want to do, it is no longer I who sin but sin living in me." (That is the grace and mercy that comes to us through the cross, not imputing our trespasses to us, as long as we are penitent and acknowledge them, and seeking to do better. What is grace for if we don't need it? We sometimes need it for specific things and I think we always need it every moment for the iniquity that exists in our flesh and old man until we die.)

Salvation is a journey, not just an event. And that means according to David's psalm, God's goodness and mercy follow us all the days of our life (as long as we remain in Him and don't fall away, which there are warnings against that).

But we do need to seek to put on the new man and put off the old man and live and walk in the Spirit. I think if we are following the Lord, He will arranges our lives and circumstances to bring us to a place of surrendering our will.....our Gethsemane? Right now most of us are still in the driver's seat, sort of picking and choosing how and when we will serve the Lord rather than giving over control of our lives to Him lock, stock and barrel (how I think of it). Jesus is the new man we need to put on, essentially. Oswald Chambers testifies that once that battle for the will is won it will never have to be fought again. If that is true, it makes me wonder what the situation is with those who walk in the Spirit just for a season or intermittently.....maybe the surrender of one's will to the Lord and walking in the Spirit are not the same things.

 

[Episkopos]

These scriptures come to mind:

"We offend in many ways all." (mostly inadvertently we hope, and not wilfully)

"If you keep on WILFULLY sinning there is no more sacrifice for sins."

That wilfulness is the stubbornness of immature believers who refuse wisdom and chase after folly. In our time these abound. A person that can't be discipled is of no use at all to the Lord...rather so many rely on silly schemes that line up with their own imaginations and preferences.

"If I do that I don't want to do, it is no longer I who sin but sin living in me." (That is the grace and mercy that comes to us through the cross, not imputing our trespasses to us, as long as we are penitent and acknowledge them, and seeking to do better. What is grace for if we don't need it? We sometimes need it for specific things and I think we always need it every moment for the iniquity that exists in our flesh and old man until we die.)

You are confusing grace with mercy or forgiveness...as so many do. We need God's grace to overcome as Jesus did...and give us ALWAYS the victory over sin as Paul states.

Salvation is a journey, not just an event. And that means according to David's psalm, God's goodness and mercy follow us all the days of our life (as long as we remain in Him and don't fall away, which there are warnings against that).

That's right. God's goodness and mercy follow us...but grace only happens as we follow Christ.

But we do need to seek to put on the new man and put off the old man and live and walk in the Spirit. I think if we are following the Lord, He will arranges our lives and circumstances to bring us to a place of surrendering our will.....our Gethsemane? Right now most of us are still in the driver's seat, sort of picking and choosing how and when we will serve the Lord rather than giving over control of our lives to Him lock, stock and barrel (how I think of it). Jesus is the new man we need to put on, essentially. Oswald Chambers testifies that once that battle for the will is won it will never have to be fought again. If that is true, it makes me wonder what the situation is with those who walk in the Spirit just for a season or intermittently.....maybe the surrender of one's will to the Lord and walking in the Spirit are not the same things.

Being led by the Spirit is up to us. This is based on a disposition to love God as we can. We can follow Christ from many distances. But to abide in Christ is necessary to walk in His Spirit...in resurrection life. This only happens by translation into the realm of the Spirit...in Zion where there is eternal peace and joy in His holy presence.

So whether it rains or we collect the dew every morning we do all to please the Lord. Whether we are present or absent we do all to be accepted by Him.

There are many that are faithful on the righteousness level that never know God in holiness. The New Covenant is based on holiness. However, God will not discard the follower who practices righteousness with humility.

 

[Johann]

That wilfulness is the stubbornness of immature believers who refuse wisdom and chase after folly. In our time these abound. A person that can't be discipled is of no use at all to the Lord...rather so many rely on silly schemes that line up with their own imaginations and preferences.


You are confusing grace with mercy or forgiveness...as so many do. We need God's grace to overcome as Jesus did...and give us ALWAYS the victory over sin as Paul states.


That's right. God's goodness and mercy follow us...but grace only happens as we follow Christ.

Being led by the Spirit is up to us. This is based on a disposition to love God as we can. We can follow Christ from many distances. But to abide in Christ is necessary to walk in His Spirit...in resurrection life. This only happens by translation into the realm of the Spirit...in Zion where there is eternal peace and joy in His holy presence.

So whether it rains or we collect the dew every morning we do all to please the Lord. Whether we are present or absent we do all to be accepted by Him.

There are many that are faithful on the righteousness level that never know God in holiness. The New Covenant is based on holiness. However, God will not discard the follower who practices righteousness with humility.

Some Errors Avoided by a Right Doctrine of Sanctification - Founders Ministries

My sermon betrayed the gospel. I was young, a-theological, and gripped by legalism. That toxic mix led to a litany of don’ts with no hint of the power of the cross, standing with Christ, or certainty of the believer’s sanctification. Instead, it left the hearers with more stuff to do if they...

founders.org

The deeper life. Deeper life adherents hold a range of views: the most extreme in perfectionism, the Keswick teaching of full surrender, and the Pentecostal and charismatic view of the second blessing, among others. If we lump them all together under the category of deeper life, their unwitting error is twofold.

First, Jesus and his redemptive work is not enough. It’s enough for dealing with God’s wrath but inadequate for daily living in the outworking of the gospel’s saving purpose and power. In their framework, sanctification becomes an additional experience sought through acts of full surrender or dying to self or “psychological passivity” or baptism of the Spirit leading to a deeper dimension of Christianity unknown by most.[7] Yet this extra experience falters at Paul’s declaration, “In Him you have been made complete” (Colossians 2:10).

Second, the Christian life is focused on a personal crisis experience by which a new level of spirituality is reached, instead of a continuing journey of obedience (James 1:19–25), exercising spiritual disciplines (1 Timothy 4:6–16; 6:11–16), utilizing the means of grace (1 Timothy 4:13), living out the gospel in community (Ephesians 4–5), and receiving God’s discipline (Hebrews 12:1–11) until Christ is formed in us (Galatians 4:19).

While many godly people past and present hold aspects this view, it fails to rely upon the certainty of sanctification provided through Christ’s redemptive work and its application by the Holy Spirit pointing us to sufficiency in Christ.[8] It puts emphasis on an extra experience beyond faith in Christ, relying far too much on the level of one’s surrender or the intensity of his faith. One’s standing is elevated by the deeper life experience rather than forever settled in Christ.

2. Fundamentalism/legalism. Quite simply, while intending to give attention to obedience—which is assured in sanctification—legalism turns obedience into an external standard of acceptance. It shows unfortunate kinship with the Roman Catholic errors on sanctification.[9] The legalist measures his standing with God by the strictness of adherence to law—and what is added to law—rather than relying upon the righteousness of Christ alone (see Paul’s counter argument in Galatians). Legalism is performance driven. If one performs well, God is pleased; but slip-up, fail to meet the established expectations, then one falls into divine disfavor. Self-sanctification replaces the certainty of Christ’s sanctifying work by the Spirit. Instead of hope fixed on Christ, attention shifts to a sort-of fundamentalist targums—a brand of legalism as the standard for Christianity. But where is the sufficiency of Christ in the gospel? For all but the most self-righteous, it leaves a wake of guilt, despair, and fear.

3. Presumption leading to antinomianism. Sanctification in Christ does not exclude ongoing obedience (Ephesians 2:10; Philippians 2:12–13; Titus 2:11–14). Yet some presume upon sanctification in Christ and grace given as a license to indulge in whatever one desires. Paul tackled this problem in Romans 6, explaining that those who have become “obedient from the heart” have been freed from sin—as the controlling power in life—and now become “slaves of righteousness” (6:17–18). Consequently, those living in the grace of God have all the more reason to fight sin and to live as those alive from the dead (6:12–14). Instead of presumption, a proper understanding of sanctification leads to a spiritual warfare posture that recognizes the power of indwelling sin, while relying upon the effectiveness of Christ’s redemptive work in its application to daily life (Ephesians 6:10–20). That is the sanctified life.

Conclusion

Those “possessed by God” through Christ, to use Peterson’s phrase, are given the power and motivation to live in holiness. Their standing with God remains fixed in Christ. So their practice in sanctification doesn’t elevate them to a higher life. It cannot account them more righteous than they already are in Christ. It does not free them from the fight against sin and the discipline of obedience. Instead, slow but steady sanctification assures them, despite the struggles and battles along the journey, that Christ is bringing them to glory. That kind of sanctification teaching keeps us from adding stuff that distorts the power of the gospel.

Read carefully @Episkopos.

J.

 

[Lizbeth]

That wilfulness is the stubbornness of immature believers who refuse wisdom and chase after folly. In our time these abound. A person that can't be discipled is of no use at all to the Lord...rather so many rely on silly schemes that line up with their own imaginations and preferences.

Except that "stubbornness of immature believers who refuse wisdom" isn't what that verse is talking about.

Yes, there may be those who are stubborn, but there also may be those who are just not ready for meatier things yet....and also it might be that you are the one who hasn't got all his ducks lined up properly and that's why some can't receive what you are saying. My opinion is that you'd be well advised to reserve judgment instead of judging.

You are confusing grace with mercy or forgiveness...as so many do. We need God's grace to overcome as Jesus did...and give us ALWAYS the victory over sin as Paul states.

Grace encompasses more than one thing. It's from the word grace that we get the word gracious. For example being gracious to overlook someone's foibles or forgive their hurtful manner of speaking, etc. That is the grace/graciousness that the Lord extends to His children who believe in His Son.

 

[Episkopos]

View attachment 50224

Some Errors Avoided by a Right Doctrine of Sanctification - Founders Ministries

My sermon betrayed the gospel. I was young, a-theological, and gripped by legalism. That toxic mix led to a litany of don’ts with no hint of the power of the cross, standing with Christ, or certainty of the believer’s sanctification. Instead, it left the hearers with more stuff to do if they...

founders.org

The deeper life. Deeper life adherents hold a range of views: the most extreme in perfectionism, the Keswick teaching of full surrender, and the Pentecostal and charismatic view of the second blessing, among others. If we lump them all together under the category of deeper life, their unwitting error is twofold.

First, Jesus and his redemptive work is not enough.

The redemptive work of Christ is for the whole world collectively and for the individual it is empowering the soul (inner man) to overcome sin as Jesus did. To confuse what is general with what is specific leads people to disregard the higher calling in Christ...for the individual...instead falling back on the general redemption of mankind and claiming that for oneself...for no biblical reason.

The individual salvation is now. The general salvation is for the righteous on judgment day...based on inheriting life in the future.

The saints will rule over the righteous forever.

It’s enough for dealing with God’s wrath but inadequate for daily living in the outworking of the gospel’s saving purpose and power. In their framework, sanctification becomes an additional experience sought through acts of full surrender or dying to self or “psychological passivity” or baptism of the Spirit leading to a deeper dimension of Christianity unknown by most.[7] Yet this extra experience falters at Paul’s declaration, “In Him you have been made complete” (Colossians 2:10).

Entering into Christ gives us the fulness of His grace in resurrection life. We are made complete IN Him. Not in a general way...but in a specific experience of grace for the individual. The outcome is the power over sin...to walk as Jesus walked.

1 John 1:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Second, the Christian life is focused on a personal crisis experience by which a new level of spirituality is reached, instead of a continuing journey of obedience (James 1:19–25), exercising spiritual disciplines (1 Timothy 4:6–16; 6:11–16), utilizing the means of grace (1 Timothy 4:13), living out the gospel in community (Ephesians 4–5), and receiving God’s discipline (Hebrews 12:1–11) until Christ is formed in us (Galatians 4:19).

This is good for the righteousness level of obedience even to being led by the Spirit. This is still in the wilderness part of the walk. Without an actual taste of the Promised Land, people will settle for far less than what is expected of a disciple.

While many godly people past and present hold aspects this view, it fails to rely upon the certainty of sanctification provided through Christ’s redemptive work and its application by the Holy Spirit pointing us to sufficiency in Christ.[8] It puts emphasis on an extra experience beyond faith in Christ, relying far too much on the level of one’s surrender or the intensity of his faith. One’s standing is elevated by the deeper life experience rather than forever settled in Christ.

2. Fundamentalism/legalism. Quite simply, while intending to give attention to obedience—which is assured in sanctification—legalism turns obedience into an external standard of acceptance. It shows unfortunate kinship with the Roman Catholic errors on sanctification.[9] The legalist measures his standing with God by the strictness of adherence to law—and what is added to law—rather than relying upon the righteousness of Christ alone (see Paul’s counter argument in Galatians). Legalism is performance driven. If one performs well, God is pleased; but slip-up, fail to meet the established expectations, then one falls into divine disfavor. Self-sanctification replaces the certainty of Christ’s sanctifying work by the Spirit. Instead of hope fixed on Christ, attention shifts to a sort-of fundamentalist targums—a brand of legalism as the standard for Christianity. But where is the sufficiency of Christ in the gospel? For all but the most self-righteous, it leaves a wake of guilt, despair, and fear.

3. Presumption leading to antinomianism. Sanctification in Christ does not exclude ongoing obedience (Ephesians 2:10; Philippians 2:12–13; Titus 2:11–14). Yet some presume upon sanctification in Christ and grace given as a license to indulge in whatever one desires. Paul tackled this problem in Romans 6, explaining that those who have become “obedient from the heart” have been freed from sin—as the controlling power in life—and now become “slaves of righteousness” (6:17–18). Consequently, those living in the grace of God have all the more reason to fight sin and to live as those alive from the dead (6:12–14). Instead of presumption, a proper understanding of sanctification leads to a spiritual warfare posture that recognizes the power of indwelling sin, while relying upon the effectiveness of Christ’s redemptive work in its application to daily life (Ephesians 6:10–20). That is the sanctified life.

Conclusion

Those “possessed by God” through Christ, to use Peterson’s phrase, are given the power and motivation to live in holiness. Their standing with God remains fixed in Christ. So their practice in sanctification doesn’t elevate them to a higher life. It cannot account them more righteous than they already are in Christ. It does not free them from the fight against sin and the discipline of obedience. Instead, slow but steady sanctification assures them, despite the struggles and battles along the journey, that Christ is bringing them to glory. That kind of sanctification teaching keeps us from adding stuff that distorts the power of the gospel.

Read carefully @Episkopos.

J.

must run for now....

 

[Johann]

Except that "stubbornness of immature believers who refuse wisdom" isn't what that verse is talking about.

Yes, there may be those who are stubborn, but there also may be those who are just not ready for meatier things yet....and also it might be that you are the one who hasn't got all his ducks lined up properly and that's why some can't receive what you are saying. My opinion is that you'd be well advised to reserve judgment instead of judging.


Grace encompasses more than one thing. It's from the word grace that we get the word gracious. For example being gracious to overlook someone's foibles or forgive their hurtful manner of speaking, etc. That is the grace/graciousness that the Lord extends to His children who believe in His Son.

Simply put, it’s hard to accept what he's saying because he’s in denial about a lot of key teachings-sanctification being one of them. So yes, those who follow the truth won’t align themselves with teachings that are like wood, stubble, and hay. How could they?

Just my 2 cents.
J.

 

[Johann]

The redemptive work of Christ is for the whole world collectively and for the individual it is empowering the soul (inner man) to overcome sin as Jesus did. To confuse what is general with what is specific leads people to disregard the higher calling in Christ...for the individual...instead falling back on the general redemption of mankind and claiming that for oneself...for no biblical reason.

The individual salvation is now. The general salvation is for the righteous on judgment day...based on inheriting life in the future.

The saints will rule over the righteous forever.


Entering into Christ gives us the fulness of His grace in resurrection life. We are made complete IN Him. Not in a general way...but in a specific experience of grace for the individual. The outcome is the power over sin...to walk as Jesus walked.

1 John 1:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



This is good for the righteousness level of obedience even to being led by the Spirit. This is still in the wilderness part of the walk. Without an actual taste of the Promised Land, people will settle for far less than what is expected of a disciple.

must run for now....

Thanks for your response brother.
J.

 

[Johann]

1 John 1:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 1:6 eanG1437 COND eipOmenG3004 V-2AAS-1P otiG3754 CONJ koinOnianG2842 N-ASF echomenG2192 V-PAI-1P metG3326 PREP autouG846 P-GSM kaiG2532 CONJ enG1722 PREP tOG3588 T-DSN skoteiG4655 N-DSN peripatOmenG4043 V-PAS-1P pseudomethaG5574 V-PEI-1P kaiG2532 CONJ ouG3756 PRT-N poioumenG4160 V-PAI-1P tEnG3588 T-ASF alEtheianG225 N-ASF

Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: Present G5774
Voice: Either Middle or Passive G5787
Mood: Indicative G5791
Person: First [we].

If we say (ean eipōmen). Condition of third class with ean and second aorist (ingressive, up and say) active subjunctive. Claiming fellowship with God (see 1Jn_1:3) involves walking in the light with God (1Jn_1:5) and not in the darkness (skotos here, but skotia in Joh_1:5). See 1Jn_2:11 also for en tēi skotiāi peripateō.
We lie (pseudometha). Present middle indicative, plain Greek and plain English like that about the devil in Joh_8:44.
Do not the truth (ou poioumen tēn alētheian). Negative statement of the positive pseudometha as in Joh_8:44. See Joh_3:21 for “doing the truth,” like Neh_9:33.
RWP.

In full agreement here @Episkopos -I could parse the other verses but you get my drift.

J.

 

[Episkopos]

Except that "stubbornness of immature believers who refuse wisdom" isn't what that verse is talking about.

Not so. It is those who are always learning but never come to the knowledge of the truth...or who have a FORM of godliness but deny the power thereof.....these are the stubborn ones that reflect the same thing that the Jews of old had...a stiffness of neck...a wilfull sin.

What it is not is a canal believer who engages in fleshly sins. Again the soulish sins of religion are worse. If you don;t get that read about how Jesus condemned the Pharisees...saying that their sin remained because they claimed something that wasn't true...thereby spoiling righteousness.

A wilfull child is not one who reads dirty books or sets fire to things. It is a child who doesn't listen to instruction.

Yes, there may be those who are stubborn, but there also may be those who are just not ready for meatier things yet....and also it might be that you are the one who hasn't got all his ducks lined up properly and that's why some can't receive what you are saying. My opinion is that you'd be well advised to reserve judgment instead of judging.

I am judging righteous judgment as I seek to preserve the righteousness of the righteous. Spoiled and immature believers need the fear of the Lord to avoid condemnation. It's not just about outside sins...sinning begins in the heart. A heart that is NOT right with God is worse for claiming to be righteous than a person who sins outwardly without the added sin of self-justification before God.

Grace encompasses more than one thing. It's from the word grace that we get the word gracious.

You have to read the bible and not just dictionaries. The bible says that grace is deceitful. Sheker ha-chen.

For example being gracious to overlook someone's foibles or forgive their hurtful manner of speaking, etc.

That's an attitude of love...and grace in human terms. But God's grace is something far more specific. It is the power ...as a gift...unto salvation. The power us-ward who believe. You may need many more years of deeper study to overcome that understanding. But just one minute in Zion would turn that around.

That is the grace/graciousness that the Lord extends to His children who believe in His Son.

Judgment begins at God's house. God is very hard on those who call themselves by His Name. To whom much is given MORE is required. So you have it backward. God chastens HARD those whom He loves.

Religious speculation aside, judgment is going to be a very big surprise to everyone. There will be rejoicing among the humble...but tears and anger among the religiously certain ones.

 

[Johann]

What did john remind the church was the TWO commandments . TO BELIEVE BELIEVE BELEIVE on JESUS THE CHRIST
and to love one another . TRY reminding EPI about the BELEIVING part .
What is that which is of anti christ . He who denies that JESUS is THE CHRIST .
HE who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON , IS CALLING GOD A LIAR .
WHERE DO A LIAR END UP . WHERE do those who love and make a lie end up .
THE TRUE GOSPEL is TOO darn important to be ever once overlooked . I AINT GONNA DO IT .
Epi is dangerous . The man refuses to even preach YE MUST FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
That alone is deadly dangerous and total blasphemy .

I’m not afraid to venture into challenging discussions, even where it might be uncomfortable, and I still see @Episkopos as a brother in Christ. None of us can claim to have our theology perfectly figured out-we read the Bible, but it’s often in the exegesis and interpretation where things can get tricky.

As for me, I don’t believe in calling others blasphemers or condemning them harshly, especially online. Many people talk the walk without fully walking the talk, and I’ve been shown much mercy and grace myself, so I choose to extend that same grace to him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m not afraid to venture into challenging discussions, even where it might be uncomfortable, and I still see @Episkopos as a brother in Christ. None of us can claim to have our theology perfectly figured out-we read the Bible, but it’s often in the exegesis and interpretation where things can get tricky.

As for me, I don’t believe in calling others blasphemers or condemning them harshly, especially online. Many people talk the walk without fully walking the talk, and I’ve been shown much mercy and grace myself, so I choose to extend that same grace to him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

J.

 

[Johann]

You have to read the bible and not just dictionaries. The bible says that grace is deceitful. Sheker ha-chen.

Not so-a little knowledge of Hebrew is dangerous.

Your statement is not correct. The Bible does not say that grace itself is deceitful. The confusion likely arises from a misunderstanding of Proverbs 31:30, which in the Hebrew reads:

שֶׁקֶר הַחֵן וְהֶבֶל הַיֹּפִי; אִשָּׁה יִרְאַת-יְהוָה, הִיא תִתְהַלָּל
("Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing, but a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised." - Proverbs 31:30, NKJV)


Pro 31:30 Charm [Hebrew “The charm”] is deceit and beauty [Hebrew “the beauty”] is vain; [Or “vapor,” or “emptiness,” or “breath”]
but a woman who fears Yahweh shall be praised.

Pro 31:30 Chen (charm) is sheker (deceitful), and yofi (beauty) is fleeting; but an isha Yirat Hashem (a G-d fearing wife), she shall be praised.
Pro 31:30 [is false Allurement], and [vain beauty] it is not in you. [woman For a discerning] is blessed; [the fear and of the LORD let her praise]!

Pro 31:30 pseudeisG5571 A-NPF areskeiaiG699 N-NPF kaiG2532 CONJ mataionG3152 A-NSN kallos N-NSN gunaikosG1135 N-GSF gunEG1135 N-NSF garG1063 PRT sunetEG4908 A-NSF eulogeitaiG2127 V-PMI-3S phobonG5401 N-ASM deG1161 PRT kuriouG2962 N-GSM autEG3778 D-NSF aineitOG134 V-PAD-3S

In this verse, the Hebrew word שֶׁקֶר (sheker), meaning "deceit," is applied to חֵן (chen), often translated as "charm" or "grace," and יֹּפִי (yofi), meaning "beauty." The point being made is not that grace (or charm) itself is inherently deceitful, but that outward charm or beauty can be misleading or superficial, while the true value lies in the fear of the Lord.

This passage encourages us to look beyond surface-level attributes, such as charm or beauty, and to value inner qualities, like godliness and reverence for God.

Now read the context @Episkopos.

J.

 

[Johann]

I didn't know A.I. can generate video clips?

J.

 

[Lizbeth]

instead falling back on the general redemption of mankind

Psa 37:7-22

Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.

For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.

The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.

For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.


Psa 49:12

Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.

Psa 49:20

Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.

2Pe 2:12

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m not afraid to venture into challenging discussions, even where it might be uncomfortable, and I still see @Episkopos as a brother in Christ. None of us can claim to have our theology perfectly figured out-we read the Bible, but it’s often in the exegesis and interpretation where things can get tricky.

As for me, I don’t believe in calling others blasphemers or condemning them harshly, especially online. Many people talk the walk without fully walking the talk, and I’ve been shown much mercy and grace myself, so I choose to extend that same grace to him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

J.

How did Epi get saved, how was he born again?

 

[Marvelloustime]

 

[Johann]

How did Epi get saved, how was he born again?

I don't know brother, I can't read his heart.
J.

 

[Episkopos]

My feet are firmly planted on a solid foundation, not on diverse and heterodox teachings. I keep forgetting that you rely on experiences rather than the written Word. My question was valid, and you avoided addressing it.

The letter kills, the Spirit gives life. My experiences as you say transcend words.

That's what you implying, that no sinner, once reborn- can have a relationship with God in Christ Jesus, sealed with the Holy Spirit and KNOW they have eternal life.

That's not what I said. The error is in assuming and presuming without experiencing the eternal life. How can a person have something they don't yet have?

Incorrect @Episkopos
You are misunderstanding the passage. Paul does not suggest that others are ahead of him in faith or walking in a state of sinless perfection. In fact, Philippians 3:12 makes it clear that Paul acknowledges he has not yet attained perfection: "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on." The phrase "as many as are perfect" in Philippians 3:15 (NKJV) refers to maturity in Christ, not sinless perfection. Paul is speaking about spiritual growth and maturity, not a state of absolute perfection. He encourages believers to continually strive for greater spiritual maturity, acknowledging that full perfection will only come in the resurrection.

Scriptural clarification:
Philippians 3:12 (NKJV) clearly emphasizes Paul's acknowledgment that he has not yet reached perfection. The word "perfected" refers to the completion or fullness of Christ's work in believers, which Paul knows is still in progress.

Philippians 3:15 (NKJV): "Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you."

The word "perfect" here (translated as "mature" in many versions) refers to spiritual maturity, not sinless perfection. Paul is addressing those who are growing in Christ and striving toward deeper spiritual understanding, rather than implying that any have reached ultimate perfection in this life.
Paul’s words consistently reflect an ongoing process of sanctification, where believers are called to mature in faith but recognize that full perfection will not be attained until Christ's return (Philippians 3:21).

Sanctification-of the which you are in denial.

I deny a sinful holiness. Too many today have no experience of holiness...only what they surmise from reading ABOUT holiness...without any understanding. It's funny that you see experience of something as less valid than theories made up by enthusiasts.

Soldiers who have been to war are called veterans. These have EXPERIENCE of war. You would have raw recruits teach those veterans about war in your scheme because they have NO experience...just army manuals. You are upside down in logic and understanding.

Not at all-I stand with the written Word of God, while you rely on experiences contrary to what is written.

false. I prayed to Go from the written word...that quickened faith to cry out to God...and the living God responded. You need to learn how to use the bible you say justifies you WITHOUT any experience of its contents.

Your logic is fully backward. Much better to KNOW God than to read about Him. Read Job where He says...

“I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You." Job 42:5

In your scheme Job went backwards?

Matthew 4:4 (NKJV): "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
You "cut out sanctification" and deny those seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ, our High Priest, Prophet, and King, who is ever making intercession for us, along with the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 12:14 (NKJV): "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord."

Hebrews 7:25 (NKJV): "Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."

Romans 8:26-27 (NKJV): "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

Shalom.
J.

Jesus says that He will manifest Himself to those who love Him.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

So you are standing against love and actual connection to God for real. Is it jealousy?

I have much experience of the Lord this way. At one time disciples would have thought a blessing. But people today don't know from Adam.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't know brother, I can't read his heart.
J.

then how can you KNOW he is your brother in Christ?

I would personally want to make a claim I could not verify. if he is not your brother in reality, you could be leading him astray