Orthodoxy vs "The Way".

[Episkopos]

Right here is where I would disagree-

Your assertion that a "constant sinner is only looking for forgiveness and how to exploit Jesus for himself" reflects a misunderstanding of sin, repentance, and the nature of grace in the biblical context.

Misunderstanding of Grace and Forgiveness
Your statement implies that seeking forgiveness repeatedly is a selfish act or an attempt to exploit Jesus. However, the Bible teaches that God's grace is abundant and that forgiveness is not something one can exhaust through repeated requests. In Matthew 18:21-22, Peter asks Jesus how many times he should forgive someone who sins against him, suggesting seven times. Jesus responds, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven,” emphasizing that forgiveness is limitless, just as God’s grace is (also seen in 1 John 1:9). God does not see a genuine sinner seeking forgiveness as exploitative but rather as part of their journey of repentance and growth in sanctification.

Human Nature and the Need for Ongoing Repentance
Human beings are imperfect and prone to sin, even after salvation (Romans 7:15-25). The Apostle Paul talks about his own struggles with sin and how, despite his best efforts, he sometimes falls short. A Christian, though justified by faith, will still battle with sin. The continual coming to Jesus for forgiveness is not about exploitation but about recognizing one's need for His redemptive work daily. 1 John 2:1 also addresses this: "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

True Repentance vs. Exploitation
While some may misuse grace as an excuse for continuing in sin, the Bible differentiates between true repentance and false repentance. In Romans 6:1-2, Paul addresses the notion of abusing grace: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!" True repentance involves a genuine change of heart and mind, a turning away from sin and towards God (Luke 13:3). Exploiting forgiveness without repentance would be insincere, but to claim that anyone who seeks forgiveness often is automatically doing this is not biblically accurate.

Jesus’ Response to the Broken and Needy
Jesus demonstrates a heart of compassion towards sinners who come to Him seeking forgiveness. In Matthew 9:12-13, Jesus says, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." Jesus’ entire mission involved bringing forgiveness to those who continually fall short of the glory of God, offering hope for those struggling with habitual sin.

Biblical Correction
Rather than viewing a constant sinner seeking forgiveness as an exploitation of Christ, it’s essential to understand that God's grace is abundant, and He desires for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). The biblical response should not be to judge the sinner’s motives but to encourage genuine repentance and trust in God’s transformative power through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2).

God’s forgiveness is always available, but it is meant to lead to sanctification and growth in holiness.

Now I hope you can accept the correction as a brother.
Unless, of course, you hold to theosis.
J.

Those who champion an ongoing unconditional forgiveness know nothing of the fear of the Lord nor the grace of the Lord that brings people into holiness. This is not a bible issue but a religious dogmatic scheme conjured up by a misreading of the bible. The very Spirit that is required to walk in holiness is also required to understand the text that is pointing to it.

 

[Episkopos]

Sadly, The op does not understand that a person who is born of God will not be a constant, habitual sinner.

The apostle john destroys this thinking totally. But he refuses to look to the word.

Someone who is truly born from heaven does not champion an unconditional forgiveness...but rather champions a fear of the Lord INTO a walk in victory over sin by the resurrection life of Christ that he/she has experienced.

All this religious theorizing comes from the flesh. There is no power there...but to make things much worse on judgment day.

 

[Johann]

Sadly, The op does not understand that a person who is born of God will not be a constant, habitual sinner.

The apostle john destroys this thinking totally. But he refuses to look to the word.

Long time no hear brother @Eternally Grateful?

And correct you are, true believers do not abide in a STATE of habitual sin, doesn't mean we are "sinlessly perfect and have reached a state of theosis."

John emphasizes that those who are born of God will not live in continuous, habitual sin, because of the transforming work of the Holy Spirit within them. Here are several key scriptures from John that support this view:

1 John 3:6 (NKJV)
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

This verse highlights that those who are truly abiding in Christ will not live in a constant state of sin. The Greek verb for "sin" here is in the present tense, implying a continuous or habitual action. Therefore, John is not suggesting that Christians will never commit individual acts of sin, but that they will not live in a pattern of ongoing sinfulness.
1 John 3:9 (NKJV)
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

John again uses the present tense for sin, meaning habitual sinning. The phrase “His seed remains in him” refers to the Holy Spirit, who dwells within the believer, transforming them and making it impossible for them to live in habitual sin.
1 John 5:18 (NKJV)
"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him."

This verse emphasizes that a person born of God is kept safe from the power of sin and the influence of the wicked one, Satan. The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit empowers the believer to resist a lifestyle of sin.
1 John 2:29 (NKJV)
"If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him."

A defining mark of being born of God is the practice of righteousness, not sin. John contrasts living in sin with practicing righteousness, demonstrating that those who truly belong to God will live a life reflecting His holiness.
1 John 3:7-8 (NKJV)
"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."

Here, John warns against deception, pointing out that a lifestyle of sin is aligned with the devil. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, which includes freeing believers from a pattern of sin.


John consistently teaches that those who are born of God are no longer slaves to habitual sin because they are transformed by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
This does not mean believers are sinless, but they do not live in a state of continuous sin without repentance.
The seed of God, or the presence of the Holy Spirit, ensures that believers cannot remain in sin as a lifestyle.

In response to Your Statement @Eternally Grateful

The opposition you mention seems to stem from a misunderstanding of these teachings. As you correctly pointed out, John’s epistle shows that habitual sin is incompatible with being born of God. It might be worth encouraging the person to study these passages in context, showing the clear contrast John makes between a life led by the Spirit and a life led by sin.
Finally, Galatians 5:16 (NKJV) instructs: "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." This verse shows the reality that as we continually live by the Spirit’s power, we are enabled to resist sin, aligning our lives more closely with the righteousness of God.

Though we may still sin occasionally (as seen in 1 John 1:8), we are called and empowered to live a life where habitual sin is not our practice. The Holy Spirit gives us victory over sin, pointing us toward living as Christ did.

Though I must add, we can live a life where we are potentially sinless, not because we never stumble, but because of the work of the Holy Spirit within us. Scripture is crystal clear on this point.

J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Someone who is truly born from heaven does not champion an unconditional forgiveness...but rather champions a fear of the Lord INTO a walk in victory over sin by the resurrection life of Christ that he/she has experienced.

Your right.

thats why they can;t live in sin, whoever lives in sin has never seen or known him. So why do you not get this?

All this religious theorizing comes from the flesh. There is no power there...but to make things much worse on judgment day.

Yes. Your religious theorizing comes from your flesh. It has to be you. Not God..

 

[Episkopos]

Long time no hear brother @Eternally Grateful?

And correct you are, true believers do not abide in a STATE of habitual sin, doesn't mean we are "sinlessly perfect and have reached a state of theosis."

John emphasizes that those who are born of God will not live in continuous, habitual sin, because of the transforming work of the Holy Spirit within them. Here are several key scriptures from John that support this view:

1 John 3:6 (NKJV)
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

This verse highlights that those who are truly abiding in Christ will not live in a constant state of sin. The Greek verb for "sin" here is in the present tense, implying a continuous or habitual action. Therefore, John is not suggesting that Christians will never commit individual acts of sin, but that they will not live in a pattern of ongoing sinfulness.
1 John 3:9 (NKJV)
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

John again uses the present tense for sin, meaning habitual sinning. The phrase “His seed remains in him” refers to the Holy Spirit, who dwells within the believer, transforming them and making it impossible for them to live in habitual sin.
1 John 5:18 (NKJV)
"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him."

This verse emphasizes that a person born of God is kept safe from the power of sin and the influence of the wicked one, Satan. The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit empowers the believer to resist a lifestyle of sin.
1 John 2:29 (NKJV)
"If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him."

A defining mark of being born of God is the practice of righteousness, not sin. John contrasts living in sin with practicing righteousness, demonstrating that those who truly belong to God will live a life reflecting His holiness.
1 John 3:7-8 (NKJV)
"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."

Here, John warns against deception, pointing out that a lifestyle of sin is aligned with the devil. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, which includes freeing believers from a pattern of sin.


John consistently teaches that those who are born of God are no longer slaves to habitual sin because they are transformed by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
This does not mean believers are sinless, but they do not live in a state of continuous sin without repentance.
The seed of God, or the presence of the Holy Spirit, ensures that believers cannot remain in sin as a lifestyle.

In response to Your Statement @Eternally Grateful

The opposition you mention seems to stem from a misunderstanding of these teachings. As you correctly pointed out, John’s epistle shows that habitual sin is incompatible with being born of God. It might be worth encouraging the person to study these passages in context, showing the clear contrast John makes between a life led by the Spirit and a life led by sin.
Finally, Galatians 5:16 (NKJV) instructs: "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." This verse shows the reality that as we continually live by the Spirit’s power, we are enabled to resist sin, aligning our lives more closely with the righteousness of God.

Though we may still sin occasionally (as seen in 1 John 1:8), we are called and empowered to live a life where habitual sin is not our practice. The Holy Spirit gives us victory over sin, pointing us toward living as Christ did.

Though I must add, we can live a life where we are potentially sinless, not because we never stumble, but because of the work of the Holy Spirit within us. Scripture is crystal clear on this point.

J.

The Pharisees also justified themselves for not having the same TYPE of habitual sins...obvious carnal sins...as the crowd. No, their sins were much worse. Jesus condemned the religious hypocrites far more than outward sinners. He said that carnal sinners enter the kingdom faster than the religious self-justifying types. (Or those who claim to be justified by their beliefs ABOUT God)

So then the habitual sins of religious people are based on pride and hypocrisy. Twisting the bible to justify that kind of sinning makes a person at least as corrupt as the Pharisees...but because of Christ, the sin is greater still.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Pharisees also justified themselves for not having the same TYPE of habitual sins...obvious carnal sins...as the crowd. No, their sins were much worse. Jesus condemned the religious hypocrites far more than outward sinners. He said that carnal sinners enter the kingdom faster than the religious self-justifying types. (Or those who claim to be justified by their beliefs ABOUT God)

So then the habitual sins of religious people are based on pride and hypocrisy. Twisting the bible to justify that kind of sinning makes a person at least as corrupt as the Pharisees...but because of Christ, the sin is greater still.

The pharisees, like you, denied they had any sin. and denied that they needed the cross. So they, like you Mock Jesus who told them, and you, how sinful they really were so They/you would repent. Some of them did (Nicodemus and a man names Saul who became paul.

Sadly. many did not. and still have not even until today.. as we see here..

 

[Marvelloustime]

yet it sure dont seem that many even bother to remind folks about the DIRE NEED to FIRST BELEIVE ON HIM .
thus that means they do not preach CHRIST . at best they preach mans way of trying to crucify himself .
I still aint seen that man repent one bit about this . So he can preach away all day
but if one believes NOT ON JESUS the CHRIST it aint gonna profit that man one bit . so i say
its actually time to preach JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED and not rather , as some do , no need to beleive on JESUS , just
pick up your cross and crucify yourself . Now you know i didnt say that about you my friend .
But another gospel , any other gospel than the one orginally delivered by the true apostels
is no gospel we better once heed . let them be accursed . if even I preached another gospel , then you got to seperate
company from me . Its time we take the gospel serious again . The one thing , the one NAME that saves
IS the NAME folks better BELIEVE ON , JESUS THE CHRIST , the rest comes after that .

Brother is spotted.

 

[Episkopos]

The pharisees, like you, denied they had any sin. and denied that they needed the cross. So they, like you Mock Jesus who told them, and you, how sinful they really were so They/you would repent. Some of them did (Nicodemus and a man names Saul who became paul.

Sadly. many did not. and still have not even until today.. as we see here..

A circular silly argument. First you say that BAC's don't sin habitually...than you say you do sin and need to sin because of another misunderstanding of the bible. basically you are interpreting the bible to defend yourself...the ego.

You think repentance is into less sinning? How much sin justifies you or disqualifies you?

Is the wages of sin still death?

Does the soul that sins still die?

Go ahead and invent a scheme that you can be comfortable with.

 

[Episkopos]

Brother is spotted.

And needs to be cleansed from every spot of sin. How? By grace through faith into a walk that is IN Christ.

 

[Marvelloustime]

yet it sure dont seem that many even bother to remind folks about the DIRE NEED to FIRST BELEIVE ON HIM .
thus that means they do not preach CHRIST . at best they preach mans way of trying to crucify himself .
I still aint seen that man repent one bit about this . So he can preach away all day
but if one believes NOT ON JESUS the CHRIST it aint gonna profit that man one bit . so i say
its actually time to preach JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED and not rather , as some do , no need to beleive on JESUS , just
pick up your cross and crucify yourself . Now you know i didnt say that about you my friend .
But another gospel , any other gospel than the one orginally delivered by the true apostels
is no gospel we better once heed . let them be accursed . if even I preached another gospel , then you got to seperate
company from me . Its time we take the gospel serious again . The one thing , the one NAME that saves
IS the NAME folks better BELIEVE ON , JESUS THE CHRIST , the rest comes after that .

 

[Johann]

Those who champion an ongoing unconditional forgiveness know nothing of the fear of the Lord nor the grace of the Lord that brings people into holiness. This is not a bible issue but a religious dogmatic scheme conjured up by a misreading of the bible. The very Spirit that is required to walk in holiness is also required to understand the text that is pointing to it.

Is this what you are thinking of?

On the Fear of the Lord:
Proverbs 1:7 (NKJV): "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
This verse reminds us that a proper reverence for God is foundational for understanding His truth. Forgiveness is not a license to continue in sin but is accompanied by a holy fear of displeasing God.

On Grace Leading to Holiness:
Titus 2:11-12 (NKJV): "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age."
Grace does not just forgive sin but teaches us to live in holiness, rejecting ungodliness.

On Misreading Scripture:
2 Peter 3:16 (NKJV): "...which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."
Misreading Scripture without the guidance of the Holy Spirit leads to error, as Peter warns about twisting the text for personal or doctrinal purposes.

On the Holy Spirit's Role in Understanding:
John 16:13 (NKJV): "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..."
The Holy Spirit not only helps us walk in holiness but also guides our understanding of God’s Word.

I do believe when the sinner is drawn by God and the Holy Spirit it is not that he/she "can only LOOK to forgiveness and HOW to exploit Messiah" but IS saved-2 Aorist, becoming something he/she was not before, a new creature IN Christ Jesus, born again!
Surely you should agree with the Scripture and not brush it off as mere dogmatism!

God, in His mercy and grace, justifies the ungodly-not on the basis of their own efforts, but solely through faith in Christ.

Key points with Scripture:

Justification by faith, not works: Romans 4:5 emphasizes that it is not by human efforts or righteousness that one is justified, but by faith in the God who justifies the ungodly.

Romans 5:8-9 (NKJV): "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him."

God’s justification is rooted in Christ’s atoning work, not in our righteousness.
- God's act of justifying the ungodly reflects His grace, extended through faith in Christ, and not dependent on human goodness or works.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Why are so few walking by faith...in the "way" that is in Christ? Unless one walks by grace through faith one cannot understand walking in BOTH the fear of God AND the comfort of the Spirit. Both at the same time. Entering the righteousness of God by abiding in Christ doesn't eliminate human righteousness...it empowers it. Faith upholds the law. The Spirit fulfills righteousness. Only in Christ are both mercy AND truth upheld. People will gravitate to one or the other...but not both. One needs to be in the Spirit to see the kingdom realm of God. But seeing in the Spirit doesn't mean we bump into walls or temporal objects. In Christ our focus is afar in the Spirit, but we can still see things in this world...only out of focus.

In Christ our eyes are drawn to what (the eternal realm of the Spirit) or who (the Lord) we love. If we love this world then the love of Christ is not in us. If we love Christ MORE than this world then our eyes will remain fixed on Him. Then, we will do and act just like Jesus. That is what leadership in the church is about. That is what it means to be a saint in this world.

no man born of woman can walk in THE WAY of CHRIST if they BELIEVE NOT FIRST in JESUS THE CHRIST .
Always remember that epi . And no man who walks in the way of Christ would follow another religoin or mindset .
And if one uses the name of Christ and claims to believe in Him and yet its lip only then this person also knows not Christ nor
walks in the way of Christ .
In the end no matter how often folks talked about THE SPIRIT , the WAY , the etc
if that man does not FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST , then they do not have the SPIRIT
nor walk in the way of CHRIST . Thus all other religoins are false and Faith in CHRIST is what all must be told .
Just like they all preached EPI . JESUS and the apostels all reminded and all pointed to BELIEF in JESUS THE CHRIST
and taught many good things . We cant pick and choose what version of JESUS to follow . Either we beleive IN HIM
and thus BELIEVE HIS words , the truth , or we deceive and have decieved ourselves .
SO who is walking in the WAY , THOSE WHOSE FAITH BE IN JESUS THE CHRIST , WHO BELIEVE ON HIM.
They believe in HIM and they beleive HIM . we better start preaching the one true gospel epi
and all things HE did teach .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A circular silly argument. First you say that BAC's don't sin habitually...than you say you do sin and need to sin because of another misunderstanding of the bible. basically you are interpreting the bible to defend yourself...the ego.

See, Here you go again watering down the law

They don't sin Habitually. that is not me speaking, that is the apostle John speaking. a child of God can not act like the world living in sin.

That does not mean they keep the law. The law required perfection. (whoever keep the whole law yet STUMBLES in one point is guilty of all) Saying and confessing one can not keep the law is not saying or confessing you can or will LIVE IN SIN.

But hey, go on pumping your chest like a pharisee and water down the law. and refuse to repent. thats on you. Not me.

You think repentance is into less sinning? How much sin justifies you or disqualifies you?

1 sin would disqualify me, And it does not even have to be on purpose. If I even stumble or trip over my flesh and give in. I am guilty.

Is the wages of sin still death?

Does the soul that sins still die?

Go ahead and invent a scheme that you can be comfortable with.

Thats why we are under grace not works.

You want to try to work to earn your salvation by how good you are and watering down the law. Feel free.

But you think you are going to preach that heresy without opposition. think again. God will appose you

 

[Johann]

The Pharisees also justified themselves for not having the same TYPE of habitual sins...obvious carnal sins...as the crowd. No, their sins were much worse. Jesus condemned the religious hypocrites far more than outward sinners. He said that carnal sinners enter the kingdom faster than the religious self-justifying types. (Or those who claim to be justified by their beliefs ABOUT God)

So then the habitual sins of religious people are based on pride and hypocrisy. Twisting the bible to justify that kind of sinning makes a person at least as corrupt as the Pharisees...but because of Christ, the sin is greater still.

Are you claiming that you are sinless in word, thought, and deed? Many here assert this, believing they have reached a state of absolute perfection and that they partake in God's essence and substance.


On the impossibility of sinless perfection in this life:
1 John 1:8 (NKJV): "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

This verse highlights that no one can claim absolute sinlessness, as even believers continue to wrestle with sin.
On human imperfection and ongoing sanctification:
Philippians 3:12 (NKJV): "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me."

Even the Apostle Paul recognized that he had not yet reached perfection, emphasizing the ongoing process of sanctification.
On partaking in God’s nature:
2 Peter 1:4 (NKJV): "...by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

While believers partake in the divine nature through God’s promises, this does not mean becoming one with God’s essence or attaining sinless perfection in this life. It refers to being transformed by His Spirit and escaping the sinful corruption of the world.
This correction clarifies the distinction between striving for holiness and falsely claiming absolute perfection, which is inconsistent with biblical teaching.

Let me know @Episkopos.

And, Oh-the ECF' are not my source of authority.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

See, Here you go again watering down the law

They don't sin Habitually. that is not me speaking, that is the apostle John speaking. a child of God can not act like the world living in sin.

That does not mean they keep the law. The law required perfection. (whoever keep the whole law yet STUMBLES in one point is guilty of all) Saying and confessing one can not keep the law is not saying or confessing you can or will LIVE IN SIN.

But hey, go on pumping your chest like a pharisee and water down the law. and refuse to repent. thats on you. Not me.

1 sin would disqualify me, And it does not even have to be on purpose. If I even stumble or trip over my flesh and give in. I am guilty.



Thats why we are under grace not works.

You want to try to work to earn your salvation by how good you are and watering down the law. Feel free.

But you think you are going to preach that heresy without opposition. think again. God will appose you

The man believes another gospel . People can quoate certain truths and use those truths to promote a false gospel .
Look at how consistently he comes after me for saying YE MUST FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
that should be a mega major red flag that epi is in dire danger .
Try and get him to say ONE must FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . and that if they do not its all in vain .
TRY and get him to say this . Rather he preaches an concept that somehow one is walking in the way
and in the faith even without believing on JESUS the CHRIST . You go and examine what he says and you will find
this to be the case . I know where it comes from . ITs another gospel . its just another way to OMIT THE FACT
that one must FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . that is all this is about friend . Thus that makes it false bigtime .
Anyone who is walking IN THE WAY , IN THE FAITH , I PROMISE They have FIRST BELIEVED IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
THERE is no such thing as a born again person who denies JESUS IS THE CHRIST. IT DONT exist . only in epis mind do it exist .
But he is not alone friend . There are many more that are already beginning to beleive things like this .
The true gospel is under attack and fast being replaced with another RELIGIOUS teaching of men
about How we can so call do our own thing WITHOUT BELIEVING IN JESUS the CHRIST . its nothing more
than a establish your own righteousness by your own means . No man who is of JESUS THE CHRIST
would claim one does not have to first believe on HIM . No man who is born of the Spirit would call GOD a liar .
AND all other religoins do that . example . IF any believes NOT the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of HIS SON
they call GOD a liar . HENCE they DONT KNOW GOD at all . No born again man calls GOD A LIAR .
That is why inclusivism is so deadly . This is deadly and its dangerous and it do DENY JESUS the CHRIST .

 

[Episkopos]

Are you claiming that you are sinless in word, thought, and deed? Many here assert this, believing they have reached a state of absolute perfection and that they partake in God's essence and substance.

This shows a human understanding...based on not knowing what holiness entails. Most modern believers NEVER walk in the Spirit...in the perfection of Christ. All who enter INTO Christ walk as He walked without sin. In Him is no sin. You can try wrapping your mind around that and try to filter that through your experience up till now. But the level of faith or lack of faith will determine if you will ever know more of God than you presently do.

Did Peter walk on water? Would such an experience help to renew his mind about what is possible in Christ?

Unless you experience the miraculous walk that is by grace for yourself...you will go from pillar to post...exaggerating on one extreme or the other without finding the divine balance in Christ.

On the impossibility of sinless perfection in this life:
1 John 1:8 (NKJV): "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Right after that it says that he who sins doesn't know Him. Are you saying that no one can know God? So then you have to be more honest and balanced in your reading. Stop with the human understanding. ALL have sinned. Yes. But few walk as Jesus walked. Don't advocate for a continuing in sin.

This verse highlights that no one can claim absolute sinlessness, as even believers continue to wrestle with sin.
On human imperfection and ongoing sanctification:
Philippians 3:12 (NKJV): "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me."

Correction: Again you miss the point...Paul continues with "as many as BE perfect" ...so Paul saw others ahead of him in the faith...walking in Christ's perfection. Paul also experienced this...but was not in it at that time, hence "Not that I was perfected at THIS TIME"

Even the Apostle Paul recognized that he had not yet reached perfection, emphasizing the ongoing process of sanctification.
On partaking in God’s nature:
2 Peter 1:4 (NKJV): "...by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

While believers partake in the divine nature through God’s promises, this does not mean becoming one with God’s essence or attaining sinless perfection in this life. It refers to being transformed by His Spirit and escaping the sinful corruption of the world.
This correction clarifies the distinction between striving for holiness and falsely claiming absolute perfection, which is inconsistent with biblical teaching.

Let me know @Episkopos.

And, Oh-the ECF' are not my source of authority.

J.

You are diminishing the divine nature because you don't know it.

 

[Episkopos]

See, Here you go again watering down the law

They don't sin Habitually. that is not me speaking, that is the apostle John speaking. a child of God can not act like the world living in sin.

That does not mean they keep the law. The law required perfection. (whoever keep the whole law yet STUMBLES in one point is guilty of all) Saying and confessing one can not keep the law is not saying or confessing you can or will LIVE IN SIN.

But hey, go on pumping your chest like a pharisee and water down the law. and refuse to repent. thats on you. Not me.

1 sin would disqualify me, And it does not even have to be on purpose. If I even stumble or trip over my flesh and give in. I am guilty.



Thats why we are under grace not works.

You want to try to work to earn your salvation by how good you are and watering down the law. Feel free.

But you think you are going to preach that heresy without opposition. think again. God will appose you

You deny the power of grace. You think grace is God turning a blind eye to whoever is religious enough to claim His righteousness for himself.

We will not be judged by our religious beliefs...but what we did with what we have been given.

If sin disqualifies you then you are at God's mercy...or His condemnation. If you claim righteousness (especially God's righteousness) for yourself in sin...then you will be rejected.

You need to fear the Lord to begin to have any wisdom at all.

 

[Episkopos]

Following the "Way" that is in Christ means to be called out of every system of men into a full reliance on God in the Spirit for all things...even what is seen and heard...relying on God's counsel. Sometimes a person is called into a bigger net...a different denomination....for a time. A Catholic might be called to go to a Protestant place...or orthodox....or else vice versa.

But in the end we are called out of all systems to meet the Lord "outside the camp" bearing His reproach among diverted ones who don't know the Lord even as they judge and condemn...so as to bear the reproach of Christ.

The greatest secret in the world is the wonderful higher walk of faith in Zion...the eternal kingdom realm, where there is a divine intimacy with God. And yet this gospel needs to be preached...the good news of this reconciliation to God in a loving peace and life in resurrection power. And that power overcomes all sin. That walk is a holy one...to walk as Jesus walked.

Now let the crows squawk...

 

[Johann]

This shows a human understanding...based on not knowing what holiness entails. Most modern believers NEVER walk in the Spirit...in the perfection of Christ. All who enter INTO Christ walk as He walked without sin. In Him is no sin. You can try wrapping your mind around that and try to filter that through your experience up till now. But the level of faith or lack of faith will determine if you will ever know more of God than you presently do.

Did Peter walk on water? Would such an experience help to renew his mind about what is possible in Christ?

Unless you experience the miraculous walk that is by grace for yourself...you will go from pillar to post...exaggerating on one extreme or the other without finding the divine balance in Christ.

My feet are firmly planted on a solid foundation, not on diverse and heterodox teachings. I keep forgetting that you rely on experiences rather than the written Word. My question was valid, and you avoided addressing it.

Right after that it says that he who sins doesn't know Him. Are you saying that no one can know God? So then you have to be more honest and balanced in your reading. Stop with the human understanding. ALL have sinned. Yes. But few walk as Jesus walked. Don't advocate for a continuing in sin.

That's what you implying, that no sinner, once reborn- can have a relationship with God in Christ Jesus, sealed with the Holy Spirit and KNOW they have eternal life.

Correction: Again you miss the point...Paul continues with "as many as BE perfect" ...so Paul saw others ahead of him in the faith...walking in Christ's perfection. Paul also experienced this...but was not in it at that time, hence "Not that I was perfected at THIS TIME"

Incorrect @Episkopos
You are misunderstanding the passage. Paul does not suggest that others are ahead of him in faith or walking in a state of sinless perfection. In fact, Philippians 3:12 makes it clear that Paul acknowledges he has not yet attained perfection: "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on." The phrase "as many as are perfect" in Philippians 3:15 (NKJV) refers to maturity in Christ, not sinless perfection. Paul is speaking about spiritual growth and maturity, not a state of absolute perfection. He encourages believers to continually strive for greater spiritual maturity, acknowledging that full perfection will only come in the resurrection.

Scriptural clarification:
Philippians 3:12 (NKJV) clearly emphasizes Paul's acknowledgment that he has not yet reached perfection. The word "perfected" refers to the completion or fullness of Christ's work in believers, which Paul knows is still in progress.

Philippians 3:15 (NKJV): "Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you."

The word "perfect" here (translated as "mature" in many versions) refers to spiritual maturity, not sinless perfection. Paul is addressing those who are growing in Christ and striving toward deeper spiritual understanding, rather than implying that any have reached ultimate perfection in this life.
Paul’s words consistently reflect an ongoing process of sanctification, where believers are called to mature in faith but recognize that full perfection will not be attained until Christ's return (Philippians 3:21).

Sanctification-of the which you are in denial.

You are diminishing the divine nature because you don't know it.

Not at all-I stand with the written Word of God, while you rely on experiences contrary to what is written.

Matthew 4:4 (NKJV): "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
You "cut out sanctification" and deny those seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ, our High Priest, Prophet, and King, who is ever making intercession for us, along with the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 12:14 (NKJV): "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord."

Hebrews 7:25 (NKJV): "Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."

Romans 8:26-27 (NKJV): "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

Shalom.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You deny the power of grace.

No my friend you do
God has changed me. And he will complete what he started. You deny this hence you deny grace. Your trying to earn it

You think grace is God turning a blind eye to whoever is religious enough to claim His righteousness for himself.

No. I do not think this at all. However you think grace equals works. That’s like mixing oil and water. Now you want to give that to God and demand he save you with this
Mixture.

We will not be judged by our religious beliefs...but what we did with what we have been given.

You’re judged by God and his word.

If sin disqualifies you then you are at God's mercy...or His condemnation. If you claim righteousness (especially God's righteousness) for yourself in sin...then you will be rejected.

You keep saying if. As if maybe it does not. It does disqualify you. That’s why we all need grace and why the law could never save anyone

Again you just prove you do not understand grace

You need to fear the Lord to begin to have any wisdom at all.

I agree. So when will you start to hear the Lord?