Orthodoxy vs "The Way".

[Episkopos]

In this episode we want to investigate both the similarities and divergences between the Orthodox church and "the Way" as described in the New Testament. To accomplish this we will provide commentary based on video clips from both Paul Truebenbach and Josiah Trenham.

 

[Hepzibah]

Your half hour google on Orthodoxy, @Episkopos did not show you much.

In fact it is the only part of the church where the fields are white to harvest, as they at least give lip service to what you call the 'higher walk'. In fact your teaching follows the western watered down version of Theosis, so is off The Way.

There are plenty of believers in that church and a growing number of evangelicals who accept the doctrine, but one thing you got right is that there are few if any walking in it. The problem is that they will not listen to anyone outside of their church, and you are outside of it if you deny paedo-baptism. But you can still attend.

The apostles attended the synagogue in their time. Jesus preached in it. Nothing wrong with attending an Orthodox service and in fact many convert after doing so. At least one has access to ears that might listen.

Maybe you will listen and get your theology right.

 

[Episkopos]

Your half hour google on Orthodoxy, @Episkopos did not show you much.

In fact it is the only part of the church where the fields are white to harvest, as they at least give lip service to what you call the 'higher walk'. In fact your teaching follows the western watered down version of Theosis, so is off The Way.

There are plenty of believers in that church and a growing number of evangelicals who accept the doctrine, but one thing you got right is that there are few if any walking in it. The problem is that they will not listen to anyone outside of their church, and you are outside of it if you deny paedo-baptism. But you can still attend.

The apostles attended the synagogue in their time. Jesus preached in it. Nothing wrong with attending an Orthodox service and in fact many convert after doing so. At least one has access to ears that might listen.

Maybe you will listen and get your theology right.

The early church were followers of "The Way". What way? The way that is in Christ in the power of an eternal kind of life. It was inevitable that a dogmatic decoy also be established according to the will of men that usurps the way of God in Christ by catering to the desires of men.

My aim with this channel is to correct the deviations from the truth that concerns the life that Jesus came to bring to us. I remain committed to an apostolic spiritual restoration of the church as the pillar and ground of the truth - not just "a" truth, truisms, or a spiritualization of the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Do people really want to be told what to believe? Isn't an encounter with the living God of much more value and use in understanding the bigger picture and purpose of life?

I defend oneness with God AND oneness between disciples. Creeds and dogmas only serve as an excuse to not love another. Truth is alive. Those who have not yet experienced the depths of the truth can still be loved...without the distasteful look of a religious person who is only looking for an outward conformity. God sees the heart. But those who are spiritual in Christ also discern the heart. That's what brings the oneness. People will look for an outward unity without considering for one second that we are members one of another....not members of some brand of church.

Championing a physical outward church? Visual aids are like training wheels on a bike. When the training wheels take precedence over riding the bike we encounter a problem. Remaining on training wheels makes that a crutch...is the bike ever ridden without them? And this is assuming that with those training wheels people are actually learning to ride the bike.

Apostolicity is about being sent directly by God, sustained by God and led by the Spirit. There is no human representation that short-circuits that and that remains church as the Lord intends. Apostolicity is a mandate from heaven...and a life from heaven. No church can claim exclusivity on relationship to God.

 

[amadeus]

Do people really want to be told what to believe? Isn't an encounter with the living God of much more value and use in understanding the bigger picture and purpose of life?

I defend oneness with God AND oneness between disciples. Creeds and dogmas only serve as an excuse to not love another. Truth is alive. Those who have not yet experienced the depths of the truth can still be loved...without the distasteful look of a religious person who is only looking for an outward conformity. God sees the heart. But those who are spiritual in Christ also discern the heart. That's what brings the oneness. People will look for an outward unity without considering for one second that we are members one of another....not members of some brand of church.

Championing a physical outward church? Visual aids are like training wheels on a bike. When the training wheels take precedence over riding the bike we encounter a problem. Remaining on training wheels makes that a crutch...is the bike ever ridden without them? And this is assuming that with those training wheels people are actually learning to ride the bike.

Apostolicity is about being sent directly by God, sustained by God and led by the Spirit. There is no human representation that short-circuits that and that remains church as the Lord intends. Apostolicity is a mandate from heaven...and a life from heaven. No church can claim exclusivity on relationship to God.

Joh 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Johann]

In this episode we want to investigate both the similarities and divergences between the Orthodox church and "the Way" as described in the New Testament. To accomplish this we will provide commentary based on video clips from both Paul Truebenbach and Josiah Trenham.

First clip I've thoroughly enjoyed and may we have more outreach ministries putting God's word into practice.

Good one @Episkopos

J.

 

[Hepzibah]

No church can claim exclusivity on relationship to God.

The apostolic church can, despite all of the errors that quickly came in after Constantine. This is because they were so near to the source of the teaching of sanctification or The Way, and spoke the same language. You don't seem to be able to separate the outward from the inward. Oh and creeds by the way, were formed to try to keep out the heresies that threatened the life of the church. Even so, they were very slow in labelling a person a heretic.

The early teaching of The Way is not what the west later developed and which your teaching is based on. If you could just look past the physical, the external matters, and concentrate on the spiritual teaching, you would be corrected.

Unfortunately t is no good looking to recent day Orthodoxy for the fullness found in the beginning as they have absorbed western teaching on the subject. The nearest to the original teaching was in the 1990's by Fr John Romanides.

 

[Episkopos]

The apostolic church can, despite all of the errors that quickly came in after Constantine. This is because they were so near to the source of the teaching of sanctification or The Way, and spoke the same language. You don't seem to be able to separate the outward from the inward.

This is funny. Of course the apostles were apostolic. But by the time that a minority of bishops decided to listen to Constantine (only about 20% of all the bishops attended this "farce"), the more spiritual brothers probably didn't think it right to attend. But history is made by the victors.

Oh and creeds by the way, were formed to try to keep out the heresies that threatened the life of the church. Even so, they were very slow in labelling a person a heretic.

This is wrong headed. The world is not Christian. Let people believe what they want. And let the spiritual brothers come together in unity in the Spirit. Who cares what men set up and call "church". There must be heresies. The ploy of the devil is to fool immature believers into thinking they need creeds and human hierarchies. There is a leadership in the spiritual church...but you won't find PHD's in it.

The early teaching of The Way is not what the west later developed and which your teaching is based on. If you could just look past the physical, the external matters, and concentrate on the spiritual teaching, you would be corrected.

You are blind to the truth I speak. I am speaking pure unadulterated spiritual truth. But you are trying to be conformed to men.

Unfortunately t is no good looking to recent day Orthodoxy for the fullness found in the beginning as they have absorbed western teaching on the subject. The nearest to the original teaching was in the 1990's by Fr John Romanides.

I don't need to connect with dead people...no matter how holy they were. I only need Christ. He is still alive. And there are almost NO spiritual brothers at this time. But I continue to speak the truth in hopes that one or two might hear and be set free from their religiosity. :)

 

[Episkopos]

I was baptized by the Spirit into the church that God is building. What do I care if there is no building or earthly hierarchy I can point to. I was captured by the eternal love of Christ...and empowered to walk as He walked. If there are no others then I stand alone. That is God's will. But I certainly will not be fooled by all the decoys out there. The people in those decoys care more for their church than for Christ.

Don't preach church...preach Christ.

People think a full reliance on Christ is not right. But I bear His reproach for that...since I am following His calling...much to the dismay of religious people.

 

[Johann]

This is funny. Of course the apostles were apostolic. But by the time that a minority of bishops decided to listen to Constantine (only about 20% of all the bishops attended this "farce"), the more spiritual brothers probably didn't think it right to attend. But history is made by the victors.


This is wrong headed. The world is not Christian. Let people believe what they want. And let the spiritual brothers come together in unity in the Spirit. Who cares what men set up and call "church". There must be heresies. The ploy of the devil is to fool immature believers into thinking they need creeds and human hierarchies. There is a leadership in the spiritual church...but you won't find PHD's in it.


You are blind to the truth I speak. I am speaking pure unadulterated spiritual truth. But you are trying to be conformed to men.

I don't need to connect with dead people...no matter how holy they were. I only need Christ. He is still alive. And there are almost NO spiritual brothers at this time. But I continue to speak the truth in hopes that one or two might hear and be set free from their religiosity. :)

Sounds like you are more mature this time around.
Again, good work with the video.
J.

 

[Hepzibah]

This is funny. Of course the apostles were apostolic. But by the time that a minority of bishops decided to listen to Constantine (only about 20% of all the bishops attended this "farce"), the more spiritual brothers probably didn't think it right to attend. But history is made by the victors.


This is wrong headed. The world is not Christian. Let people believe what they want. And let the spiritual brothers come together in unity in the Spirit. Who cares what men set up and call "church". There must be heresies. The ploy of the devil is to fool immature believers into thinking they need creeds and human hierarchies. There is a leadership in the spiritual church...but you won't find PHD's in it.


You are blind to the truth I speak. I am speaking pure unadulterated spiritual truth. But you are trying to be conformed to men.

I don't need to connect with dead people...no matter how holy they were. I only need Christ. He is still alive. And there are almost NO spiritual brothers at this time. But I continue to speak the truth in hopes that one or two might hear and be set free from their religiosity. :)

There is so much error in this that I am unable to make a start in countering it.

I look to the early teachings as they correspond with scripture and the pattern of the spiritual journey the disciples made therefore confirming it. Your theology does not and I challenge you to do this..

You make two stages but scripture lays out three.

The calling, the breathing on and the baptism of the Spirit that puts a man into Christ, crucified with Him.

 

[Johann]

Don't preach church...preach Christ.

Correct-

1 Corinthians 1:23 – "But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness."

2 Corinthians 4:5 – "For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake."

Acts 5:42 – "And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."

Acts 8:5 – "Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them."

Acts 9:20 – "Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God."

Colossians 1:28 – "Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus."

Romans 15:19 – "In mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ."

Philippians 1:15 – "Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill."

Galatians 1:16 – "To reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles; I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood."

Ephesians 3:8 – "To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ."

These verses emphasize the centrality of Christ in preaching and teaching-and the practical side and not pontificating re "theosis"
Good work.
J.

 

[amadeus]

I was baptized by the Spirit into the church that God is building. What do I care if there is no building or earthly hierarchy I can point to. I was captured by the eternal love of Christ...and empowered to walk as He walked. If there are no others then I stand alone. That is God's will. But I certainly will not be fooled by all the decoys out there. The people in those decoys care more for their church than for Christ.

Don't preach church...preach Christ.

People thin a full reliance on Christ is not right. But I bear His reproach for that...since I am following His calling...much to the dismay of religious people.

Joh 6:66	From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67	Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

If the very closest of Jesus' followers had also gone away, would not He have then stood alone? Rather than compromising would it not be better to stand alone?

 

[Episkopos]

One has to understand the difference between righteousness and holiness. Righteousness is about what we do. Holiness about what God does. The church is FIRST what God does...followed by obedience in righteousness on our part. The problem with ecclesiastical thinking is that that these take for granted that God has already done His part....many centuries or millennia ago, and now that He is absent we must muddle through in obedience in the best way we can...in our best effort. But that practice is not supported in the bible. God is alive and active. Obedience is first to seek Him and inquire of Him. We are born of the Spirit not of the church. So then who are we being obedient to? Jesus condemned the religious people of His day for following traditions that were altered by men.

The New Covenant is based on a living relationship with God.....now at this present time...not a distant visitation some 2,000 years ago. The difference here is between dogmatic religious beliefs and a faith that actually connects us with God. We are not saved by traditions but by grace through faith...into a new and living way.

 

[amigo de christo]

Correct-

1 Corinthians 1:23 – "But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness."

2 Corinthians 4:5 – "For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake."

Acts 5:42 – "And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."

Acts 8:5 – "Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them."

Acts 9:20 – "Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God."

Colossians 1:28 – "Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus."

Romans 15:19 – "In mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ."

Philippians 1:15 – "Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill."

Galatians 1:16 – "To reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles; I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood."

Ephesians 3:8 – "To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ."

These verses emphasize the centrality of Christ in preaching and teaching-and the practical side and not pontificating re "theosis"
Good work.
J.

yet it sure dont seem that many even bother to remind folks about the DIRE NEED to FIRST BELEIVE ON HIM .
thus that means they do not preach CHRIST . at best they preach mans way of trying to crucify himself .
I still aint seen that man repent one bit about this . So he can preach away all day
but if one believes NOT ON JESUS the CHRIST it aint gonna profit that man one bit . so i say
its actually time to preach JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED and not rather , as some do , no need to beleive on JESUS , just
pick up your cross and crucify yourself . Now you know i didnt say that about you my friend .
But another gospel , any other gospel than the one orginally delivered by the true apostels
is no gospel we better once heed . let them be accursed . if even I preached another gospel , then you got to seperate
company from me . Its time we take the gospel serious again . The one thing , the one NAME that saves
IS the NAME folks better BELIEVE ON , JESUS THE CHRIST , the rest comes after that .

 

[Episkopos]

Why are so few walking by faith...in the "way" that is in Christ? Unless one walks by grace through faith one cannot understand walking in BOTH the fear of God AND the comfort of the Spirit. Both at the same time. Entering the righteousness of God by abiding in Christ doesn't eliminate human righteousness...it empowers it. Faith upholds the law. The Spirit fulfills righteousness. Only in Christ are both mercy AND truth upheld. People will gravitate to one or the other...but not both. One needs to be in the Spirit to see the kingdom realm of God. But seeing in the Spirit doesn't mean we bump into walls or temporal objects. In Christ our focus is afar in the Spirit, but we can still see things in this world...only out of focus.

In Christ our eyes are drawn to what (the eternal realm of the Spirit) or who (the Lord) we love. If we love this world then the love of Christ is not in us. If we love Christ MORE than this world then our eyes will remain fixed on Him. Then, we will do and act just like Jesus. That is what leadership in the church is about. That is what it means to be a saint in this world.

 

[Behold]

Do people really want to be told what to believe? Isn't an encounter with the living God of much more value and use in understanding the bigger picture and purpose of life?

A person who has had a literal life changing, spiritual birth, will never be found on a Public Christian Forum... denying that The Cross is about Forgiveness.

Thats a fact.

 

[Episkopos]

A person who has had a literal life changing, spiritual birth, will never be found on a Public Christian Forum... denying that The Cross is about Forgiveness.

Thats a fact.

A constant sinner is only looking for forgiveness and how to exploit Jesus for himself.

A true disciple seeks the Lord for holiness and the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead...to walk in it.

That's the truth.

 

[Johann]

A constant sinner is only looking for forgiveness and how to exploit Jesus for himself.

Right here is where I would disagree-

Your assertion that a "constant sinner is only looking for forgiveness and how to exploit Jesus for himself" reflects a misunderstanding of sin, repentance, and the nature of grace in the biblical context.

Misunderstanding of Grace and Forgiveness
Your statement implies that seeking forgiveness repeatedly is a selfish act or an attempt to exploit Jesus. However, the Bible teaches that God's grace is abundant and that forgiveness is not something one can exhaust through repeated requests. In Matthew 18:21-22, Peter asks Jesus how many times he should forgive someone who sins against him, suggesting seven times. Jesus responds, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven,” emphasizing that forgiveness is limitless, just as God’s grace is (also seen in 1 John 1:9). God does not see a genuine sinner seeking forgiveness as exploitative but rather as part of their journey of repentance and growth in sanctification.

Human Nature and the Need for Ongoing Repentance
Human beings are imperfect and prone to sin, even after salvation (Romans 7:15-25). The Apostle Paul talks about his own struggles with sin and how, despite his best efforts, he sometimes falls short. A Christian, though justified by faith, will still battle with sin. The continual coming to Jesus for forgiveness is not about exploitation but about recognizing one's need for His redemptive work daily. 1 John 2:1 also addresses this: "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

True Repentance vs. Exploitation
While some may misuse grace as an excuse for continuing in sin, the Bible differentiates between true repentance and false repentance. In Romans 6:1-2, Paul addresses the notion of abusing grace: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!" True repentance involves a genuine change of heart and mind, a turning away from sin and towards God (Luke 13:3). Exploiting forgiveness without repentance would be insincere, but to claim that anyone who seeks forgiveness often is automatically doing this is not biblically accurate.

Jesus’ Response to the Broken and Needy
Jesus demonstrates a heart of compassion towards sinners who come to Him seeking forgiveness. In Matthew 9:12-13, Jesus says, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." Jesus’ entire mission involved bringing forgiveness to those who continually fall short of the glory of God, offering hope for those struggling with habitual sin.

Biblical Correction
Rather than viewing a constant sinner seeking forgiveness as an exploitation of Christ, it’s essential to understand that God's grace is abundant, and He desires for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). The biblical response should not be to judge the sinner’s motives but to encourage genuine repentance and trust in God’s transformative power through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2).

God’s forgiveness is always available, but it is meant to lead to sanctification and growth in holiness.

Now I hope you can accept the correction as a brother.
Unless, of course, you hold to theosis.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Right here is where I would disagree-

Your assertion that a "constant sinner is only looking for forgiveness and how to exploit Jesus for himself" reflects a misunderstanding of sin, repentance, and the nature of grace in the biblical context.

Misunderstanding of Grace and Forgiveness
Your statement implies that seeking forgiveness repeatedly is a selfish act or an attempt to exploit Jesus. However, the Bible teaches that God's grace is abundant and that forgiveness is not something one can exhaust through repeated requests. In Matthew 18:21-22, Peter asks Jesus how many times he should forgive someone who sins against him, suggesting seven times. Jesus responds, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven,” emphasizing that forgiveness is limitless, just as God’s grace is (also seen in 1 John 1:9). God does not see a genuine sinner seeking forgiveness as exploitative but rather as part of their journey of repentance and growth in sanctification.

Human Nature and the Need for Ongoing Repentance
Human beings are imperfect and prone to sin, even after salvation (Romans 7:15-25). The Apostle Paul talks about his own struggles with sin and how, despite his best efforts, he sometimes falls short. A Christian, though justified by faith, will still battle with sin. The continual coming to Jesus for forgiveness is not about exploitation but about recognizing one's need for His redemptive work daily. 1 John 2:1 also addresses this: "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

True Repentance vs. Exploitation
While some may misuse grace as an excuse for continuing in sin, the Bible differentiates between true repentance and false repentance. In Romans 6:1-2, Paul addresses the notion of abusing grace: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!" True repentance involves a genuine change of heart and mind, a turning away from sin and towards God (Luke 13:3). Exploiting forgiveness without repentance would be insincere, but to claim that anyone who seeks forgiveness often is automatically doing this is not biblically accurate.

Jesus’ Response to the Broken and Needy
Jesus demonstrates a heart of compassion towards sinners who come to Him seeking forgiveness. In Matthew 9:12-13, Jesus says, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." Jesus’ entire mission involved bringing forgiveness to those who continually fall short of the glory of God, offering hope for those struggling with habitual sin.

Biblical Correction
Rather than viewing a constant sinner seeking forgiveness as an exploitation of Christ, it’s essential to understand that God's grace is abundant, and He desires for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). The biblical response should not be to judge the sinner’s motives but to encourage genuine repentance and trust in God’s transformative power through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2).

God’s forgiveness is always available, but it is meant to lead to sanctification and growth in holiness.

Now I hope you can accept the correction as a brother.
Unless, of course, you hold to theosis.
J.

Sadly, The op does not understand that a person who is born of God will not be a constant, habitual sinner.

The apostle john destroys this thinking totally. But he refuses to look to the word.