Once Saved, Always Saved?
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GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Just as God forgets sin, He forgets righteousness (Ezekiel 18:24; Jeremiah 31:34).
God's elect, Yes.
Nowhere in God's Word will any suggestion whatsoever be found that God is our elect. Certainly, we do make a choice. But our being one of God's elect does not depend on our choosing (willing) or working (running), but rather on God's having mercy and compassion. Paul is crystal clear on that in Romans 9:14-18 (to be specific).
And... "the gifts..." ~ specifically mercy, compassion, and even faith ~ "...and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29).
There really is no argument to be had. But, so it goes.
Absolutely.
Grace and peace.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken said: "God Offers…and Yes manKIND has option, FREEWILL CHOICE….to TAKE Gods Offering…or REJECT Gods Offering."
Yes, that's true; the general offer of salvation is given to all.
But God only calls some, those He chose before the foundation of the world and predestined for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will (Ephesians 1:4-5). These are His elect (Romans 9). And these God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace we have been saved (Ephesians 2:4-5).
No one is saying we don't have a choice or even don't freely make one. Of course we do. But for those of us who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, our having made this choice rightly is because He has called us by His Spirit and we have been born again. Otherwise, we would have remained dead in our sin and would have continued in our rejection. As Paul says in Romans 9:14-18, it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy, and God has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. If you say it depends on our choice, then not only are you speaking contrary to this passage, but also Romans 11:5-6, that at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace... (b)ut if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Glory to God indeed.
Grace and peace to you.
Yes, that's true; the general offer of salvation is given to all.
But God only calls some, those He chose before the foundation of the world and predestined for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will (Ephesians 1:4-5). These are His elect (Romans 9). And these God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace we have been saved (Ephesians 2:4-5).
No one is saying we don't have a choice or even don't freely make one. Of course we do. But for those of us who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, our having made this choice rightly is because He has called us by His Spirit and we have been born again. Otherwise, we would have remained dead in our sin and would have continued in our rejection. As Paul says in Romans 9:14-18, it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy, and God has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. If you say it depends on our choice, then not only are you speaking contrary to this passage, but also Romans 11:5-6, that at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace... (b)ut if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Glory to God indeed.
Grace and peace to you.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Yup, we were His sheep BEFORE we ever heard the name "Jesus", and He came and collected us--we didn't choose Christ.
Taken
Well-Known Member
God Offers…Herbs, fruits, berries, meat, the earth and water…All full of minerals, nutrients to sustain bodily life, immunities, general well being for the body…
God Offers….Secular knowledge, Spiritual Knowledge and the Understanding thereof, of each.
God Offers…(according to His Order, His Way)…eternal Life and the Consequence of being WITH the Lord God Almighty FOREVER…
AND the Option to be WITHOUT the Lord God Almighty and Consequence to become MADE WITHOUT the Lord God Almighty and VOID of any, bodily, soul, spirit LLIFE FOREVER.
Emphasizing … God is ALL KNOWING…God CALLS many…YET God “CHOSE” (past tense)….ALL of maKIND HE ALREADY KNEW….would Freely exercise their OWN WILL and Choose Him.
Gods ELECT…began as the Hebrews, the TRIBES of ISRAEL…”<—-> THEY” were appointed to be the Spiritual Teachers of all of ManKIND….OOPS….a fail…
JESUS was SENT TO THE JEWS (primarily what all the Tribes of Israel are identifying AS), to steer the Tribes of Israel back ON TRACK, being the Spiritual Teachers to ManKIND…..OOPS….a fail…
SOME…Jews maintaining their teaching in Synagogue's…without JESUS being their Messiah.
SOME….Gentiles Adopting the Jews God, AS their God…ALONG WITH JESUS being Gods Sent Jewish Messiah, Intercessor and Savior.
*** Continuing DIVIDE:
Jews and Gentiles divided
Jews and Jews divided
Gentiles and Gentiles divided
Individuals WITH God…but not Jesus.
Individuals WITH God & Jesus, but not Committed.
* Individuals WITH God & Jesus AND Committed “WITH-IN” Christ.(ARE SAVED)…
AND…have become MADE Gods “elect”…fruition, revealed, fulfilled.
* All others….either HOPE to become Saved…
OR
* HAVE ZERO Concern or Care what shall become of their body and living soul AFTER their body dies.
Gods ELECT…..WAS His People ISRAEL…
Gods OFFERING….of SALVATION TO ALL MEN……(and Before their bodily death, VIA a spiritual pledge, ie crucified with Christ Jesus)….
Was Offered by, through, of JESUS…Willingly submitting to Death of his BODY, and Shedding of his BLOOD…
An Offering TO ALL of manKIND….and YES absolutely, NOT a FORCED OFFERING, rather REQUIRES each individual man to testify and confess that IS his desire to TAKE, HAVE, POSSESS that Offering.
Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Choose to Take His Offering…Assures His Sanctification, Once and Forever.
Thank you, and same to you as well.
Glory to God,
Taken
Well... we didn't choose Him before He chose us. :) Right? Surely, Jesus said to His disciples in John 15:16, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you...", and that's true of all of us, too. He's saying the initial choosing was His, not ours.
The issue is not the will, or whether it is free or not, it is the heart. Our heart has to be changed... from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and a new spirit put into us by God... for us to then, as driven by our heart, which once was dead in sin but now is alive to God, to then compel us to choose God. The heart is what drives the will.
God's elect has always been and will always be His people Israel... which consists of people of all ethnicities, all those in Christ. And they are true Jews of God. As Paul says in Romans 2:28-29, "...no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical... a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."
Grace and peace to you.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
LOL Yeah, we didn't choose Him, He chose us, but, yes, we believed!
You know how, in Ezekiel, it says God will bring the people back to the land in their uncleanness, and there, in the land, He will sprinkle them with water? I wonder if this means something for Christians--ie, He brings us into Christ in our uncleanness, and there, in Christ, He sprinkles us clean. I would have thought the cleaning would have happened first (because how could Christ welcome unclean people?), then bring us, cleaned, into Him, but it does say, "and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus". That would give me assurance that even in my imperfection He loves and accepts me.
Hmmm... well salvation has always happened the same way...
The righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, God declares us clean; this is our justification by God ~ and we are no longer in the first Adam (Adam) but in the second Adam (Christ Jesus). We are still sinners, and still sin, and in that sense are still unclean. But since we have been born again and placed in Christ, we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ... and, one great day, at His return... will be just like Him; we will see Him as He is, and we will then be, truly and forever, without sin.
This "sprinkling" is our baptism by water and the Spirit, our inward baptism by the Spirit. This is what God is saying (through Ezekiel) when He says, "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you."
Grace and peace to you!
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Once Saved, Always Saved?
Definitive…YES!
Glory to God,
Taken
Definitive…YES!
Glory to God,
Taken
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
OSAS is false doctrine and an excuse by it's adherents to continue living in sin.
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Once Saved Always Saved?
Not so.
Go read the Holy Bible and verify.
There is a sense in which we, having been born again of the Holy Spirit in Christ, have been saved. This is a one-time event.
At the same time, there is a sense (a different sense, of course) in which we are being saved ~ God's good work is in the process of coming to completion (Philippians 1:6) ~ and will not fully happen until Christ returns. Until that time, though, we are growing in our obedience and good works, which are the result of our having been born again and also produced in us by the Holy Spirit because of God's work in us (Philippians 2:13). And this obedience and these good works are essential to our salvation at the end of the age ~ required, as it were; in this way we serve the Lord.
So... you're both right, if both understood in the correct sense. There is no contradiction; this is the simultanious "now and not yet" of the Gospel, of our salvation. In short, as Christians, we have been given eternal life in one sense (the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable, as Paul says in Romans 11), but in another sense we have yet to fully obtain it. But again, even in the latter sense, we will, without fail, because of the Spirit's work in us that as of now is ongoing. In either sense, though, if we are truly born again of the Spirit, our eternal destiny with Christ is absolutely secured.
Grace and peace to all.
Taken
Well-Known Member
@Michiah-Imla
@Dan Clarkston
@PinSeeker
1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Pet 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
A bodily death occurs,
before soul restoration (Pss 23:3) ie Saving;
and spirit quickening (born again).
Scripture….anyone??
Of a soul being saved and spirit born again and then the soul returned to unsaved and the spirit being unborn ??
Glory to God,
Taken
@Dan Clarkston
@PinSeeker
1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Pet 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
A bodily death occurs,
before soul restoration (Pss 23:3) ie Saving;
and spirit quickening (born again).
Scripture….anyone??
Of a soul being saved and spirit born again and then the soul returned to unsaved and the spirit being unborn ??
Glory to God,
Taken
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Of course he chose us, that’s why only HE can give birth to our spirit, His Spirit is in our spirit, hence Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Man can’t birth themselves into the Spirit of God..God does the choosing.
Our heart/ spirit, is birthed.thats when it comes Alive in Christ, when he births us permanently in the Spirit, which as his word says, we are Born Of The Spirit.
As Gentiles we have been grafted into the true vine.,..that can only happen if God by his mercy / grace, births us in the Spirit, permanently.,..man has no say in the matter, as it’s God’s will, that we become Born Again.
Your preaching to the choir, here, Rita. You could have saved yourself some time (and wear and tear on your fingers) by just saying, "Yes, PinSeeker, I'm totally with ya!" :) Thank you, though. :)
Grace and peace to you.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I post my friend, what God places on my heart to post.
Take it up with him,.hehe.,only joking , Brother,x
We don't disagree, Taken. If you still think we do, I encourage you to reread what I posted before. As I said, "you're both right, if both understood in the correct sense. There is no contradiction; this is the simultaneous "now and not yet" of the Gospel, of our salvation. In short, as Christians, we have been given eternal life in one sense (the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable, as Paul says in Romans 11), but in another sense we have yet to fully obtain it. But again, even in the latter sense, we will, without fail, because of the Spirit's work in us that as of now is ongoing. In either sense, though, if we are truly born again of the Spirit, our eternal destiny with Christ is absolutely secured."
Grace and peace to you.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We’re in the will of God, His will , will 100%..be done, we should also know in our spirit, that he’s at work in our heart/ spirit...the more self dies, the more of the Spirit is seen in and through us..it’s mind blowing, knowing he’s at work in our heart, that’s the power of his almighty Spirit!
Born of the Spirit, we are his spirit children, that’s the biggest Honour and Privilege one can ever receive on this earth.
We will be conformed into the image of Jesus, again by the power of the Spirit, who indwells our spirit, permanently.
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