Once Saved, Always Saved?

[BloodBought 1953]

. But it was by Israel’s unbelief and sin that they did not enter the Promise Land.



True....and In Hebrews 3 and 4, God makes it clear that if you do not REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus NOTHING for your Salvation—- which means putting your Faith in “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” to obtain Eternal Life —- YOU will be comparable to those that wasted away in the desert and died .....You are just as much guilty of “ Disobedience and Unbelief” as they were, in God’s view.....

They were SAVED because they had at least mustered up the Faith in the beginning to put their Trust in the Shed Blood Of an Innocent One ( a Lamb) to protect them from the Angel Of Death ( Ring a Bell?) .....One can be Saved and STILL live a beggarly, rotten life and “ die in the desert” if they lack the Courage to ignore what they “ See” and instead, ACT on a Promise if God—- in SPITE of what things might look like .....Faith is 99% Courage .....” Courage” based on a Promise Of God.....

Do you “ Really” want to Please God? Show your courage in what seems like an impossible situation because you will choose and ACT on a Promise of God Over what circumstances might say....Show the Courage Of a David when he went up against Goliath .....If God did not pull through , David was a dead man....Show the Courage Of Jesus , Who “ Endured the Pain and the Shame “ Of The Cross not only because of His Love for Mankind, but to obtain the Promise Of God That ” His Name would be Above all others” and to Him , “ Every knee would bow”......

If you purport to be a man with Faith, there is a very good chance that God is going to Test “your” Faith , just like He did with the Jews in the Sinai Desert......God is not as Preoccupied with your pitiful attempts at “ Perfection” as you may think.....If you are a Believer, He’s got “that” taken care of by the Shed Blood and by His Grace.....You are going to be rewarded in Eternity for your Faith....You can count on the fact that God will eventually Test it—— we are no different than the Jews that God put to the test.....Practicing Faith is not always easy.....at least it is possible though....Trying to obtain Perfection in a Body Of Flesh is a “Fools Game”.......Jesus said that when He returns He will be “ Looking for FAITH in the Land”......If we “ LIVE” the way that Paul “ said” to live—-“ From Faith To Faith” —— God will put His Spirit in you and you will “Find Yourself” Living a Life That pleases you Heavenly Father—- That Life May be far more substantial than snuffing out a cigarette or doing other things that will win the approval of the hypocritical , self - appointed Fruit Inspectors at the local Sunday Country Clubs ....

 

[Taken]

OSAS is saying that you don’t lose salvation even if you sin.

No. OSAS, says no such thing.
That is what YOUR are saying.

 

[Taken]

Losers would be those who don’t obey God. Jesus obeyed God and His death on the cross was not in anyway losing.

And...A man who obeys God and gives his body to death on the cross WITH Jesus IS:
according to God......not losing
according to Jesus....not losing
according to OSAS....not losing
according to me........not losing
according to you....losing

Not difficult to conclude who is in agreement.

 

[Taken]

So you believe that in order for OSAS to be true, they must lay down their life?
That doesn’t sound like OSAS but it sounds like a condition.

Of course RECEIVING Salvation IS A CONDITION.

* Nothing new...God has an ORDER and WAY.

Salvation IS Gods FREE GIFT OFFERING, according to His Order and Way.

The ORDER is;
Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Man, Woman, Child.

The WAY is; God Offers Gifts:
OF God, THROUGH His Son, BY His Holy Spirit.

The WAY is: Man, Woman, Child;
Can TAKE His Gift, thus HAVE His Gift.
Can REFUSE His Gift, thus NOT HAVE His Gift.

The Condition.....is Taking the Offered Gift!

Not difficult to understand.

 

[JohnPaul]

. But it was by Israel’s unbelief and sin that they did not enter the Promise Land.



True....and In Hebrews 3 and 4, God makes it clear that if you do not REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus NOTHING for your Salvation—- which means putting your Faith in “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” to obtain Eternal Life —- YOU will be comparable to those that wasted away in the desert and died .....You are just as much guilty of “ Disobedience and Unbelief” as they were, in God’s view.....

They were SAVED because they had at least mustered up the Faith in the beginning to put their Trust in the Shed Blood Of an Innocent One ( a Lamb) to protect them from the Angel Of Death ( Ring a Bell?) .....One can be Saved and STILL live a beggarly, rotten life and “ die in the desert” if they lack the Courage to ignore what they “ See” and instead, ACT on a Promise if God—- in SPITE of what things might look like .....Faith is 99% Courage .....” Courage” based on a Promise Of God.....

Do you “ Really” want to Please God? Show your courage in what seems like an impossible situation because you will choose and ACT on a Promise of God Over what circumstances might say....Show the Courage Of a David when he went up against Goliath .....If God did not pull through , David was a dead man....Show the Courage Of Jesus , Who “ Endured the Pain and the Shame “ Of The Cross not only because of His Love for Mankind, but to obtain the Promise Of God That ” His Name would be Above all others” and to Him , “ Every knee would bow”......

If you purport to be a man with Faith, there is a very good chance that God is going to Test “your” Faith , just like He did with the Jews in the Sinai Desert......God is not as Preoccupied with your pitiful attempts at “ Perfection” as you may think.....If you are a Believer, He’s got “that” taken care of by the Shed Blood and by His Grace.....You are going to be rewarded in Eternity for your Faith....You can count on the fact that God will eventually Test it—— we are no different than the Jews that God put to the test.....Practicing Faith is not always easy.....at least it is possible though....Trying to obtain Perfection in a Body Of Flesh is a “Fools Game”.......Jesus said that when He returns He will be “ Looking for FAITH in the Land”......If we “ LIVE” the way that Paul “ said” to live—-“ From Faith To Faith” —— God will put His Spirit in you and you will “Find Yourself” Living a Life That pleases you Heavenly Father—- That Life May be far more substantial than snuffing out a cigarette or doing other things that will win the approval of the hypocritical , self - appointed Fruit Inspectors at the local Sunday Country Clubs ....

Perfectly said.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Most of that came with scriptures
I just threw in the Webster's for another perspective.
You learn from the Bible

I see that there are different ways in which we are sanctified (in Christ, through the word, by abstaining from fornication, by God, as so on).

But “progressive sanctification” is a foreign doctrine and not taught in the Bible. It’s just men doing busy-work in scriptures that’s all.

But thanks for sharing that @Grailhunter

 

[mailmandan]

The misunderstanding Dathemailman, is how saving faith is being defined.
You wrongly define Biblical faith as seperate from works.

You wrongly define Biblical faith "as" works. Been there, done that. The Greek words for faith and believe are "pistis" and "pisteuo" and are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This faith/belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the faith/belief. Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I also was confused about this and basically defined faith "as" works so I understand your confusion.

The Bible defines faith as an action. Never mental assent. Never without obedience.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is not defined as obedience/works. The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation*; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).*

The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Jesus Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

I was recently in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, he contradicted himself and said this below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking in the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and "includes" these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. This Roman Catholic went on to basically say that we are saved through faith "infused" with works. I was also in a discussion with someone who attends the church of Christ and he claimed we are saved through faith "conjoined" with works. He also went on to say this below:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."

That's the classic saved by "these" works and just not "those" works argument that I typically hear from Catholics and Campbellites and if Christ needs our works in order to help save us, then this renders Him an IN-sufficient Savior.

Paul is teaching a working faith in Romans 5:1,
-Therefore having been justified by faith......

You continue to try and "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works, but the shoe does not fit. Paul simply said justified by faith in Romans 5:1 and not faith and works. Paul also went on to say in Romans 5:2 that we have access by faith into grace.. and not faith and works.

Romans 5:1 cannot be teaching faith without works justifies.

Romans 5:1 certainly can and does teach that faith justifies (accounts us as righteous) apart from works, just as we read in Romans 4:2-6. When Paul uses the term "justified" he is using it in the sense of being "accounted as righteous."

James teaches faith must have works in order to be justified.

James is using the term "justified" in the sense of being "shown to be righteous." One shows the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Paul and James both taught an obedient faith ie a working faith is what justifies man.

Being accounted as righteous by faith precedes being shown to be righteous by works. See Genesis 15:6 in which Abraham believed God and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him as righteousness (Also see Romans 4:2-3) and pay close attention to the fact that it was many years later in Genesis 22 in which Abraham offered up Isaac on the altar and was said to be "justified by works." (See James 2:21) Your cart before the horse theology culminates in salvation by works, in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

They both use Abraham's faith as the Biblical faith that God accepts.
We must have the same kind of faith Abraham has in order for God to justify us.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness. That kind of faith?

James also teaches how we are justified.
It is not by faith without works.
It is a faith with works,
James 2:24,
-You see then that a man is justified by works, and not faith alone.

You error by teaching we are accounted as righteous by both faith and works, which means that you teach we are saved by both faith and works. When James says faith "alone" he is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith (says/claims to have faith which remains 'alone' - barren of works) and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

Paul and James both teach Abraham was justified the same way.
By a faith that obeys God.

Yet faith (apart from works) is what accounts us as righteous (Romans 4:2-6) and by works we are shown to be righteous. (James 2:14-24) You place the cart before the horse.

No Sir, I have not failed to understand the message James is teaching.

You certainly have failed to understand and it's not a big mystery why. Been there, done that.

You are partly right,
James is teaching evidence of true faith will obey Gods commandments.

You are on the right track when you say "evidence."

But you are mistaken when you teach James was not teaching on initial salvation.
James is teaching both.

Initial salvation? So Christ only initially saves us, then we do the rest? You continue to teach that we are saved by both faith and works. So is it 50% faith and 50% works that saves us? Is Christ an ALL-sufficient Savior or an IN-sufficient Savior? We must place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) 100% in Christ for salvation and 0% in works in order to be saved.

Here James teaches that faith alone does not save us, ie initial salvation.
James 2:14,
-what does it profit my brethren , if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
-can faith alone save him?

Once again, in James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. What part of empty profession of faith/says/claims to have faith do you not understand? Hence the 'alone' - barren of works. James is talking about a bare profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation.

James is discussing the subject of initial salvation in verse 14. "Can faith without works save us"?

James is discussing an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains 'alone' - barren of works. That kind of faith cannot save because it's a bare profession of faith and not authentic faith, which demonstrates that it's a living faith by producing works. Simple! Too simple!

Now listen to James teach that true saving faith can be shown by evidence. That evidence is our obedient works,
James 2:18,
-but someone will say, You have faith alone and I have works, Show me your faith without any works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

I have been saying all along that we show our faith by our works and works are the evidence of authentic faith, yet we are still saved through faith and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

James' teaching is true saving faith is never alone.

True saving faith does not remain alone - 'barren of works' yet we are still saved through faith and not by works.

The faith that Paul and James teaches justified Abraham is a faith that works, obeys God.

Yet Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by faith, not works in Genesis 15:6 (also see Romans 4:2-3) many years before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 and was said to be justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:21) His obedient work followed having been accounted as righteous by faith.

Paul never taught faith without works justifies man.

Yes he did. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1 etc..). God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Paul taught there is only one kind of faith that is profitable for the person who obtains it.
Paul believes that the only faith that does any good is a faith that works by love,

Galatians 5:6,
-For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision, profits anything, but faith working through love.

And why does faith work by love? See (Romans 5:5; 1 John 4:7, 19)

Paul knows the only faith that does man any good must have works.

Faith is the root and good works are the fruit.

James and Paul teach the same faith that saves us.

You just don't get it. sigh..

Abraham was not justified without obedient works to God.

Read Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:2-3 again.

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

Genesis 15:6,
-And he believed the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
Abraham was not accounted righteous by a faith with no works.

Abraham believed God and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness. How many years later AFTER was it in Genesis 22 that Abraham offered up Isaac on the altar and was said to justified (shown to be righteous) by works? (James 2:21) It was several years later.

Listen to how Abraham's faith was a working faith.
This is why God accounted Abraham's faith to him as righteousness.

You just cannot accept that man is saved through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Hebrews 11:8,
-by faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance.
-And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

Does God say in Genesis 12 that Abraham was "justified" (accounted as righteous) simply by going out of his country, from his family and his father's house to see a land that God will show him? No. That's only part of the story. It was not until Genesis 15:5, AFTER God brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” *VERSE 6 - And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. *Just as we see in Romans 4:3 - “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Now would God have approved of Abraham's faith if he had only believed but did not obey Gods commandments?
No,
It was faith that caused Abraham to do Gods will.
That faith and works is why God blessed Abraham.

If Abraham refused to obey God in unbelief by leaving his country in the first place, then he would not have believed God in Genesis 15:6 either and would have demonstrated a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case. Abraham was still justified (accounted as righteous) by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) no matter how much you slice and dice it.

Abraham never would have received any blessing from God if he only had faith alone.

You mean and empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains 'alone' - barren of works? (James 2:14) *Which is not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ 'alone' for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Conclusion Romans 5:1 is teaching faith that obeys God, justifies and saves.
Just as James is teaching in James 2:14-26.

You are still putting the cart before the horse and continue to teach salvation by works. We are saved by faith in Christ at it's origin (Ephesians 2:5-9) and not by works prior to producing multiple acts of obedience/good works. (Ephesians 2:10) *James is simply teaching that authentic faith is evidenced by works and not that we are saved by works. When will you believe?

 

[mailmandan]

Faith onlyism teaches you recieve salvation with zero works. That is the false doctrine of sola fide.

No one ever was justified by faith and no obedience to God. No works of righteousness.

Faith only per James = empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains 'alone' - barren of works. (James 2:14) Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ 'alone' for salvation and not in works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) That is the true doctrine of sola fide. We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith in Christ "apart from works" (Romans 4:5-6). Also, in Titus 3:5 we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

I see that there are different ways in which we are sanctified (in Christ, through the word, by abstaining from fornication, by God, as so on).

But “progressive sanctification” is a foreign doctrine and not taught in the Bible. It’s just men doing busy-work in scriptures that’s all.

But thanks for sharing that @Grailhunter

Like I said I do not have a vested interest. Johnny Appleseed of truth. I plant the seeds of truth and then it is up to you and God.
I gave you the scriptures...thank God. Tell Him you do not believe or the scriptures are foreign.
Do you believe that when you come out of that water at Baptism you are a fully mature and experienced Christian?
As we go....as we walk with Christ... we workout our salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12
He says Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21 As we learn to apply Christianity to our lives and we do our best to be good and do good we develop a better understanding of God and develop a closer relationship. If we pattern our lives after Christ we avoid sin and help those we can. This pleases God and we are further sanctified. We are children in the family of God....But what kind of relationship does a son have with his Father that is obedient and does the will of the Father?

Pleasing God....is obedience and good character and makes for a closer relationship with God…

1st John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

Hebrews 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

2nd Corinthians 5:9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.

John 8:29 And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.

1st Thessalonians 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more.

2nd Thessalonians 2:4 But just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts.

Ephesian 5:8-10 For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

Hebrews 13:15-16 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Colossians 1:10 So as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.

1st Timothy 5:3-5 Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God. She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,

 

[Taken]

OSAS teaches that you don’t lose salvation by your sin.

No it does not!

Why are you dictating the what something means...
That you neither know, understand or believe?

Receiving Salvation, is not about....Whoopie....got the “agreement of Salvation”, now I can continue to Stand against God, sneak off and be with any other god.

That is as ridiculous as saying....Got wedded with my wife, “that Joining gave me License” to continue being with any other woman!

ONCE Saved........IS one person, one time, agreeing to Stand ONLY WITH the Lord God Almighty For-EVER.

ONCE Saved.........IS the Lord God Almighty, one time, agreeing to Stand WITH that one man For-EVER.

Don’t you get it? The AGREEMENT between a man and the Lord God Almighty.......IS OF, BY, THROUGH.......SALVATION.

SALVATION IS the contract....the agreement...between one man & God.

It OCCURS “ONCE”. Not multiply times, like men, agree to marry, agree to borrow and repay, and then break their word, run off to other women, loss their asses for failure to repay....

Scripture WARNS men....
KNOW what a contract WITH God IS...
It’s a ONE TIME Agreement...
BE SURE BEFORE you agree to the “contract” WITH God...

It’s SURELY IS NOT, an AGREEMENT, (license <—- LOL) to Run off to other gods!

^ Utterly ridiculous and false!

 

[mailmandan]

I believe there are two aspects of salvation taught in the Bible.

Aspect of Salvation #1.
We are initially saved by God’s grace without works through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
(This is when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and we throw ourselves down upon His mercy and forgiveness and we believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Aspect of Salvation #2.
We enter the Sanctification Process of the Hoy Spirit. For 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Sanctification of the Spirit involves putting away sin, doing good works, keeping oneself unspotted from this world, etcetera. In other words, one is living holy by the power of God working in them.​

But yes. Sanctification is a part of the faith just as being saved by God’s grace is a part of the faith. You whole New Testament is a part of the faith. So if God tells you to live holy in His Word, that’s a part of the faith...

In other words (according to you) we are merely initially saved by God's grace without works through faith but ultimately saved by putting away sin, doing good works, keeping oneself unspotted from this world, living holy etc.. So how much sin must you put away? How many good works must you do? How unspotted from this world must you keep yourself? Just how holy must you live? This is "type 2 works salvation." You seem to believe that Jesus merely initially saves you by grace through faith but after that, YOU DO THE REST in order to help keep yourself saved.

That must really make you feel proud of yourself. ;)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Tell Him you do not believe or the scriptures are foreign.
Do you believe that when yo

We are talking about “progressive sanctification”, not scriptures.

I believe the scriptures.

In this regard, You speak as to the teachings of men.

I rather do this:

“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth” (1 Peter 4:11)

I will speak of sanctification as the scriptures speak of it.

I will not say “progressive sanctification” when the phrase doesn’t exist in scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

Your missing one of the major points of the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25, friend. The point was to show that one needs to be fruitful (have works) to be saved (Which is obviously only after one is intiially saved by God’s grace without works). You may call my plain reading of this parable as “works salvation” and yet that is what this parable is teaching...

Salvation by works is NOT what the parable is teaching as I already throughly explained in post #1197, but apparently, the truth just went right over your head.. sigh.. It's not that we must have works in order to become saved but that we WILL have works IF we truly are saved. Works-salvationists typically have this backwards.

It's painfully obvious to me that you just don't have ears to hear and I am just wasting my time beating a dead horse. Not trying to sound harsh, but that's just how I feel. ;) You seem to be on a mission (through your long winded posts full of scripture twisting, wrongly dividing the word of truth, confusing justification with ongoing sanctification and faith with works etc..) in order to draw disciples after yourself and get them to buy into your "type 2 works salvation" (holier than thou) gospel. Well I'm not buying it but good luck with your mission.

 

[mailmandan]

Right, and the Saturday Sabbath is no longer a binding command today. This is obvious to anyone who reads Colossians 2:14-17. We are not to let others judge us in regards to whether or not we keep the Sabbaths or holy days, or dietary laws, etcetera. There are no commands given to us by Jesus and His followers to keep the Sabbath. There are no breaking of the Sabbath listed as a sin among the other lists of sins mentioned by the followers of Jesus Christ. Christians gathered on the first day of the week (Which is a Sunday and not Saturday). No doubt this was to commemorate their discovery of His resurrection.

Now there is something we actually agree on. :) I will never forget on the CF site where you told LGW:

"There is a point of copying and pasting, and then there is copying and pasting crazy large walls of texts for multiple pages to the point of ridiculousness. A lot of copying and pasting here that will not be read by your average reader unless they are already biased in keeping the Old Law. No doubt you use this tactic to make it look like you know what you are talking about on this topic, but in reality it contradicts Scripture (like Colossians 2:14-17). You make it impossible for anyone to reply to you, and that's the way you like it."

Excellent observation! :)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” (Hebrews 10:10)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@PinSeeker @BloodBought 1953 @Taken @mailmandan @Eternally Grateful @JohnPaul @Ezra

So you have the promise of eternal life that cannot be lost huh?

What does scripture say?

“And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.” (1 John 2:25)

Well, you can come short of it:

“Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.” (Hebrews 4:1)

You don’t get it until after you have done the will of God:

“For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.” (Hebrews 10:36)

So go and sin no more or:

“bear your iniquities… and ye shall know my breach of promise.” (Numbers 14:34)

 

[Grailhunter]

We are talking about “progressive sanctification”, not scriptures.

I believe the scriptures.

In this regard, You speak as to the teachings of men.

I rather do this:

“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth” (1 Peter 4:11)

I will speak of sanctification as the scriptures speak of it.

I will not say “progressive sanctification” when the phrase doesn’t exist in scripture.

You are wrong, but not that wrong. It is actually better to have a policy that if a word or phrase is not in the scriptures, it should be scrutinized. That includes words and phrases like Trinity, fornication, Original Sin, eternal security - Once Saved, Always Saved, and the lot of Calvinist Slogans.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

fornication

This words does appear in the King James Bible quite frequently.