Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
797
I would fall on my face because he is GOD! And his glory would render me speechless, powerless, and God only knows what else would happen…
I would fall on my face because he is GOD! And his glory would render me speechless, powerless, and God only knows what else would happen…
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Who was it that said, Woe is me, I am a man of unclean lips?
You think you are better and more righteous that that prophet?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yep. And they did
But that does not mean they will be sinless.
Come on man, DO you honestly believe you 100% 24/7 have perfect love for everyone you come in contact with. And NEVER put your needs above anyone?
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I’m exposing the tactic. Not attacking you.
Why is it when convicting scriptures are used that immediately the cry of “context” is proclaimed?
You’d be wise to learn something out of the scriptures themselves regarding “context” (which is just a cover word for ignoring scripture): let’s see how the apostle Paul measures up to your “context” requirement:
Paul is quoting Habakkuk 1:5 here to admonish those who wouldn’t believe the gospel:
“Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.” (Acts 13:40-41)
And what is the “context”?
“For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.” (Habakkuk 1:6)
What do the Chaldeans have to do with believing the gospel? NOTHING! So I guess you could yell “context context context” at Paul to!
Jesus took away our sins and John clearly states that “we” do not sin (present time) later in the same letter. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Isaiah didn’t have a crucified saviour yet.
We do!
“For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.” (Luke 10:24)
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus paid the price for ALL men to receive Salvation.
God set His Gift of Salvation in the Midst of the whole world.
Every man who desires HIS bought and paid for Salvation,
MUST TAKE HIS GIFT, TO POSSESS HIS GIFT.
The ONLY way a man LOSES his gift, is to NOT TAKE it.
Remember when IN the Garden of Eden, God Put Adam IN the Garden?
Adam did not go in and out of the Garden?
In the Midst of the Garden God set His Gift of the Tree of Life, and said here Adam, this is for YOU? Take and eat?
Adam did not take and eat of that tree.
Thus, Adam LOST that gift. Adam was sent away from access to the Garden SENT outside of the Garden, and could not re-enter thus no longer having access to that Tree.
Same concept.
Salvation is here now.
It’s for every man to take.
A man who doesn’t TAKE it, will lose it.
The man will, bodily die, be buried, and no longer on the face of the Earth with Access to the Gift.
The condition, is the same as it was for Adam...
Take it when a man is able, or lose when the man is removed from where the gift IS, thus loses his ability to take it.
The gift becomes lost to him, because the gift is NOT where the man is removed to.
See?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Actually, Isaiah did have a Savior, (not crucified by men), but was KILLED, by Lucifer, before mankind was created.
Jesus, the Word of God, was killed, while the foundation of the Earth was being established.
Jesus IS FIRST in all things...including dying first.
OT men all had to bodily Die, BEFORE (the faithful) could Receive their Salvation. Isaiah ONLY had option to become SAVED after his physical death.
NT, with a New Testament, a New WAY, a NEW Option...
IS man can BE, (acceptably, spiritually crucified)....WITH Jesus’ BODY,
BY (a heartfully faithful and confessing man)....
BEFORE that man physically bodily dies.
THE OT method, IS still optional...IF a man BELIEVES, endures/keeps his Belief, to the day of his physical death...HE SHALL BE SAVED THEN.
^ He is not part of Christ’s Church.
^ His body shall be raised in glory after Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
This is illogical.
If he never took the gift how can he lose it???? I mean, you cannot lose something you do not posses!
Everyone has free will to walk away from salvation during the trials of this life. Bitterness can harden your heart into rebellion. Rebels will not enter the kingdom of God, wether they ever believed the gospel or not.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
The OT was never an option.
“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.” (Hebrews 10:4)
“the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24)
No he didn’t! Christ was not raised from the dead yet at that time. Isaiah heard the gospel when Christ preached it to the dead before he rose up.
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:17)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You exposed what YOU CONSIDER to be truth. And yes it was an attack, You failed to read what was said.
lol. why do you reject context. why do you not even want to look at the passage?
This speaks volumes
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
and?
He was just as saved as we are.
and he was just as much as a sinner as we are
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Read the passage, What I say7 does not matter. What jesus said in context does.
He rejects context because when his verses are taken * IN* context, they fall apart and it is embarrassing to have your confused, erroneous Doctrines exposed....
It’s as silly as using out of context verses to conjure up stuff like this—-“ If you have anger in your heart, you are as guilty as a Murderer —— now go and do likewise!” That is a ludicrous example but “ text without context is error!” Anybody that does not readily understand that is not fit for debating Scripture
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Did Paul’s aim “fall apart” when he used Habakkuk 1:5 out of context at Acts 13:41?
But I haven’t used any scripture “out of context”. And where did this unbiblical standard start anyway?! No where in scripture are we instructed to be aware of men using scriptures “out of context”.
What you should be looking for is this: men who:
- Change the word into a lie (Romans 1:25)
- Corrupt the word (2 Corinthians 2:17)
- Make the word void (Matthew 15:6)
- Question the word (Genesis 3:1)
Nevertheless the scriptures I quoted are out of the context of Once Saved Always Saved, that’s why you cry “out of context!”
Yes, it was quite silly. Farouk is exactly right. As John says:
"Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come... They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." (1 John 2:18-19)
In other words, they were not "of us," meaning they were never of God as we are, born again of the Holy Spirit, in Christ ~ though they may have been fully convinced at one time they were. They never had true faith, which is the assurance of things hoped for, of things unseen (Hebrews 11:1), the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8), and thus fell away.
Grace and peace to you.
Well, okay, understood, but... nothing temporal is able to "cause us to lose it." Observe and understand:
"...in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us... neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:37-39)
Grace and peace to you.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I’m not talking about these. I’m talking about those who are of us, and then fall away.
Not so.
And the verses you quoted don’t say “neither willful sin” can separate us; because they can (Hebrews 10:26).
Acting on and meditating on a lust to indulge in sin in this temporal world is strictly forbidden in scripture.
This is the danger of the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.
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