Once Saved Always Saved

[Behold]

FYI, the apostles wrote in Greek, they did not translate in Greek.

Were the Apostles Letters written in Greek?
If that is true, there is no need to TRANSLATE them, into "koine greek".
Follow me?
Paul probably was able to speak street lingo "koine greek".
I would not think that Peter was able to speak it much, as he was not an educated man.
Most of the Apostles were simple, basic, very mildly educated, Hebrews.
Paul was the exception, other then perhaps Matthew, who was probably "learned".

 

[Michiah-Imla]

One of the typical heresies that is taught everywhere, is that Salvation is only as good as your Discipleship.
justbyfaith teaches this, for example, as well as ferris bueller.....on this forum.

@justbyfaith and @Ferris Bueller are correct in this regard. But I wouldn’t use the term “discipleship”. I would use biblical language:

Romans 11:22
[22] ...continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

See, that is not a process, that is a NEW BIRTH, that is a COMPLETED SALVATION.

Not so, salvation is to be realized in the end of your faith, not the beginning; for the scripture says:

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matthew 24:13
...he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Were the Apostles Letters written in Greek?
If that is true, there is no need to TRANSLATE them, into "koine greek".
Follow me?
Paul probably was able to speak street lingo "koine greek".
I would not think that Peter was able to speak it much, as he was not an educated man.
Most of the Apostles were simple, basic, very mildly educated, Hebrews.
Paul was the exception, other then perhaps Matthew, who was probably "learned".

Koine Greek was the language of the people in christs day, everyone spoke it, so if you were writting a letter to everyone you would write in in Greek,

the NT was not translated to Greek, their is an OT translated into the Greek, but it also was done so everyone could read it, because the OT was written mostly in Hebrew and Aramaic

 

[Behold]

@justbyfaith and @Ferris Bueller
Romans 11:22
[22] ...continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

You need to understand your verse.
Dont just quote them, but understand them.
God knows we have enough spiritually ignorant verse quoters ranting them crazily all over this forum.

Notice....>"if you continue in HIS GOODNESS">

So, "his", is "GOD".
Its "God's Goodness" we are to exit within.., or to CONTINUE IN , once we have it, = born again.
Sadly, most dont.
See..
It's Not our works, or our lifestyle, but "HIS GOODNESS" that matters., only.
And what is that?
Its God's Salvation, that is a FREE GIFT...That is "HIS GOODNESS".

So, if you dont continue in it, and you "fall from GRACE", and start teaching that you can lose your salvation, then you have become a CROSS REJECTING Legalist, who is not "continuing in God's GOODNESS" but are now fallen from that, and have become a SELF SAVER. = A LEGALIST
When you do that, you are "cast away", and "cut off" , and have departed from the "real faith".

This does not mean you are HELL BOUND when you die, as you can't go to Hell and be "ONE WITH GOD" = Born again.
But you can "depart from the Faith"< by becoming a LEGALIST, and eventually God is going to deal with you and its not going to be fun for you, if you are one of those, Readers.
See......When you've done that, you are Galatians 1:8.
When you do that, you are "cast away" or "fallen from Grace".
And that means you are "cut off" from the LIFE of the VINE, and that is Jesus saying...."APART from me..(cut off), you can do NOTHING">.

So, these 2 you mentioned, have that issue.
Try not to have it yourself.

 

[Charlie24]

You can’t stop can you?

i said we were allowed to disagree, funny how you totally ignores that comment

you not only disagreed with me, you lied about me

I could care less about you or anyone disagreeing with me

one thing is fire sure, your pride is deep.

Your the one with the issue man. Don’t go preaching to people and try to show them how you love god when you lie about them and others,

if you can’t have an honest discussion with someone, maybe this is not the place for you

Answer the question and let's see if you are a Calvinist!

Simple isn't it! You can prove it, but you won't!

It's incriminating if you do! So much for your osas doctrine!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Answer the question and let's see if you are a Calvinist!

Simple isn't it! You can prove it, but you won't!

It's incriminating if you do! So much for your osas doctrine!

I am not a calvinist.

As I have said numerous time, I REJECT calvinist theology.

OSAS is not calvinist. thats your FIRST mistake

Grow up dude.. SHould I call you jewish or catholic because you believe in NOSAS?

 

[Charlie24]

I am not a calvinist.

As I have said numerous time, I REJECT calvinist theology.

OSAS is not calvinist. thats your FIRST mistake

Grow up dude.. SHould I call you jewish or catholic because you believe in NOSAS?

OSAS came from the theory of irresistible grace taught by the Calvinists!

If you believe man cannot lose his salvation you are a part of that theory!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You need to understand your verse.
Dont just quote them, but understand them.

Those scriptures are easy to understand. I have read the Bible many many times, and continue to do so; so I am well aware of the context of the verses that I quote in order to use them when the context applies to an erroneous teaching.

Besides, quoting short snippets of scripture is what Paul did in his epistle to the Romans (Romans 3:10-18):

Paul quotes Psalm 5:9; 10:7;14:1-3; 36:1 53:1-3; Isaiah 59:7-8

God knows we have enough spiritually ignorant verse quoters ranting them crazily all over this forum.

2 Timothy 2:19
[19] ...The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OSAS came from the theory of irresistible grace taught by the Calvinists!

If you believe man cannot lose his salvation you are a part of that theory!

Saying you can lose salvation came from the jews and the catholics.

So again should I call you jewish or catholic?

Make up your mind?

 

[Charlie24]

Saying you can lose salvation came from the jews and the catholics.

So again should I call you jewish or catholic?

Make up your mind?

I'm an Independent Baptist, I know first hand the Calvinist roots of osas in those ranks.

Spurgeon, who they pattern themselves after admitted at heart he was a Calvinist.

I know for a fact the belief of osas in the protestant ranks came from Calvin.

He was not the first to believe this, but with his theories, he made it famous.

 

[Taken]

OSAS came from the theory of irresistible grace taught by the Calvinists!

If you believe man cannot lose his salvation you are a part of that theory!

Don't know anything about what a Calvinists believes or care.

I have no clue, If "they" coined the Phrase...;
Once Saved Always Saved

What Scripture teaches;
Is receiving Salvation of ones Soul, is a Gift FOR a "CONVERTED" man.
The fact is ANYONE can believe, and NOT BE "CONVERTED", and fall from faith.
Men do not Receiving Gods Gift of Salvation, without Conversion....plain and simple.
Men do not have the POWER to Convert a man.
Men do not have the POWER to strip AWAY a mans Salvation.

Scripture is full of WARNINGS and CAUTIONING believing men, to be steadfast in their faith....OFCOURSE....that will lead such men to their CONVERSON and receiving of Gods OFFERED Gift of Salvation.

If you do not believe there ARE MEN who BELIEVE and ARE NOT CONVERTED...
IF you attend a Church, see the same faces week after week, even year after year, and all of a sudden one of those familiar faces, goes to an altar call....to CONFESS his Belief and Receive his conversion, and receive Gods Offered Gifts, (one being Salvation of his soul)....
Don't you realize that man was A BELIEVER, but NOT Converted? (Not Saved?).
If he had Stopped Believing, he did not LOSE his Salvation, BY (RECEIVING IT, and THEN having his Salvation stripped away.
He Lost his Salvation, by NEVER CLAIMING IT, by CONFESSION.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is the thing...

God is not intimidated by false doctrines as they are purported by heretics on forums like these. He is perfectly capable of raising up people to refute those heresies with scriptural logic.

The danger in moderators deleting posts and banning certain people is, I think, twofold:

1) People who are mistaken in their theology might be corrected and possibly even saved if they are only given the chance to express their views so that they can be refuted by the scripturally literate; and,

2) If a moderator holds a certain point of view (such as Calvinism) he or she may end up deleting posts that set forth, or banning posters that set forth, a different point of view; and in doing so, the truth would be censored.

Because if moderators delete and censor anything that they don't agree with, then the truth is in danger of being censored, should the moderator disagree with the truth.

However, when people are allowed to discuss doctrine freely, the truth cannot help but be told in the long run if there is at least one person posting who has the Holy Spirit.

For the person who has the Holy Spirit will refute every false point of view; because they have been given a mouth and wisdom that none of their adversaries will be able to gainsay nor resist (Luke 21:15, Acts of the Apostles 6:10).

Is that you don't <fify> want to get banned.
We understand.
No need to explain.

That is correct....but of course it is expedient for me to give the explanation that I have given above.

Paul himself said he was not perfect but I suppose you are!

Don't come and tell me you don't fail our Lord in one way or another. You are only fooling yourself to think that.

I don't consider myself to have apprehended...and this makes me a candidate for perfection (Philippians 3:15 and context).

See 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17;

Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm an Independent Baptist, I know first hand the Calvinist roots of osas in those ranks.

Spurgeon, who they pattern themselves after admitted at heart he was a Calvinist.

I know for a fact the belief of osas in the protestant ranks came from Calvin.

He was not the first to believe this, but with his theories, he made it famous.

That’s interesting, I was an independent Baptist for almost 30 years. We always believed In Eternal,security, I have never met a Baptist in my travels through the United States that rejects eternal security,

so again, using your line of reasoning, should I call you a Jew or Catholic?

please answer the question. I all sick of your calvinist bull if your going to use that as an excuse, tell me what I can call,you?

or else humble yourself and let’s discuss what the Bible says, Not what calvin or arminian or the pope or some Baptist pastor says

or continue to slander me proving you have no integrity, and I will move on

 

[justbyfaith]

In Luke 8:13 it becomes clear that someone can believe for a while and then fall away.

It is heresy to teach that the person who thus falls away continues to have salvation.

But, this is what @Behold teaches.

 

[Charlie24]

That’s interesting, I was an independent Baptist for almost 30 years. We always believed In Eternal,security, I have never met a Baptist in my travels through the United States that rejects eternal security,

so again, using your line of reasoning, should I call you a Jew or Catholic?

please answer the question. I all sick of your calvinist bull if your going to use that as an excuse, tell me what I can call,you?

or else humble yourself and let’s discuss what the Bible says, Not what calvin or arminian or the pope or some Baptist pastor says

or continue to slander me proving you have no integrity, and I will move on

That's because Calvin did a great job of making it stick. OSAS was ground into the fabric many years ago, those old Baptist/Calvinist are fading away, but the effects of what they grounded themselves in is alive and well.

Look, you can believe whatever you like, I'm sticking with what I'm sure the scripture teaches!

If I'm no longer your Brother, you won't be the first to say so, that's for sure, and it's fine with me!

If you never address another of my posts, that will also be fine, let God be the judge!

I'll face Him on my belief of OSAS, stand or fall, I believe with every fiber of my being this is correct!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's because Calvin did a great job of making it stick. OSAS was ground into the fabric many years ago, those old Baptist/Calvinist are fading away, but the effects of what they grounded themselves in is alive and well.

Look, you can believe whatever you like, I'm sticking with what I'm sure the scripture teaches!

If I'm no longer your Brother, you won't be the first to say so, that's for sure, and it's fine with me!

If you never address another of my posts, that will also be fine, let God be the judge!

I'll face Him on my belief of OSAS, stand or fall, I believe with every fiber of my being this is correct!

Ok, I will call you a Catholic ok? Does that work? You call me a calvinist I will call you a Catholic and we can have a good honest discussion with each other. Does that work?

 

[FHII]

You can't siply reject the original languages used just because you preper the English translation. That's not how a serious student of Scripture approaches the Word of God

First off, your accusation is baseless. Second, whether its simply knowledge or "super duper" knowledge... It doesn't change the verse's meaning and it doesn't support or oppose the concept of predestination or OSAS. My whole point is that most people entirely misunderstand the verse to begin with.

As to your rudimentary definition of "Epignosis" - I already presented the following scholarly Protestant evidence that FULLY explains the implications of this word and its Biblical use, so do your homework:

I didn't give my "rudimentary" definition. I gave the Strong's Greek Concordance definition (you know... The one you didn't see fit to give). I look at the definitions of each and all the mumbo jumbo of the Protestant guys you prop up as long as they support your belief, and yes... I can give you a simpler and more correct definition. I get it from the Bible! But... I sincerely doubt you care. Somebody else wants to know, I'll tell them. What you need to know, BOL, is that it still doesn't support or deny predestination.

And please... Who are you trying to fool? You have no respect for these "Protestant" scholars. You even said so yourself. I have respect for anyone who sincerely studies the Word of God, but whether they are Catholic or Protestant doesn't matter to me, because I am neither! When they are right, I applaud them. When they are wrong, I point it out.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I rely on translators. This is why comparing different English translations is informative. I kind of look at language translation or transliteration as a multi-faceted gem. For instance, in the Eskimo language they have 28 words for snow. We add adjectives, like icy, powdery, slushy.

Anyone who asserts English is some kind of back water, obsolete or dead language that cannot possibly communicate effectively what concepts originate in other languages is fooling themselves.

There is NO English equivalent for the Greek word "Epignosis", as I AMPLY showed in my last post.
It is explained over and over again in the scholarly evdence I presented in post #632. You can either deal with this evidence - or live in denial of it.

Another example of this would be in Luke 1:28, where the word , "Kecharitomene" is used.
- Jerome translated it as "Gratia plena" (Full of Grace).
- The KJV translates it as "Highly favoured".

The ACTUAL definition is: "One who has been completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace". It is a perfect participle that indicates a completed action with a permanent result.

The next verse (v. 29) says:
"But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be."
Mary couldn't even figure it out

NEITHER Jerome NOR the KJV trnslates this verse perfectly - in fact, not even close.
But, according to YOU - as long as its in English, it's "correct". That's nonsense.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But you just said...Your

"Mindset was COMPLETELY Changed when you were born again"...

How would 2 Corinthians 11:3 then apply to you?

The lies creep in to suppress the Holy Spirit in me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And...they claim they can THEN SIN...is a man taught LIE!

Here's where Paul talks about believers sinning....

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:18-20​

I don't think he's lying. Believers can sin.