Once Saved Always Saved

[Taken]

That’s what YOU need to do.

I've already DONE what I need to do.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[/]
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Maybe you do not UNDERSTAND, ONCE a man is held in the Lord Gods Hand, there IS AN AGREEMENT between that man and the Lord God, to FOREVER be together.

Here is it again:

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if WE sin wilfully after that WE have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

YES, again, YOU present a Scripture ABOUT KNOWLEDGE.
KNOWLEDGE IS NOT REVEALING A MAN HAS RECEIVED SALVATION!
THAT SCRIPTURE does not reveal one iota of a man "HAVING RECEIVED SALVATION."

WE have received salvation!

No. That Scripture Expressly reveals the "RECEIVING OF KNOWLEDGE"!

Scripture IDENTIFIES an EXPRESS "RECEIVING OF SALVATION".
(Hint....It about CONFESSING BELIEF, "OF" the Knowledge of Truth they received!)

Knowledge itself, is one thing.
Confessing to BELIEVE the KNOWLEDGE is another thing.

Learn the TRUTH.
Rom 10:
[9] That IF thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

GET IT?
Having KNOWLEDGE is one thing.
CONFESSING TO BELIEVE the KNOWLEDGE, is HOW a man RECEIVES SALVATION.

YET again you have NOT revealed ONE SCRIPTURE whereby a man RECEIVED SALVATION and then became UNSAVED.

 

[Taken]

Hebrews 6:1-8.



This is appropriated by a faith that abides.



It is also talking about us.

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.



Jas 2:14, What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15, If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17, Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18, Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20, But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21, Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22, Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23, And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24, Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25, Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26, For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Heb 11:17, By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19, Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.



That's good news. That means that when the Antichrist comes, no one is going to worship him...but what does the scripture say?

Rev 13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So long a post and convoluted.
Quote a man having been saved and then became unsaved.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your opinion is that Mods should only intervene if there is too much yelling, or if someone's cult or church is being attacked?
I dont share your opinion, and i think your opinion is deceived.

Here is the reality.
A christian forum, is not to be a spiritual toilet where anything and everything, deceived and worse, is ALLOWED to come and park and preach God denying, Jesus's BLOOD abusing, Theology.

So, this means that a Forum is an online Church. And that means the Mod's #1 job, is to keep it CLEAN and FREE from heretics.
If they dont then they are not fulfilling their obligation to God,

Here is the thing...

God is not intimidated by false doctrines as they are purported by heretics on forums like these. He is perfectly capable of raising up people to refute those heresies with scriptural logic.

The danger in moderators deleting posts and banning certain people is, I think, twofold:

1) People who are mistaken in their theology might be corrected and possibly even saved if they are only given the chance to express their views so that they can be refuted by the scripturally literate; and,

2) If a moderator holds a certain point of view (such as Calvinism) he or she may end up deleting posts that set forth, or banning posters that set forth, a different point of view; and in doing so, the truth would be censored.

Because if moderators delete and censor anything that they don't agree with, then the truth is in danger of being censored, should the moderator disagree with the truth.

However, when people are allowed to discuss doctrine freely, the truth cannot help but be told in the long run if there is at least one person posting who has the Holy Spirit.

For the person who has the Holy Spirit will refute every false point of view; because they have been given a mouth and wisdom that none of their adversaries will be able to gainsay nor resist (Luke 21:15, Acts of the Apostles 6:10).

 

[justbyfaith]

So long a post and convoluted.

No. For some of it was not addressed to you.

Quote a man having been saved and then became unsaved.

Romans 11:20-22, Hebrews 6:1-8.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I believe that you and I are on the same page about many things... I just want clarification on this quote of yours...

Do you not mean sanctification is a process that takes place over time? Or do you actually mean salvation is worked on through-out your life...
( meaning... it is not a gift given in one lump sum at the time of conversion but accomplished by different steps in our lives?? )....

The Bible mentions three aspects of our salvation: justification, sanctification, and glorification. This describes the Jesus followers at different stages of salvation. The OSAS debate, however, posits that salvation is granted immediately after justification, essentially defining salvation in terms of justification. In this view, a person can be saved without being sanctified; sanctification is what happens after we are saved.

So then, the debate is whether one can lose glorification if an individual fails at sanctification. In other words, suppose a person decides to stop walking with Jesus and focus on worldly concerns? Doesn't this demonstrate that salvation can be lost? In my view, this seems like a reasonable conclusion, but only if one assumes that salvation is essentially justification. If this is a mistaken assumption, then this would not be a reasonable conclusion.

Romans 8:26-30
Take a look a Romans 8:30, for instance, which concludes Paul's argument that salvation can't be lost, and is intended (in my view) to be a very encouraging passage. In verse 30, Paul draws an unbroken straight line from predestination to glorification. He writes, "[T]hese whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." In Paul's mind, there is no room for a situation whereby some individuals whom God justified did not eventually arrive at glorification. This concept should inform our OSAS debate, calling into question the assumptions we made. Apparently it isn't true that justification is exactly synonymous with salvation. Justification, rather, is but one step in a much larger process. But if one is truly being saved, then the process remains unbroken from start to finish.

Encouraging words, in my opinion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

995 works......sorry.....

Lol, Actually you about hit it.

add in some gold, silver and possible precious stones, vs a lot of ash after the fire..and we have it.

both are saved

an unbeliever can do no works, their works are as filthy rags and will have no reward.

 

[justbyfaith]

In verse 30, Paul draws an unbroken straight line from predestination to glorification. He writes, "[T]hese whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." In Paul's mind, there is no room for a situation whereby some individuals whom God justified did not eventually arrive at glorification.

Of course, in the middle of that straight line a person must be called; which is where Acts of the Apostles 2:39 comes in, in relation to the conditional promise of Acts of the Apostles 2:38.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

It’s interesting how you left out the verse containing the CONDITIONS of the promise you so boldly proclaimed:

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

So, are you FOLLOWING and HEARING Christ to qualify for the “they shall never perish” promise?

Let’s see:

1. Are you denying yourself (Matthew 16:24)?
2. Are you taking up your cross (Matthew 16:24)?
3. Are you following in his steps (1 Peter 2:21-21)?
4. Have you invited handicapped people to a dinner at your home (Luke 14:12)?
5. Do you love your enemies (Luke 6:27)?
6. Do you bless them that curse you (Luke 6:28)?
7. Do you pray for them that despitefully use you (Luke 6:28)?
8. Would allow someone to smite you multiple times (Luke 6:29)?
9. Do you give to everyone that asks of you (Luke 6:30)?
10. Do you walk in darkeness (John 8:12)?
11. Do you love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:39)?
12. Do you keep Christ’s/God’s commandments (John 14:15-23)?

I think you get the point...

 

[justbyfaith]

Let’s see:

1. Are you denying yourself (Matthew 16:24)?
2. Are you taking up your cross (Matthew 16:24)?
3. Are you following in his steps (1 Peter 2:21-21)?
4. Have you invited handicapped people to a dinner at your home (Luke 14:12)?
5. Do you love your enemies (Luke 6:27)?
6. Do you bless them that curse you (Luke 6:28)?
7. Do you pray for them that despitefully use you (Luke 6:28)?
8. Would allow someone to smite you multiple times (Luke 6:29)?
9. Do you give to everyone that asks of you (Luke 6:30)?
10. Do you walk in darkeness (John 8:12)?
11. Do you love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:39)?
12. Do you keep Christ’s/God’s commandments (John 14:15-23)?

Have you done all of the above?

 

[CadyandZoe]

There are two seemingly contradictory passages on this.

One is a parable where the people who worked from the 11th hour are paid the same as those who worked from the beginning of the day.

The other is the situation in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 where we find that we are building a building on the foundation of Jesus Christ with gold, sliver, precious gems, wood, hay, stubble, and what we build will be tested and revealed by fire. Whatever remains = our reward.

The focus of 1Corinthians 3:11-15 isn't everyone, but only focused on teachers. Local teachers are those who are building on the foundation that Paul laid.

 

[justbyfaith]

The focus of 1Corinthians 3:11-15 isn't everyone, but only focused on teachers. Local teachers are those who are building on the foundation that Paul laid.

So, teachers have degrees of reward but other people don't?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Have you done all of the above?

So these scriptures aren’t for you, huh?

And yes, I have done the things the Lord has commanded me. Because I love him:

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Addy]

The Bible mentions three aspects of our salvation: justification, sanctification, and glorification. This describes the Jesus followers at different stages of salvation. The OSAS debate, however, posits that salvation is granted immediately after justification, essentially defining salvation in terms of justification. In this view, a person can be saved without being sanctified; sanctification is what happens after we are saved.

So then, the debate is whether one can lose glorification if an individual fails at sanctification. In other words, suppose a person decides to stop walking with Jesus and focus on worldly concerns? Doesn't this demonstrate that salvation can be lost? In my view, this seems like a reasonable conclusion, but only if one assumes that salvation is essentially justification. If this is a mistaken assumption, then this would not be a reasonable conclusion.

Thank you for the explanation... I am secure in my beliefs... but I have to admit this is not a good topic for me to dwell in because it angers me... LOL... I have had many discussions regarding the possibility of losing one's salvation..... and they have only served to bring forth condemnation.. guilt and shame upon me. I have family members who are of the belief that one can lose their salvation... they are not pleasant people to be around. LOL

 

[CadyandZoe]

2 Corinthians 2:10-11
[10] To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; [11] Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

@Taken what would you suppose Satan getting an advantage of and devouring us entails?

And remember when Jesus prayed for Peter:

Luke 22:31-32
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Then we have the infamous most twisted passage:

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

NONE OF THESE SCRIPTURES ARE NECESSARY IF YOU COULD NEVER LOSE YOUR SALVATION!

The Luke Passage actually disproves your point. Jesus clearly demonstrates that the Father is fully capable and willing to keep Peter from walking away from the faith. Why would Jesus pray to the father, if the choice was in Peter's hands?

 

[Taken]

That's good news. That means that when the Antichrist comes, no one is going to worship him...but what does the scripture say?

Rev 13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

BOOK(S).

Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All men shall stand before Judgement.
The EVIDENCE "FOR AND AGAINST" every man, IS according TO, the "INFORMATION"...
IN or NOT IN "GODS....BOOK(S).

Gods BOOK of LIFE- records the name of EVERY man ever Naturally Born.
* A man who REJECTS GOD, has his NAME "BLOTTED OUT".
No Name, No man for God to CLAIM.

The LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE- records the name of EVERY man who Accepted Christ Jesus' Offering and RECEIVED the Lords GIFT of SALVATION.
This man NAME- NOT BLOTTED OUT of Gods Book of LIFE.
This man- Heard of Jesus, ACCEPTED His OFFER of Salvation, and that man's NAME "ENTERED" /written in the Lambs Book of Life.
A mans NAME IN THE Lambs Book of Life can NEVER BE BLOTTED OUT.
(Once Saved, Saved FOREVER).

Gods BOOK of TREASURES.
THESE are Records of Every mans WORKS.
ALL WORKS a man has ever done in his entire life (saved or unsaved).
These "WORKS" are JUDGED.
ALL works that DID NOT GLORIFY GOD, are BURNED.

No unsaved man CAN ACCOMPLISH works to glorify God.

Saved men Do all kinds of words that do Not glorify God.

Only a Saved man CAN do works to Glorify God.

There SHALL be ... BILLIONS of works, by saved and unsaved men...BURNED.

The Works of a Saved man, THAT GLORIFIED God, shall be works rewarded...BY GOD...
(IF a man did NOT reward the man).
Meaning if a man did works to glorify God, and the man himself be given and take credit ... receive a ceremony, plack, trophy, ribbon blah, blah.... for his works....THAT IS his Reward, and no other reward for THAT works will be given that man, from God.)

 

[CadyandZoe]

Thank you for the explanation... I am secure in my beliefs... but I have to admit this is not a good topic for me to dwell in because it angers me... LOL... I have had many discussions regarding the possibility of losing one's salvation..... and they have only served to bring forth condemnation.. guilt and shame upon me. I have family members who are of the belief that one can lose their salvation... they are not pleasant people to be around. LOL

I understand. Many of my family members aren't Christians and it took me a long time to grieve for them. I went through all the stages, but at the moment I am resolved that God is good and wise and he will do the right thing. In other words, I am learning to rest in him, just as I trust that you are also. :)

 

[Taken]

It’s interesting how you left out the verse containing the CONDITIONS of the promise you so boldly proclaimed:

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

So, are you FOLLOWING and HEARING Christ to qualify for the “they shall never perish” promise?

Continuing to Deflect from the Question is well....Deflecting.

I'm Not the one proclaiming Jesus' Promise is worthless, by saying Jesus' gift of Salvation, can become undone.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Continuing to Deflect from the Question is well....Deflecting.

Just tell me, is the writer of Hebrews saved?

And if he is, why does he include himself with this statement with regards to the danger of willful sin?:

Hebrews 10:26-27
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Did the writer of Hebrews just receive “knowledge” without being saved?

Try not to deflect.

 

[justbyfaith]

So these scriptures aren’t for you, huh?

And yes, I have done the things the Lord has commanded me. Because I love him:

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

So, you think that if someone doesn't invite the lame and the blind in for a meal, they aren't saved?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So, you think that if someone doesn't invite the lame and the blind in for a meal, they aren't saved?

If it’s in your power to do so (if you own a home) and willfully ignore the calling and opportunity; the Lord will say this to you:

Matthew 25:41-43
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: [42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: [43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.