Offenders in the kingdom

[grafted branch]

Hello Grafted branch,

It seems to me a great question! Im reminded of those who were of Christ by did not proclaim Jesus cause they were afraid to get discharged from the temple, as an example. There is probably one more instance in the bible somewhere about this as well concerning people who were saying they were of the Lord but was not, and I believe its somewhere in the other letters and not the 4 gospels themselves.

Yes, I think the main offense was not believing Jesus was the Messiah but denying they believed when they really did believe is just as bad.

 

[ewq1938]

I’ll tell what I’m going do, this is a one time limited offer that’s just too good to pass up. I’ll let you try the Preterist view for free for 30 days. And if after 30 days, for any reason, you decide you no longer like the Preterist view you can cancel and keep any unused portion as our gift to you, no questions asked.

What you say, are you ready to try Preterism?

I have already tried that. Get it? It's a Preterist joke.

 

[grafted branch]

Just found the following article below. Thus far I have read some of it not all of it. What I have read I'm pretty much in agreement with for the most part. Worth reading if you have the time and are open about this subject rather than closed-minded.

My view is and always has been that tares are meaning false believers in the body of Christ. The author at the link below appears to agree.

Nine Characteristics of Tares—The Believer’s Enemy

In more than 42 years of ministry, my experience has been that most of the time a believer’s greatest persecution comes from people who identify themselves as believers. Why is that?

capmin.org

I looked at that article and here are my thoughts on it.

That article basically has the tares as unbelievers in the church who claim they are saved. If we are to accept that interpretation then we have to also accept that a church shouldn’t excommunicate a person who is found out to be a tare. In fact the church needs to allow those tares to grow and come to full maturity within the church.

That article describes how to identify a tare, but doesn’t address the full ramifications of that idea. What it means is those very tares must not be excommunicated for any of the reasons that are used to identify them as tares in the first place else that would be disobedience to God’s word according to that interpretation of the parable.

Alright, I haven’t tried to go through all the verses on excommunication but 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 is probably the best example.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

The verse’s above identify what a tare can’t be, which contradicts the articles list of how to identify a tare.

When I look at this interpretation it means when Satan sows the tares he is only sowing a specific kind of seed, a seed that can’t be excommunicated. This doesn’t seem to be consistent with Satan going about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

These are my thoughts so far.

 

[Timtofly]

Your error. Scripture says no such thing.

SEALS…No mention of Jesus.

7 Seals…Rev 6, Rev 8…Wrath of the Lamb of God, who is IN Heaven.

7 Trumps…Rev 8, Rev 9, Rev 11 …Wrath of the Devil who is ON Earth.

Son of Man SEEN on a WHITE cloud…(Cloud, is NOT EARTH)…Rev 14
Dividing people.

7 Bowls/vials…..Rev 16….Wrath of God who is IN Heaven.

KING of kings arrives…WHITE Horse, Crowns ON the Word of God (Jesus) with Power (Christ) ….KING ON Earth.
Rev 20

Step by step reveals WHO is where and doing WHAT.

Of course the Lamb is on the earth at the 6th Seal.

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

They are hiding from the Lamb on the earth, like Adam was hiding in the Garden of Eden from God. People don't currently hide, because Jesus is not on the earth. They are hiding in the 6th Seal, because Jesus is on the earth.

Jesus sets up His glorious throne in a Temple in Jerusalem at the 6th Seal. Then sits in judgment over Israel.


"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The first coming was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Second Coming at the 6th Seal is the baptism of fire, and Jesus starts in Jerusalem and Israel cleaning up His house, before the wheat and tares are even sown.

 

[Davidpt]

People don't currently hide, because Jesus is not on the earth.

Sounds like a valid argument to me. But even so, how do you explain the differences between that account and the following account?

First, the account in Revelation 6.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Next the other account I was referring to.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Per the former they are hiding. Per the latter no one is even hiding when Revelation 19:11 is being fulfilled. And until Revelation 19:11 is fulfilled this would mean Christ is still in heaven in the meantime.

Which comes first then? They are hiding after Christ has already set foot on earth? Or they are not hiding when Christ sets foot on the earth, but then start hiding after He does?

IOW, this?

A) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Or this?

B) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Per A) one would have to explain how they went from being brave by gathering together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army, to then becoming fearful and hiding themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains?

Per B) one would have to explain how they went from hiding to no longer being in fear, to then being brave and gathered together in order to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army?

 

[tailgator]

Sounds like a valid argument to me. But even so, how do you explain the differences between that account and the following account?

First, the account in Revelation 6.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Next the other account I was referring to.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Per the former they are hiding. Per the latter no one is even hiding when Revelation 19:11 is being fulfilled. And until Revelation 19:11 is fulfilled this would mean Christ is still in heaven in the meantime.

Which comes first then? They are hiding after Christ has already set foot on earth? Or they are not hiding when Christ sets foot on the earth, but then start hiding after He does?

IOW, this?

A) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Or this?

B) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Per A) one would have to explain how they went from being brave by gathering together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army, to then becoming fearful and hiding themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains?

Per B) one would have to explain how they went from hiding to no longer being in fear, to then being brave and gathered together in order to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army?

After the abomination of desolation (nuke)is set up in revelation 6 causing the heavens to depart as a scroll being rolled together,then they will all flee to the mountains to their doomsday dens,and then will tell the mountains over them to fall on us.



Luke 23
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Doomsday dens: Inside Israel's bomb shelters – in pictures

There are more than a million bomb shelters in Israel, reflecting the nation’s collective siege mentality. But fear of doomsday hasn’t stopped people adapting them into gyms, rehearsal rooms and even dance class venues

www.theguardian.com

 

[tailgator]

Of course the Lamb is on the earth at the 6th Seal.

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

They are hiding from the Lamb on the earth, like Adam was hiding in the Garden of Eden from God. People don't currently hide, because Jesus is not on the earth. They are hiding in the 6th Seal, because Jesus is on the earth.

Jesus sets up His glorious throne in a Temple in Jerusalem at the 6th Seal. Then sits in judgment over Israel.


"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The first coming was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Second Coming at the 6th Seal is the baptism of fire, and Jesus starts in Jerusalem and Israel cleaning up His house, before the wheat and tares are even sown.

The Lamb is in the clouds.

The two witnesses ascend into heaven In that cloud which departs from.the earth in revelation 6.

 

[tailgator]

Sounds like a valid argument to me. But even so, how do you explain the differences between that account and the following account?

First, the account in Revelation 6.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Next the other account I was referring to.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Per the former they are hiding. Per the latter no one is even hiding when Revelation 19:11 is being fulfilled. And until Revelation 19:11 is fulfilled this would mean Christ is still in heaven in the meantime.

Which comes first then? They are hiding after Christ has already set foot on earth? Or they are not hiding when Christ sets foot on the earth, but then start hiding after He does?

IOW, this?

A) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Or this?

B) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Per A) one would have to explain how they went from being brave by gathering together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army, to then becoming fearful and hiding themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains?

Per B) one would have to explain how they went from hiding to no longer being in fear, to then being brave and gathered together in order to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army?

Everyone in Israel is being destroyed in Israel in revelation 6 while the 144000 are recieving the mark of God in their foreheads.Ezekirl wrote about the same occasion.

Ezekiel 9
9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.



144000 receive the mark of God in their foreheads while the rest of Israel recieves Benjamin Netanyahu's mark

 

[Taken]

Of course the Lamb is on the earth at the 6th Seal.

Disagree.

“And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

The one who SIT ON THE THRONE…IS God.
Gods THRONE is Heaven.
The FACE of Him ON THE THRONE ..IS God.
The Lamb of God … IS IN Heaven.
The Lamb of God…IS OPENING the SEALS.
Each SEAL OPENED..sends WRATH upon the EARTH.

It is the UNRIGHTEOUS Men ON EARTH “SPEAKING”….Wanting the Earths Quaking Rocks to Fall “ON THEM” “AS IF, the Rocks WILL HIDE them “FROM” Gods Face. / Gods SIGHT… “OF” HE / God WHO Sits “ON … THE Throne…IN HEAVEN”.

READ the TESTIMONY…
* Rev. 1:1…
From God to Jesus Christ to His Holy Angel, to His Faithful Servant John, to the Seven Churches…to ALL men ON Earth…

READ the TESTIMONY…
* HOW John Received the Testimony…
* Spirit of God, to Spirit of Jesus Christ, to Spirit of Holy Angel, to spirit of John
~. Rev 1:10 …John’s body ON EARTH…
John’s spirit IN Gods Spirit.
~ Rev 4:2 ….John’s body ON EARTH….
John’s spirit IN Heaven.

The LAMB of God……IN HEAVEN…
~ Entire Chapter FIVE…Revelations.

The ENTIRE PURPOSE Of Gods TRIBULATIONS SENT DOWN from HEAVEN…
IS: to PUNISH the Inhabitants OF and UPON the EARTH.

Rom 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

The ENTIRE REASON For Gods TRIBULATIONS SENT DOWN from HEAVEN…
IS: BECAUSE of Gods ANGER.

The ENTIRE REASON for Gods ANGER….the Lambs ANGER…and even the Devils ANGER…
IS: FOR Mans Rejection of God, of the Lamb, of the Devil…

The ANGER…OF God, OF the Lamb, OF the Devil……SHALL BE REVEALED…DURING the Tribulations SENT DOWN from Heaven…
By, Through, Of:
The Wrath of the Lamb… Rev 6:16
The Wrath of the Devil…Rev 12:12
The Wrath of God… Rev 16:1

They are hiding from the Lamb on the earth, like Adam was hiding in the Garden of Eden from God. People don't currently hide, because Jesus is not on the earth. They are hiding in the 6th Seal, because Jesus is on the earth.

THEY are “unrighteous” human men, “OF” the WORLD and “ON”” EARTH….Hiding FROM the ALL SEEING INVISIBLE GOD, SITTING ON His THRONE…IN Heaven.

Nothing whatsoever…SAYS ADAM “could SEE God”….ONLY that God could SEE Adam!

Again…READ the Scriptures that reveal the TRUTH…
Rev; chapter 5 … The Lamb of God IS IN Heaven…with the Book of Seven Seals. He opens the Seals, one by one…AND each seal Opened Reveals HIS (the Lamb of Gods) INCREASED Wrath UPON the earth and the UNRIGHTEOUS inhabitants “OF” the Earth.

The Scripture IS CLEAR…WHO IS WHERE, and WHY, and WHAT they are DOING..

The Lamb of God IS IN Heaven…Opening the Seals. The Unrighteous “OF” the world are “ON” the Earth AND SHALL be SUBJECT TO experiencing ...
THE WRATH(S)…
~OF the Lamb…
IF their body dies…..during any seal opening….their body stops suffering.
~OF the Devil…
IF their body dies….their body stops suffering .
~OF God..
IF their body dies…during any of the 7 vials being poured out (oops, their body is KEPT from DYING During any of the pouring out of the 7 vials)….they SHALL bodily suffer, ALL of the 7 vials)….THEN bodily die.

WHO…IS NOT APPOINTED TO Bodily, soul, or spirit…TO SUFFER “ANY” Tribulations or Wrath SENT DOWN from Heaven UPON the WHOLE World and it’s Inhabitants???
(1 Thes 5:9)
(Rom 12:12)

* The ALREADY “bodily” DEAD, WITHOUT belief. Their Dead body feels, knows nothing, Their departed Living soul, IN HELL, suffering separation of God.

* The ALREADY “bodily DEAD, who DIED believing IN God…Their Dead body feels, knows nothing.
Their departed Living soul, IN HEAVEN, in peace with God.
* Their BODY, God SHALL “RAISE”…Bring with Him…According to Gods Timing. (First Resurrection)…
1 Thes 4:14
Rev 20:5

* The ALREADY “bodily” DEAD… IN Christ.
Their soul sav-ED, Their spirit quicken-ED…
* They ALREADY “bodily” Dead “CRUCIFIED with Jesus’ Body”,
Occupying Jesus’ Glorified Risen Body…
(1 Cor 12:27)
(Rom 12:12)

* UNTIL their own BODY is glorified and CALLED UP, BY COMMAND OF their Lord, RISEN UP to MEET their Lord…IN the Clouds, which IS IN the AIR…ABOVE the Earth…“IN” the Clouds…
1 Pet 3:21
1 Thes 4: 15, 16, 17

*The Word of God…called The Son of Man…called Jesus…was Sent forth out from God IN Heaven…to Earth….AS A humble Servant OF God.
* WHILE ON EARTH…He was Revealed …
He IS the Son of God…
He IS the Christ…(Power OF God, Seed of God, Wisdom of God.)
(Some believe it, Some do not, Some Commit to believing, Some do not.)
* It was the Son of Man Who was Witnessed by eyes of earthly men, Rising UP and Returning to Heaven IN the CLOUDS.
* It IS the Son of Man WHO SHALL RETURN TO EARTH…(so AGAIN ALL Earthly mens EYES CAN see Him).
AND HIS RETURN SHALL BE AS HE LEFT…WITH CLOUDS.
(Rev 1:7)

[/I] Your teaching of the LAMB of God…JESUS….(called the Son of Man), being ON EARTH During the Beginning of Gods Tribulations send DOWN FROM Heaven upon the whole Earth….IS erroneous.

During the Tribulations sent down from Heaven….
The Lamb of God is IN Heaven.
The Son of Man is IN Heaven.
Jesus the Son of Man, the Son of God, is IN Heaven.
The Christ the Lord has descended FROM Heaven TO the Clouds…is IN the Clouds, WITH “those” whom are “IN CHRIST”….WHO ARE CALLED UP, DELIVERED, to MEET THEIR Lord “as He IS”…Spirit, as they have been “RISEN”…”MADE”…spirit…immortal…INVISIBLE to eyes of Natural mankind inhabitants upon the face of the earth.

It is A SPIRITUAL EVENT, FOR Spiritual EYES, to SEE, and a Quickened spiritual spirit of manKIND to Spiritually Understand what IS promised to Him to spiritually Experience WHILE the Face of the Earth is Experience Tribulations and wrath.

You are preaching the words of NON-spiritual men, Erroneously Taught to you, VIA the Carnal minds of men.

Read, Study the harmonizing Scriptures OF ANY TOPIC…
THEN THE ASK GOD HIMSELF….(NOT MEN)…to reveal to you HIS Spiritual Understanding of His OWN WORDS.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken










of the Devil, of God.






Jesus sets up His glorious throne in a Temple in Jerusalem at the 6th Seal. Then sits in judgment over Israel.


"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The first coming was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Second Coming at the 6th Seal is the baptism of fire, and Jesus starts in Jerusalem and Israel cleaning up His house, before the wheat and tares are even sown.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Davidpt]

Disagree.



The one who SIT ON THE THRONE…IS God.
Gods THRONE is Heaven.
The FACE of Him ON THE THRONE ..IS God.
The Lamb of God … IS IN Heaven.
The Lamb of God…IS OPENING the SEALS.
Each SEAL OPENED..sends WRATH upon the EARTH.

There is another way to look at some of this as well. It depends how far one is willing to think outside of the box, though.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Exodus 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Genesis 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee , neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

It's pretty obvious, to me anyway, that seeing the face of God involves wrath, for one thing. And the reason why Lot's wife became a pillar of salt when she looked back is explained per this---Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live(Exodus 33:20) .

Which would mean the 6th seal involves God's literal presence at some point the same way Genesis 19:24-25 involved His literal presence.

 

[tailgator]

Here yet again,the subjects of the kingdom being removed from the kingdom..They chose the beast to worship.

Amos 5
“Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king,
the pedestal of your idols,
the star of your god[b]—
which you made for yourselves.
27 Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus,”
says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty.

 

[Davidpt]

Everyone in Israel is being destroyed in Israel in revelation 6 while the 144000 are recieving the mark of God in their foreheads.Ezekirl wrote about the same occasion.

Ezekiel 9
9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.



144000 receive the mark of God in their foreheads while the rest of Israel recieves Benjamin Netanyahu's mark

Until you submitted this I never even considered Ezekiel 9 before. But after reading Ezekiel 9 again I can for sure see some similarities with that of some passages in Revelation. I'm not sure what to think about at this point. It's interesting for sure.

 

[Davidpt]

Here yet again,the subjects of the kingdom being removed from the kingdom..They chose the beast to worship.

Amos 5
“Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king,
the pedestal of your idols,
the star of your god[b]—
which you made for yourselves.
27 Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus,”
says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty.

IMO, a better passage that fit with what is going on per the tares being removed might be the following, which, BTW, sounds similar to the sheep and goats judgment, and may even be meaning it. Especially verse 38.

Ezekiel 20:33 ¶As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[tailgator]

IMO, a better passage that fit with what is going on per the tares being removed might be the following, which, BTW, sounds similar to the sheep and goats judgment, and may even be meaning it. Especially verse 38.

Ezekiel 20:33 ¶As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

What about the people who are in the land of Israel when the saints are gathered there?


Mathew 8
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Timtofly]

Per B) one would have to explain how they went from hiding to no longer being in fear, to then being brave and gathered together in order to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army?

At the 6th Seal, there are over 8 billion people on earth, not ready for the Second Coming and baptism of fire. They were not ready for God's Judgment on earth.

At Armageddon there are only those with the mark, left on the earth, sold out to Satan. They are gathered to defend Satan's mystery Babylon.

 

[Timtofly]

The one who SIT ON THE THRONE…IS God.
Gods THRONE is Heaven.
The FACE of Him ON THE THRONE ..IS God.
The Lamb of God … IS IN Heaven.
The Lamb of God…IS OPENING the SEALS.
Each SEAL OPENED..sends WRATH upon the EARTH.

God's throne is the GWT, always has been. It is both on earth and in heaven. Being spiritually blind, no one can see the spiritual aspect of creation.

When the heavens are dissolved, so will be the spiritual blindness.

The 6th Seal has the angels come to earth, along with the Lamb. It is also what Zechariah 14 declares. The 6th Seal is the baptism of fire:

"He shall baptize you with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley... And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

 

[Taken]

God's throne is the GWT, always has been. It is both on earth and in heaven.

Isa 66:
[1]Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The 6th Seal has the angels come to earth, along with the Lamb. It is also what Zechariah 14 declares. The 6th Seal is the baptism of fire:

Zach 14:
??

Zach 14: mentions the Lamb? Where?
Zech 14: mentions the 6th Seal? Where?

"He shall baptize you with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley... And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

Zach 14: …..?
SAYS any of these “ quotes “ you are quoting and attributing to Zach 14: ?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

There is another way to look at some of this as well. It depends how far one is willing to think outside of the box, though.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Which would mean the 6th seal involves God's literal presence at some point the same way Genesis 19:24-25 involved His literal presence.

@Timtofly

He that sittith on the throne…IS God.
Gods throne IS as The LORD declared…

Isa 66:1: [1] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:

The Lamb is IN Heaven…
Rev 5
[5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

The men ON EARTH…are NOT before the throne LOOKING AT THE FACE OF GOD.

The men ON EARTH are pleading that GOD WILL NOT SEE THEM….IF the rocks WILL COVER THEM!

God IS ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEENG….And does require His “PHYSICAL PRESENCE” to SEE ALL THINGS.

Even “HUMAN men” with modern technology…CAN be physically IN one nation (the USA) …. And SEE “real time” people and events that are occurring in a foreign nation (Israel)….

Gods Throne IS Heaven.
Heaven and Earth are two Separate Distinct “WORLDS”… as Jesus REVEALED…WHEN Jesus “Journeyed AND VISITED EARTH”….was “Physically Present ON Earth”….THIS World…EARTH…the habitat of Humans.

John 18:
[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Nothing IN Scripture Declares …. The Lamb of God IS ON EARTH, “while He is IN Heaven Opening the 7 Seals.”

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[tailgator]

IMO, a better passage that fit with what is going on per the tares being removed might be the following, which, BTW, sounds similar to the sheep and goats judgment, and may even be meaning it. Especially verse 38.

Ezekiel 20:33 ¶As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

There are several passages showing the tares being consumed in scripture.Scriptire shows the entire kingdom being consumed.But the wheat in the kingdom is not consumed. Here are a couple passages where the tares are burned.After the tares are burned,the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.



Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

Isaiah 13
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isaiah 14
31 Wail, O gate! Cry out, O city! Melt away, all you Philistines! For a cloud of smoke comes from the north, and there are no stragglers in its ranks.

32 What answer will be given to the envoys of that nation? “The LORD has founded Zion, where His afflicted people will find refuge.”


This is a description of the kingdom that is to be consumed at the Lords coming.All the sinners in this kingdom and everyone who does not belong to Christ are burned up.The entire kingdom is consumed.Then this kingdom is given to the saints for an everlasting possession as God had promised Abraham.


Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.




Mathew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.






I read the news in this kingdom daily.Several.of the horns have called for a confederation to stand against the king of Babylon(the little horn) because of his wrath upon the Philistines and Lebanon.The little horn itself has mentioned putting implantable microchips in all of its citizens.I keep an eye on it to change the laws for this purpose.I believe it will take place within a years time

 

[Timtofly]

Isa 66:
[1]Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?




Zach 14:
??

Zach 14: mentions the Lamb? Where?
Zech 14: mentions the 6th Seal? Where?



Zach 14: …..?
SAYS any of these “ quotes “ you are quoting and attributing to Zach 14: ?

Glory to God,
Taken

The earth is the base of the throne. That is what footstool means.

The Second Coming involves the mount of Olives, the baptism of fire, and all the angels. Where is the term Second Coming ever found in Scripture? Are you going to say there is no Second Coming, because no Scripture has those exact words?

If you cannot figure out that Jesus is the Lamb of God, who is the Lamb?