Offenders in the kingdom

[grafted branch]

When scripture says something like "the kingdom of heaven is likened to" and gives an example, the KoH is not the state of things at first but is the end result.

In scripture the KoH has no sinners or offenders.

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The KoH is a future kingdom that sinners and the unsaved shall not be able to enter.

What about a verse such as Colossians 1:13?

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Before I was saved I was physically living among sinners and offenders. Now that I’m saved, I’m still physically living among sinners and offenders yet I’m translated into the Sons kingdom while the sinners and offenders are not translated into Sons kingdom.

In the parable of the tares, the angels gather both out of the kingdom, the tares/offenders and the wheat. Tares are burned and wheat is put in the barn.

Do you currently have two different kingdoms happening side by side, with believers being in both kingdoms while unbelievers only being in the kingdom that’s not the Sons?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I have a question, how did those that offend and do iniquity get into the kingdom? Is it possible to be born of water and Spirit and not be saved?

When the last trumpet sounds, his elect are raptured/ resurrected and at this time several things happen:
1. "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets"... ( Rev. 10:7)
2. >>> " ...The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” ( Rev. 11:15)
3. They worshiped God, (vs. 16)
4. “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, (vs. 17)
5. Your wrath has come, (vs. 18)
6. the time of the dead, that they should be judged, (vs. 18)
7. reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, (vs. 18)
8. destroy those who destroy the earth.”
( vs.18)
9. The temple of God was opened in heaven, ( vs. 19)
10. lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. (vs. 19)

So, #2 is your answer. At that moment, the entire world has become His Kingdom, ( not prior to that, since Satan & Antichrist ruled). So now, Jesus begins His reign first by transforming us then _ in His wrath ( which exists in the 7 Bowls and are now released), destroys His enemies.

> Remember, in the Lord's prayer to our Father, we have been praying for this for two thousand years: "...on earth as it is in heaven"

 

[grafted branch]

When the last trumpet sounds, his elect are raptured/ resurrected and at this time several things happen:
1. "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets"... ( Rev. 10:7)
2. >>> " ...The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” ( Rev. 11:15)
3. They worshiped God, (vs. 16)
4. “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, (vs. 17)
5. Your wrath has come, (vs. 18)
6. the time of the dead, that they should be judged, (vs. 18)
7. reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, (vs. 18)
8. destroy those who destroy the earth.”
( vs.18)
9. The temple of God was opened in heaven, ( vs. 19)
10. lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. (vs. 19)

So, #2 is your answer. At that moment, the entire world has become His Kingdom, ( not prior to that, since Satan & Antichrist ruled). So now, Jesus begins His reign first by transforming us then _ in His wrath ( which exists in the 7 Bowls, which are now released), destroys His enemies.

Ok, in the parable of the tares the Son of man sows the good seed in His field then the devil sows the tares in His field.

Why is the field (world) described as belonging to the Son of man and not the devil in the parable?

 

[Timtofly]

The rest of the dead which are not gathered with the first fruits are gathered after the 1000 years are finished.As it is written in revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished"

So the regular harvest are dead souls from the last 6,000 years waiting in sheol?

 

[Behold]

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Here is the answer..

"Jesus comes in Flaming fire taking Vengeance upon all those who do not = OBEY the Gospel".


A.) To OBEY the Gospel.........is to Believe it.

To not "obey it" is to be this..

John 3:36

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ok, in the parable of the tares the Son of man sows the good seed in His field then the devil sows the tares in His field.

Why is the field (world) described as belonging to the Son of man and not the devil in the parable?

God created and owns everything. But throughout history, good and evil were prevalent and Satan and His demons were allowed to do their biddinĝ. His principalities ruled over certain areas of the world. Back then his throne was in Pergamos (present day province of Turkey). Where we see false religions and depressed cultures, fascism, communism, etc., Satan dominantly rules those areas: Russia, China, India, all Islamic nations, many nations in Africa. In the western nations, not so dominant, but still the world system, Babylon was generated by him and it spread everywhere. We all fornicated with that Harlot. Still the gospel has penetrated the world. So good has spread, but so has evil. Good and evil are about to separate.
John 16:11: Jesus calls Satan the "ruler of this world" ... until He returns.

It is difficult to grasp sometimes. God is sovereign, yet allows Satan to do his thing. But as we saw in Job, Satan cannot do anything unless he has God's permission. So evil was necessary. It was in the plan. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was in the Garden before Adam and Eve sinned. He put it there, knowing they would disobey. But it was the only way we could appreciate and know what good is. It wasn't just the tree of knowledge of evil, but good as well.
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
Gen. 3:22

 

[grafted branch]

Here is the answer..

"Jesus comes in Flaming fire taking Vengeance upon all those who do not = OBEY the Gospel".


A.) To OBEY the Gospel.........is to Believe it.

To not "obey it" is to be this..

John 3:36

How did they get into the kingdom in the first place? John 3:5 says you must be born again else you can’t enter the kingdom.
Is it possible to be born again and not believe or obey?

 

[grafted branch]

God created and owns everything. But throughout history, good and evil were prevalent and Satan and His demons were allowed to do their biddinĝ. His principalities ruled over certain areas of the world.

Alright, so Satan ruling certain areas of the world could be viewed as the kingdom of Satan. The parable of the tares is about the kingdom of heaven as stated in Matthew 13:24. The area in the world that belongs to Jesus is where He sows and Satan sows in the parable.

What area in the world got sowed that was then allowed for both the wheat and tares to grow together in?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Alright, so Satan ruling certain areas of the world could be viewed as the kingdom of Satan. The parable of the tares is about the kingdom of heaven as stated in Matthew 13:24. The area in the world that belongs to Jesus is where He sows and Satan sows in the parable.

What area in the world got sowed that was then allowed for both the wheat and tares to grow together in?

Jesus told Pilot, My kingdom is not of the world, it is the kingdom of Heaven, a spiritual one, which we are a part of. But as I said, it will include the earth when He returns - "... on earth as it is in heaven".
So Jesus sows everywhere, the gospel has been preached to every nation and Tribe - just about! "the fullness of the Gentiles"(Romans 11:25) is almost complete - "and then the end will come" ( Matt. 24:14)

 

[Behold]

How did they get into the kingdom in the first place? John 3:5 says you must be born again else you can’t enter the kingdom.
Is it possible to be born again and not believe or obey?

Jesus said........."The Kingdom of God is within you"... And that is HIM, as "Christ in you, the hope of Glory".. "Glory" is Heaven.

Jesus said "The Kingdom of God is : Romans 14:7"

 

[grafted branch]

Jesus told Pilot, My kingdom is not of the world, it is the kingdom of Heaven, a spiritual one, which we are a part of. But as I said, it will include the earth when He returns - "... on earth as it is in heaven".
So Jesus sows everywhere, the gospel has been preached to every nation and Tribe - just about! "the fullness of the Gentiles"(Romans 11:25) is almost complete - "and then the end will come" ( Matt. 24:14)

Jesus sows on this planet, not in heaven, which is why the parable describes the field as the world.

In Matthew 13:37 the word “sowing” <4687> is a present tense verb, so we know the Son of man was sowing when He spoke those words.

This means there was a physical place on earth that was considered His field at that time. I say that place was the earthly Jerusalem.

Do you see the entire world not being His field? If so how can that be when the parable specifically says the field is both His and the world?

 

[grafted branch]

Jesus said........."The Kingdom of God is within you"... And that is HIM, as "Christ in you, the hope of Glory".. "Glory" is Heaven.

Jesus said "The Kingdom of God is : Romans 14:7"

So is it then possible to loose your salvation?

 

[Behold]

So is it then possible to loose your salvation?

Jesus is Salvation.

So, once a person has given their faith in Christ = to God, then God takes your faith.. .and gives you.... forgiveness of sin.. and then now being made sinless... GOD joins Himself to you..... and that is "Spiritual UNION" with Eternal God..

This places you "IN CHRIST"..... as a BORN.....again......."NEW Creation"....

Now, you are "seated in heavenly places" "In Christ"", and "Christ in you , the Hope of Glory" is who you have become on Earth, as a CHRISTian.

Jesus is Eternal life.
Eternal Life, is not Temporary.

So, when you have "CHRIST IN YOU" .. you have become born again as..."ONE with God".. and that is as Eternal a Salvation as God is God.

There is no Losing RESTORED Spiritual Union with God, because this is gained by The Cross of Christ, and maintained eternally by Jesus Himself.

Being now "IN CHRIST".... born.. .again........is ETERNAL LIFE.

Its DONE.

Welcome to : SALVATION

 

[grafted branch]

Jesus is Salvation.

So, once a person has given their faith in Christ = to God, then God takes your faith.. .and gives you.... forgiveness of sin.. and then now being made sinless... GOD joins Himself to you..... and that is "Spiritual UNION" with Eternal God..

This places you "IN CHRIST"..... as a BORN.....again......."NEW Creation"....

Now, you are "seated in heavenly places" "In Christ"", and "Christ in you , the Hope of Glory" is who you have become on Earth, as a CHRISTian.

Jesus is Eternal life.
Eternal Life, is not Temporary.

So, when you have "CHRIST IN YOU" .. you have become born again as..."ONE with God".. and that is as Eternal a Salvation as God is God.

There is no Losing RESTORED Spiritual Union with God, because this is gained by The Cross of Christ, and maintained eternally by Jesus Himself.

Being now "IN CHRIST".... born.. .again........is ETERNAL LIFE.

Its DONE.

Welcome to : SALVATION

Ok, I agree, once saved always saved.

We still have the problem of how the offenders get into the kingdom when a person has to be saved the enter the kingdom in the first place.

There is a solution to this, those who got into the kingdom did so before the new covenant came into force, prior to when Jesus spoke the words of John 3:5. Only those who are born again in the new covenant can now enter the kingdom.

Would you agree with me or do you see another way offenders get into the kingdom?

 

[tailgator]

So the regular harvest are dead souls from the last 6,000 years waiting in sheol?

There are many of the last that will be first and the first last.

 

[Behold]

Would you agree with me or do you see another way offenders get into the kingdom?

The KOG is a spiritual Kingdom, so you have to be born again spiritually to enter it.

Its this.>>"translated from....Darkness....TO Light".

What is that LIGHT???

its this..>>>"GOD exists IN LIGHT", and "Jesus is the LIGHT of the WORLD".. .so, to be born again into God, is to become a "Child of the LIGHT"

That's a born again.....CHRISTian.

 

[grafted branch]

The KOG is a spiritual Kingdom, so you have to be born again spiritually to enter it.

Its this.>>"translated from....Darkness....TO Light".

What is that LIGHT???

its this..>>>"GOD exists IN LIGHT", and "Jesus is the LIGHT of the WORLD".. .so, to be born again into God, is to become a "Child of the LIGHT"

That's a born again.....CHRISTian.

Yea well, in Matthew 13:41 the Son of man sends His angels to gather out of His kingdom all that offend and do iniquity. The offenders are then cast into the furnace.

Do you think it’s the born again that are removed from the kingdom and cast into the furnace?

 

[Behold]

Yea well, in Matthew 13:41 the Son of man sends His angels to gather out of His kingdom all that offend and do iniquity. The offenders are then cast into the furnace.

Being a sinner is not the "offense" that sends you to Hell , the 2nd Death, or Eternal Damnation.

What is the offense that keeps you out of heaven // KOG?

A.) Dying in Unbelief, having never trusted in Christ.

See that "SIN"?

That is the "unpardonable sin"......and there "remains no more sacrifice" for that "Willful" sin.

 

[grafted branch]

Being a sinner is not the "offense" that sends you to Hell , the 2nd Death, or Eternal Damnation.

What is the offense that keeps you out of heaven // KOG?

A.) Dying in Unbelief, having never trusted in Christ.

See that "SIN"?

That is the "unpardonable sin"......and there "remains no more sacrifice" for that "Willful" sin.

So the question still remains unanswered then, how did the offenders get into the kingdom?

 

[Behold]

So the question still remains unanswered then, how did the offenders get into the kingdom?

Well, in the OT, there was no Cross of Christ, so, you have "Abraham's Bosom."
This is the "Paradise" that Jesus is referring to when He said....to the dying Thief..."TODAY, you will be with me in Paradise".

Where is that?

That is 1 Peter 3:9