Offenders in the kingdom

[grafted branch]

There will be in this world righteous and wicked when Jesus returns. He establishes His kingdom on this earth, and removes the wicked.

There is more than one kind of kingdom.

Much love!

That would mean that currently nobody is in the kingdom right? And when Jesus returns He allows everyone into His kingdom before sending the angels out to get rid of the tares, right?

Why doesn’t Jesus just send the angels first to get rid of the tares then established His kingdom?

 

[tailgator]

Ok, then Jesus sowed the seed in His kingdom already along with Satan sowing the tares.


How do you come to this conclusion if Jesus and Satan have already sowed their seeds?

Jesus was sowing seed 2000 years ago.
That is what he was doing in the land of Israel preaching the gospel .

As of today there are wheat and tares growing together in the same land he was sowing seed.Jesus said let them grow together till the harvest .

 

[Davidpt]

Jesus was sowing seed 2000 years ago.
That is what he was doing in the land of Israel preaching the gospel .

As of today there are wheat and tares growing together in the same land he was sowing seed.Jesus said let them grow together till the harvest .

Since you appear to be applying this locally rather than globally, who in the land right now would be meaning the wheat and who would be meaning the tares?

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world ; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

That sounds global to me not local.

 

[marks]

That would mean that currently nobody is in the kingdom right? And when Jesus returns He allows everyone into His kingdom before sending the angels out to get rid of the tares, right?

Why doesn’t Jesus just send the angels first to get rid of the tares then established His kingdom?

The kingdom that Jesus will establish when He comes to the earth is not yet established.

Why? Because of the effect it would have on the true plants.

Much love!

 

[grafted branch]

As of today there are wheat and tares growing together in the same land he was sowing seed.Jesus said let them grow together till the harvest .

Ok, He was sowing seed in His field.

Here’s what you said in post #18

When the promised land is given to Christ ,then all the weeds in that kingdom are burned up.

When did or will Jesus loose His field he’s sowing the seeds in? He has to loose it before it can be given back to Him, right?

 

[grafted branch]

The kingdom that Jesus will establish when He comes to the earth is not yet established.

Why? Because of the effect it would have on the true plants.

Much love!

Let me ask you this, currently, has anyone entered into the kingdom in any way, shape,or form?

 

[marks]

Let me ask you this, currently, has anyone entered into the kingdom in any way, shape,or form?

Let's be clear, the millennial kingdom is the kingdom being addressed, and that kingdom has not been yet established, so then, no, no one is living in the millennial kingdom.

Much love!

 

[grafted branch]

Let's be clear, the millennial kingdom is the kingdom being addressed, and that kingdom has not been yet established, so then, no, no one is living in the millennial kingdom.

Much love!

Ok, in the parable of the tares it says “ the kingdom of heaven is …” I want to confirm you think the kingdom of heaven is the millennial kingdom. I had a conversation with someone on this forum a few days ago who boldly told me there are no Premils who will deny we have come to the kingdom of heaven in some kind of way.

If the parable of the tares is only talking about the millennial kingdom and it is not yet established then I would think you also don’t see anyone coming to the kingdom of heaven either.

Can you clarify for me has the kingdom of heaven been established yet, at least in a spiritual manner? Hebrews 12:22 says we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem which would seem to be in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[tailgator]

Since you appear to be applying this locally rather than globally, who in the land right now would be meaning the wheat and who would be meaning the tares?

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world ; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

That sounds global to me not local.

If it was the whole world then the rest of the dead wouldn't have to wait another 1000 years

Revelation 20
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


They wouldn't have to wait till the 1000 years were finished before they would be judged .They would have been gathered by the reapers before the millinium

 

[marks]

Ok, in the parable of the tares it says “ the kingdom of heaven is …” I want to confirm you think the kingdom of heaven is the millennial kingdom. I had a conversation with someone on this forum a few days ago who boldly told me there are no Premils who will deny we have come to the kingdom of heaven in some kind of way.

If the parable of the tares is only talking about the millennial kingdom and it is not yet established then I would think you also don’t see anyone coming to the kingdom of heaven either.

Can you clarify for me has the kingdom of heaven been established yet, at least in a spiritual manner? Hebrews 12:22 says we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem which would seem to be in the kingdom of heaven.

Colossians 1:12-13 KJV
12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Maybe the easiest way to sort this out for yourself would be to look at all the places that kingdom appears related to God/Jesus.

I see a spiritual kingdome comprised of all who believe, and a temporal kingdom that will exist when Jesus returns.

Much love!

 

[tailgator]

Ok, He was sowing seed in His field.

Here’s what you said in post #18

When did or will Jesus loose His field he’s sowing the seeds in? He has to loose it before it can be given back to Him, right?

Mark 12:7
But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’



The husbandmen are claiming it as their own at the moment .Or rather the beast.

 

[tailgator]

Let me ask you this, currently, has anyone entered into the kingdom in any way, shape,or form?

Let me ask you.

Which kingdom under heaven is given to the saints after the beast is cast into the fire?

Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[grafted branch]

Colossians 1:12-13 KJV
12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Maybe the easiest way to sort this out for yourself would be to look at all the places that kingdom appears related to God/Jesus.

I see a spiritual kingdome comprised of all who believe, and a temporal kingdom that will exist when Jesus returns.

Much love!

Well, I do personally think the kingdom has been established and that only people who are born again can enter into it. However if there are currently offenders in that kingdom then claiming the offenders got into the kingdom because the kingdom wasn’t established yet doesn’t make sense.

 

[grafted branch]

Let me ask you.

Which kingdom under heaven is given to the saints after the beast is cast into the fire?

Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

That would be the kingdom of heaven.

 

[quietthinker]

So, how do those that offend get into the kingdom?

They don't. The language is a literary exercise. Jesus is making a point. Get the point, don't press the language beyond its intent.
It's like saying, 'it's raining cats and dogs'.

 

[grafted branch]

They don't. The language is a literary exercise. Jesus is making a point. Get the point, don't press the language beyond its intent.
It's like saying, 'it's raining cats and dogs'.

In the parable of the tares the angels gather out of the kingdom all that offend and do iniquity and cast them into the fire. Are you saying this isn’t going to happen or are you saying the angels gather the tares but the tares aren’t in the kingdom?

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus was sowing seed 2000 years ago.
That is what he was doing in the land of Israel preaching the gospel .

As of today there are wheat and tares growing together in the same land he was sowing seed.Jesus said let them grow together till the harvest .

How can you be pre-mil, if you claim Matthew 13 was about the first century? The final harvest are those who inhabit the Millennial Kingdom on the earth.

Jesus will sow the wheat after the Second Coming. Only those alive on the earth after the Second Coming can be considered either wheat or tares. This is not about the church, as the church was removed prior to the wheat and tares being sown.

You seem to be in agreement with preterist and full preterist that this harvest only pertained to those Jews living in the first century. This is not an ongoing sowing and reaping. This is only involving one generation or two at the most. Seeds do not have multiple generations much less dozens of generations. Each seed dies and produces only one result, even in a parable.

This is not even about Adam's offspring being born as sinners generation after generation. This is about Jesus changing individuals by personally speaking and conversing with these people. And this is taking place while Satan is personally lobbying and deceiving individuals in opposition to Jesus.

 

[Davidpt]

Ok, in the parable of the tares it says “ the kingdom of heaven is …” I want to confirm you think the kingdom of heaven is the millennial kingdom. I had a conversation with someone on this forum a few days ago who boldly told me there are no Premils who will deny we have come to the kingdom of heaven in some kind of way.

If the parable of the tares is only talking about the millennial kingdom and it is not yet established then I would think you also don’t see anyone coming to the kingdom of heaven either.

Can you clarify for me has the kingdom of heaven been established yet, at least in a spiritual manner? Hebrews 12:22 says we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem which would seem to be in the kingdom of heaven.

In my view the only way the tares could be involving the millennial reign is if Amil is the correct position. It is paralleling their proposed millennial reign, not Premils proposed millennial reign. The sowing only pertains to this age and not the next age as well.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;


Premils typically take this to mean the last day of this present age just like Amils typically do. Then they(Premils) take the millennium to mean it follows the last day of this age. IOW, once the millennium begins, everything pertaining to Matthew 13:39-41 is already in the past and entirely fulfilled.

We have to keep in mind the subject is His kingdom and that not everyone is in His kingdom. Atheists certainly aren't, nor are unbelieving Jews, as a few examples. Keeping in mind, if Premil is true there have to be some unsaved still remaining alive on the planet after Jesus returns if there is a rebellion after the millennium. But they would be living outside of the now literally materialized kingdom not within it. Meaning once Jesus returns. Surely the kingdom will be one, one can behold with the naked eye at that point, thus literally materialized.

 

[quietthinker]

In the parable of the tares the angels gather out of the kingdom all that offend and do iniquity and cast them into the fire. Are you saying this isn’t going to happen or are you saying the angels gather the tares but the tares aren’t in the kingdom?

The tares aren't in the Kingdom.
When Jesus returns in the clouds for all to see, his people will be caught up in the clouds to meet him.
Those who are not his people (tares).....their hearts will fail for fear. They will not be able to countenance the glory of the unconstrained character of God.....which they have rejected.

 

[tailgator]

Well, I do personally think the kingdom has been established and that only people who are born again can enter into it. However if there are currently offenders in that kingdom then claiming the offenders got into the kingdom because the kingdom wasn’t established yet doesn’t make sense.

So when do you say the 7th Trump was blown?
What year are you saying the kingdom of this world became Christs,?


Revelation 11
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”