Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.
- Thread starter Stewardofthemystery
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are acting like a Pretribber now: wild claims and no actual biblical substance. Maybe this is Premil trait, as you all belong to the same camp. Hmmmm!
Where in Scripture does it teach that "God had originally intended for Adam to live" for "1,000 LITERAL Years"?
Last edited:
I'm calling out the duplicity of your reasoning. You insist on a literal wooden period of a "thousand years" in Revelation (in the most highly-figurative book in Scripture) yet have no difficulties spiritualizing away the "one hour" of the beast's reign in the same book and in a similar context. This is classic Premillennialism - zero corroboration, double standards and contradictory statements.
Last edited:
Do you believe that Scripture supports Scripture on all the main tenets/truths?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Yo are very very wrong in what you said to me.
Scripture is specific on this in Revelation = those who refused the Mark of the Beast were martyred
False accusation = for i NEVER said this
The LORD is made this very CLEAR in Revelation = they are martyred BEFORE the literal 1,000 Years
ABSOLUTELY TRUE = 100% TRUTH
100% FALSE - adding to God's words what HE never said = Read Proverbs 30:5-6
The LORD says that the martyrs are given LIFE from their death, which is the First Resurrection = When the 1,000 Years BEGINS
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.
But after these things he must be released for a little while.
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You are definitely under pressure now dealing with Christian who know their Bible, instead of Prefibbers who make it up as they go. Address the questions you are ducking around, if you can.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
- Where in Scripture does it teach that "God had originally intended for Adam to live" for "1,000 LITERAL Years"?
- The beast reigns with 10 kings for 1 hour in Revelation. Is that a literal 60 minutes?
Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?
Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."
This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."
Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
ALL LITERAL and by GOD"s Intentions and Will are not subject to an affirmation by man.
These scriptures are NON-Corrobative when being SPECIFIC to the literal 1,000 Years mentioned in Genesis and Revelation.
REMEBER that the first Adam sinned and fell short of the LITERAL 1,000 Years by 70 years.
The Second Adam, who is the LORD, Completed the missing 70 Years for all of the descendants of the first Adam.
Daniel 9:24
GOSPEL
Hebrews
1 Corinthians chapter 15
1 Thess 4:13-18
1 John 3:1-3
Revelation
Last edited:
LOL. More avoidance.
Welcome to Pretrib. This is what they do. They make it up as they go. Your doctrines falls at the first hurdle.
This shows the absurdity of your doctrine. It is nonsensical. You cannot even discern between figurative and literal language. That is obviously why you are a Premil. Most objective Bible students would agree that these are figurative terms.
The term "a thousand" is used in most languages in a general figurative sense to represent a large number or a large indefinite period. Certain common numbers are frequently used in Scripture as valuable symbols to represent particular divine truths or ideas; a thousand and ten thousand are two such numbers. They are employed as familiar figures to impress deep spiritual principles in a distinctly comprehendible and identifiable way. It is not necessarily the exact numerical size of the figure outlined that is important but the spiritual idea that it represents. In fact, English dictionaries recognize the indefinite nature of a thousand defining it variously as a very large number or a great number or amount. This use is very common in our daily language.
One and a thousand are brought together in a metaphorical sense in Psalm 84:9-10 to represent a similar illustrative thought as that of Deuteronomy 32:30. Using a comparable idea, although applying it to a specific measure of time, we learn, “Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.”
Comparing ‘one’ to ‘a thousand’ is common in Scripture; however, it is not simply a concept that is narrowly restricted to the subject of time, or exact time at that. This figurative statement in essence asserts that a day in the Lord’s presence is more blessed than untold ordinary ones outside of such. It in no way indicates that one (twenty-four hour) day in God’s presence exactly represents one thousand days elsewhere, such a limit would be an unfair restriction upon the meaning intended. Such a literal interpretation is at clear variance with the undoubted general usage of the phrase in Scripture and the specific import of the reading under analysis.
The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 to denote the greatness of God’s providence, saying, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.”
Does Christ only own the cattle on one thousand hills or does he own them all? Of course there is no way that this passage suggests that Christ only owns the cattle on one thousand hills. Rather, He owns every beast on every hill, thus revealing His omnipotence. The statement reference the “thousand hills” is preceded y the introductory comment: “For every beast of the forest is mine.” This is simply presented in such a way as to express the unfathomable authority and power of the living God. It beautifully correlates with the truth expressed in 1 Corinthians 10:28, which states, “the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.”
The term “a thousand” is thus used to in some way express the nature and awesome power of Almighty God. The phrase is used to portray the Sovereignty of God and His supreme kingship over all creation. We must clearly acknowledge that the figure ‘a thousand’ is consistently and symbolically employed, throughout the Word of God, to denote an unfathomable amount or a vast period.
Even the figurative every-day statement ‘one in a thousand’ has emanated from the fountainhead of Scripture. It is found in Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 where Solomon laments, “one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.”
Solomon laments over the fact that he barely found any upright man in his travels. They were the exception rather than the rule. The thought here intended is that the man under consideration is of a particular choice character, being, as it where, the pick-of-the-bunch. The usage of the numbers one and a thousand is thus employed to represent a particular truth rather than specifically describing an accurate numerical equation.
In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, “If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness.” The same two common numbers are used here in the form of a contrast to simply portray the picture of a special vessel. Again, it is not the numbers that are important but the idea they represent.
As we have already discovered in our studies, the same kind of function is repeatedly afforded to the use of the term ‘ten thousand’ as is ‘a thousand’ in Scripture. It is often used in the same context and in the same way as a symbol to represent an immense figure. Thus, the Song of Solomon 5:10 declares, “My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.”
Ten thousand is here used to, in some way, portray the deep-rooted emotions that a man feels towards his sweetheart. The usage of the number ‘ten thousand’ thus indicates the idea of the deep affection of the man rather than specifically describing an exact numerical computation.
The same idea is presented in 2 Samuel 18:2-3 where David is seen preparing for battle. He tells the people, “I will surely go forth with you myself also.” To which the people responded, “Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth ten thousand of us: therefore now it is better that thou succour us out of the city.”
Jesus employs the number ten thousand as a general figure in Luke 14:31 to relate the necessity of wisdom, asking, “what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with TWENTY THOUSAND?”
The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, “I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.”
This passage is contrasting the infinite knowledge of God to the finite knowledge of God. This language is stating the enormous depth of God's understanding rather than limiting God to the capacity to only answer a thousand questions.
The same idea is intended in Isaiah 60:21-22, where the prophet instructs, in relation to the New Earth, “Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.”
This passage is expressed in such a manner to in some way describe the great standing, wealth and supernatural power that is found in them that are God’s. God magnifies them in such a manner that the world cannot remotely comprehend. The expressions thus indicate magnitude:
A little one = a thousand
A small one = a strong nation
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Post #632 UP dated in TRUTH
You are following the denialism of the false doctrine of pre-trib rapture.
De Nile is in Egypt from where God's People are called out of - Exodus and Matthew 2:13-15
Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.”
When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”
- Where in Scripture does it teach that "God had originally intended for Adam to live" for "1,000 LITERAL Years"?
- The beast reigns with 10 kings for 1 hour in Revelation. Is that a literal 60 minutes?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
SCRIPTURE FULFILLED and remember that the pharisees were always trying to have JESUS prove Himself to them.
Don't be like the pharisees.
Then Samson said, “With a donkey’s jawbone I have made donkeys of them. With a donkey’s jawbone I have killed a thousand men.”
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Later, David attacked and defeated the Philistines. He captured their town of Gath and the nearby villages.
2 David also defeated the Moabites, and so they had to accept him as their ruler and pay taxes to him.
3 While King Hadadezer of Zobah was trying to gain control of the territory near the Euphrates River, David met him in battle at Hamath and defeated him. 4 David captured 1,000 chariots, 7,000 chariot drivers, and 20,000 soldiers. And he crippled all but 100 of the horses.
5 When troops from the Syrian kingdom of Damascus came to help Hadadezer, David killed 22,000 of them. 6 Then David stationed some of his troops in Damascus, and the people there had to accept David as their ruler and pay taxes to him.
Let us take the phrase “a thousand years.” There is a big difference between “a thousand years” (which Scriptures states) and "one thousand years" (as you keep stating). The number 'one' is not included in the narrative, you must insert it in. Rather it is the more general thousand.
The figure a “thousand years” is employed ten times in Scripture – twice in the Old Testament and eight times in the New Testament. Significantly, of the eight mentions in the New, six are found in the same book of the Bible – Revelation. And of even greater note, all are disproportionately found together within the same chapter – the one currently under examination – Revelation 20. The two other New Testament references are found in the book of 2 Peter 3. In all the references, they indicate a large unspecific indefinite time period.
The two Old Testament passages are found in Psalm 90 and Ecclesiastes 6. And in both references the figure ‘a thousand years’ is used in a symbolic or figurative sense to denote an indefinite time-span. The first mention is in Psalm 90:3-5, where we read, “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.”
This passage is often advanced by Premillennialists as proof of a literal physical future earthly millennium. Such people confidently advance it in such a way, as if it states, ‘For a thousand years in thy sight are but as tomorrow which is yet to come’. However, a careful reading of this inspired narrative reveals that it rather in stark contrast declares, “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past.” This passage therefore does not in the slightest allude to the future, never mind to some supposed impending earthly post Second Advent temporal period, but clearly to the past. This passage simply reveals profound truth about God and His infinite view of time rather than any misconceived earthly idea about a future millennium.
The thousand years are notably "as yesterday" rather than 'as tomorrow' or 'as a future period after Christ’s coming'.
A ‘thousand years’ is here used to describe God’s eternal view of time, which is in stark contrast to man’s limited understanding. This text teaches us that time is nothing with the Lord. God lives in eternity and His perspective of time far exceeds the finite mind of man. A ‘thousand years’ in this life is but a flash in the light of eternity. This reading goes on then to describe the solemn reality of the fleetingness of time and the brevity of life, saying, “we spend our years as a tale that is told” (v 9).
No wonder the Psalmist humbly prays to God, “teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom” (Psalm 90:12).
In Ecclesiastes 6:3, 6-7 we find the second Old Testament reference to a thousand years. Here the term is simply used to represent an idea rather than outlining a specific measurable period of time. It reads, “If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he…Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place? All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.”
This text is not remotely suggesting that a person could actually live to be a thousand years multiplied by two (or 2,000 years), such is, and has always been since the Fall, a naturally impossibility. Rather, the text expresses a deep spiritual truth that even if someone lives to an incomprehensible age outside of Christ and hope, this life is completely meaningless. The term a 1000 multiplied by 2 therefore represents a hypothetically number, which spiritually impresses the important reality of the brevity and futility of carnal life. No man in Scripture, or since, has ever lived to the age of 2,000 years old.
Interestingly, the only place outside of Revelation 20 that the term a thousand years is mentioned in the New Testament is in 2 Peter 3. There, it is significantly used in an entirely figurative sense. In this chapter, Peter is specifically addressing the cynics who live in the last days that doubt the appearing of the Lord at His Second Advent and indeed harbour the foolish notion that He will not come at all. It is in this context that he addresses these misguided doubters, saying, “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (2 Peter 3:3-4).
Peter, however, says in response, “For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” (vv 5-9).
This familiar passage closely parallels the reading that we have just analyzed in Psalm 90, indicating the same spiritual truth – that God is not limited to time. Again, notably, the contrast between the number one and a thousand is employed to simply represent an important divine truth.
It is in this context that he addresses these misguided doubters. Peter says in response, “beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (v 8).
Peter thus outlines two distinct yet contrasting time equations in this passage for the sole purpose of expressing a deep spiritual truth. Notwithstanding, and not surprisingly, the Premillennialist are swift to selectively advance the first aspect of this calculation as supposed evidence that one of God’s heavenly days represents a thousand literal temporal earthly years. However, whilst they unquestionably address, and happily literalize, the first part of this calculation they are understandably careful to sidestep the second part of the sum. Evidently, such is because it doesn’t fit their flawed hyper-literalist mode of interpretation.
Significantly, this reading in no place suggests the day of the Lord lasts a literal 1,000 years. The Premillennialist forces that into the reading. In the above passage it simply indicates “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (v 8).
Those who take the aforementioned verses to support a future 1,000-year millennium of peace are faced with an insurmountable inconsistency when they examine the detail of the remainder of the chapter, and try and get it to fit their paradigm. 2 Peter 3:10-13 continues, “the day of the Lord will come (or arrive) as thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall ‘go or pass away, or perish’ with a great noise, and the elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be ‘burned up utterly or consumed wholly’. Seeing then that all these things shall be ‘dissolved, loosened or broke up’ … Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be ‘dissolved, melted or loosed’, and the elements shall ‘melt by being set on fire’?” Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
This passage is so clear, final and all-consummating that one wonders how anyone could remotely imagine that creation could survive such an all-consummating fiery event. One also wonders how the Holy Spirit could have possibly advanced more explicit language to indicate the idea of total devastation. Whatever way you look at this chapter there is absolutely no allowance made or possibility for a future post-Second coming millennial kingdom on this earth. Peter knows of no other coming of Christ other than that which eradicate the heavens, elements and the earth in one stupendous conflagration.
Nowhere else in Scripture does it teach that there will be a literal 1,000 years after the second coming that is sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted and war-ravaged. Neither the Old Testament prophets, Christ, Paul, Peter, Jude nor any other New Testament writer describes one.
The same applies to the Old Testament. John Metcalfe rightly says in relation to the Holy Spirit’s use of the phrase “a thousand” in the Old Testament, in a booklet ‘Premillennialism Exposed’, “One reads of a thousand hills, a thousand vines, a thousand Philistines, a thousand children of Bigvai, a thousand Ammonites, a thousand spears, a thousand camels, a thousand horses, a thousand chariots, a thousand judges, a thousand bullocks, a thousand rams, but never of a thousand years reign, no, not from Genesis to Malachi.”
And continues, “One can discover a thousand shields for a thousand Israelites, a thousand cubits and a thousand footmen to traverse them, a thousand talents and a thousand oxen to carry them, a thousand silver pieces and a thousand Edomites to covet them, a thousand baths and a thousand men to bathe in them, but what no one can find, no, not one of a thousand, is a thousand years reign at the end of time with the second coming of Christ preceding this millennial invention.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Holy Spirit Literal TRUTH and Corroborating Scriptural Evidence with Revelation chapter 20
Genesis chapter 5
This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters.
So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years/930 Years; and he died.
Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years/912 Years; and he died.
Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years(815 Years), and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years/905 Years; and he died.
Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years/840 Years , and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years/910 Years; and he died.
Similar threads
