Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[covenantee]

I think you lost track of the conversation. Remember, I pointed out what Paul said in Romans 9:4. The Adoption of Sons BELONGS to national Israel.

Those of Matthew 23:33 and John 8:44 belonged to national Israel.

Adopted sons guaranteed salvation.

In hell.

 

[rwb]

That's right. Paul's focus is on national Israel because God made a promise to national Israel that as yet remains unfulfilled.

What promise did God make to them (national Israel?) that He did not make to every nation of the earth? It cannot be the promised land of Cannan, because that promise was fulfilled completely when Joshua led the nation into Cannan, and the land was divided accordingly between the twelve tribes. Please prove from the Word of God because I am not interested in hearing your opinions.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Joshua 24:19
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

He didn't need to make His Name Holy again when it was already Holy.

How does your unholy god make your israel holy?

I see you didn't read Ezekiel 36, the Lord's prayer or Romans 2:24.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Those of Matthew 23:33 and John 8:44 belonged to national Israel.

Adopted sons guaranteed salvation.

In hell.

If you don't do the reading you won't understand.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What promise did God make to them (national Israel?) that He did not make to every nation of the earth?

Paul tells you in Romans 9:4

 

[covenantee]

I see you didn't read Ezekiel 36, the Lord's prayer or Romans 2:24.

I see that you don't understand anything that you read, rendering you incapable of answering the simplest question.

 

[covenantee]

If you don't do the reading you won't understand.

Jesus did the reading. He understood and understands.

Adopted sons guaranteed salvation.

In hell.

 

[rwb]

I see you didn't read Ezekiel 36, the Lord's prayer or Romans 2:24.

How do these passages prove God promised the nation of Israel something exclusively for them that He did not promise to every other nation of the world?

 

[rwb]

Paul tells you in Romans 9:4

What in this verse is exclusively to the nation of Israel?

Romans 9:4 (KJV) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

How does the following passage help you to understand to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, giving of the law and the service of God and the promises? If Paul believed that "national Israel" is to receive special promises other nations of the earth would not, why does he write, "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed" (Christ)? Aren't the children of the flesh (Israelites in unbelief) no different than Gentiles in unbelief?

Romans 9:6-8 (KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

If the promises of God in vs 4 are exclusively to "national Israel", why does Paul write that God might make known the riches of His glory and mercy through the promises "not of Jews only, but also of the Gentiles"?

Romans 9:21-24 (KJV) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

One last question, if the promises of God in vs 4 is exclusively to "national Israel" why does Paul write, though they are many, only a remnant shall be saved?

Romans 9:27 (KJV) Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

It's ignorance and attempting to force the Bible to prove your Zionist Dispensationalist doctrine that keeps you from understanding that Paul in these verses is proving the promises of God given first to Israel of Old are NOT, nor has it ever been limited exclusively to this entity you call "national Israel."

 

[rwb]

Paul tells you in Romans 9:4

You're trying to prove the nation of Israel after the first advent of Christ have not received every single promise given exclusively to the nation of Old. Paul does not help you prove this Zionist mindset.

Romans 3:1-3 (KJV) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

The great advantage to the Jew was before Christ, for unto them God gave His spoken utterances. And through them (Judah) the Messiah would come. Read all of Romans 3 because Paul, speaking to the church in Rome (Gentile & Jew alike) proves that though the nation of Old had great advantages, they would not nationally benefit from the Covenant promises of God. Though they first received the promises of God, they were no better than any other nation or people on earth, because all of mankind are under sin, and equally guilty before God

Romans 3:10-12 (KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

There is no boasting for the Jews because every man who is saved is justified by faith WITHOUT the law. That includes Gentiles of faith as well as Jews of faith together. Among both Jew and Gentile there shall only be the remnant saved according to grace through faith. That's why Paul writes that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy people of faith called, Christian.

Romans 3:27-31 (KJV) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I see that you don't understand anything that you read, rendering you incapable of answering the simplest question.

I already answered the question in the thread a couple of times. I chose not to answer this time because you are not willing or able to hear the answer. What do you want me to do? You didn't read the passages, which is why you don't understand.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus did the reading. He understood and understands.

What does he understand?

Adopted sons guaranteed salvation.

So what?

 

[CadyandZoe]

How do these passages prove God promised the nation of Israel something exclusively for them that He did not promise to every other nation of the world?

This is confusing because we have several conversations running at the same time. The passages I cited were not intended to address God's promise to Israel. The passages I cited were intended to address why Israel is a country again.

The prophets say that God will use Israel to vindicate his holy name.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You're trying to prove the nation of Israel after the first advent of Christ have not received every single promise given exclusively to the nation of Old.

No, that is not what I am trying to prove, although that is also true. God is not done with the nation of Israel, and Israel has not received every single promise given exclusively to the nation.

Paul does not help you prove this Zionist mindset.

I am not a Zionist. and you have not proved that I am.

Romans 3:1-3 (KJV) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

The verse you quoted, I have also quoted in support of my view. The apostle declares that even though some of the Jews did not believe, doesn't nullify God's promise to them as a people.

The great advantage to the Jew was before Christ, for unto them God gave His spoken utterances.

That was true during Paul's time.

And through them (Judah) the Messiah would come. Read all of Romans 3 because Paul, speaking to the church in Rome (Gentile & Jew alike) proves that though the nation of Old had great advantages, they would not nationally benefit from the Covenant promises of God.

I disagree because Paul argues against your view in Romans 11:11-12. Paul says, Yes, they will nationally benefit from the covenant promises of God.

Though they first received the promises of God, they were no better than any other nation or people on earth, because all of mankind are under sin, and equally guilty before God

It isn't a matter of being "better" that anyone else. God will act for his own sake and for his own purposes. (Ezekiel 36:22)

There is no boasting for the Jews because every man who is saved is justified by faith WITHOUT the law. That includes Gentiles of faith as well as Jews of faith together.

I agree.

Among both Jew and Gentile there shall only be the remnant saved according to grace through faith.

Although this is true, the term "remnant" always applies to the Jewish people.

That's why Paul writes that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy people of faith called, Christian.

I agree. But we aren't taking about who is a believer, Christian, saved, or anything like that. We are talking about the fact that God chose a race of people, made them a royal priesthood, a holy people, and a people for God's own possession. No other race is a chosen race; no other people is a holy people; no other family line was designated to serve as a royal priesthood. Only the line that came from Jacob qualifies under those attributes.

 

[Taken]

I’m amazed at how many cannot grasp this Truth. The first resurrection of the physically dead is to those who are in Christ.


Notice those who are of the first physical resurrection are called blessed and holy…

Revelation 20:4-6

King James Version

​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Also notice in verse 5 it says “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished”

This clearly states that not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time.

The dead in Christ rise FIRST as is written, they are the “blessed and holy” who are of the FIRST resurrection.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace

Agree…ALL are NOT resurrected (bodily raised at the same time).

ALL do NOT Confess Belief at the same time.

ALL do NOT Confess “the SAME” beliefs.

ALL do NOT physically bodily Die “during” Gods tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven.

ALL now and during Gods tribulations….
Now or Then, “Confess” their Beliefs.

ALL “WITH” the Lord God….Doesn’t not mean…”IN” Christ. (With and IN are two. Different things).

FEW / SOME (proportionally to ALL Humans),
Bodily Alive ARE Now…”WITH” the Lord God and He “WITH” them….which can AT ANY MOMENT “CHANGE”.

FEW / SOME (proportionally to ALL Humans),
Bodily Dead….Bodily Alive “ARE” …
WITH and IN the Lord God…and He WITH and IN them….Which “IS” that individuals “guarantee” to FOREVER, ETERNALLY, Be WITH the Lord God…and He WITH THEM.

THOSE…select FEW….(bodily dead, bodily alive)….ARE NOT “present” ON the face of the earth, during God tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven….THEY ARE forgiven, covered, cleansed, Saved, Quickened, Sanctified, and Raised up WHOLE…body, soul, spirit….BEFORE Gods tribulations and wrath ARE sent down from Heaven.
That is not “called” a resurrection, rather is called The Rapture, exclusive to and for the members of Christ’s Church to meet their Lord IN the air.

Offering for men to JOIN Christ’s Church (according to His Order and Way) has been Offered to Every earthly Human man for over 2,000 years. Individuals can willingly, freely “TRY” His offering…(called TASTING, without Commitment)….and then reject His Offering.
OR….EAT His Offering via their COMMITMENT….
TASTING…the Lord will be WITH that man.
Man SPIT out his Tasting…the Lord will no longer be WITH that individual.
EATING….the Lord will be IN and WITH that man for the duration of his physical bodily life.
ForEVER, the Lord God shall be “WITH” that individuals….restored/saved soul, quickened spirit…AND risen glorified body.

That which is OCCURRING During Gods tribulations and wrath sent from Heaven….IS NOT about Christ Gathering NEW MEMBERS FOR HIS CHURCH…which is no longer present ON Earth or open for new Membership….
Gods Order and WAY….of WHOM, WHEN, HOW, WHY He shall save souls, quicken spirits, raise body’s up glorified…..or judge and sentence souls and bodys of men Against Him is revealed IN Gods Word.

Glory to God,
Taken




TAKE His Offering or refuse it

 

[covenantee]

What does he understand?

More than you and I.

So what?

I agree.

Their adoption didn't save them from hell.

 

[covenantee]

I already answered the question in the thread a couple of times. I chose not to answer this time because you are not willing or able to hear the answer. What do you want me to do? You didn't read the passages, which is why you don't understand.

Evasion.

How does your unholy god make your israel holy?

I hadn't asked that question before, so you couldn't have answered it.

 

[covenantee]

I am not a Zionist. and you have not proved that I am.

Then why do you espouse zionist racism?

 

[rwb]

This is confusing because we have several conversations running at the same time. The passages I cited were not intended to address God's promise to Israel. The passages I cited were intended to address why Israel is a country again.

The prophets say that God will use Israel to vindicate his holy name.

What prophet says that God will use "national Israel" to vindicate His holy name? How does the fact that Israel became a nation again prove that they nationally will be blessed by God more so than any other peoples of the earth?

 

[rwb]

No, that is not what I am trying to prove, although that is also true. God is not done with the nation of Israel, and Israel has not received every single promise given exclusively to the nation.

Why do you single out the nation of Israel above every other nation of the earth? What promises of God has the nation of Israel not exclusively received?

I am not a Zionist. and you have not proved that I am.

If you believe that Israel exclusively is yet to be blessed by God, you are a Zionist! You are a Zionist Dispensationalist. Christian Zionism nor Dispensationalism is NOT the friend of Israelites in unbelief.

Zionist - a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel:

The verse you quoted, I have also quoted in support of my view. The apostle declares that even though some of the Jews did not believe, doesn't nullify God's promise to them as a people.

This is where you appear to veer off the deep end. God's everlasting/eternal Covenant promises have never been to an ungodly, reprobate people of the earth. The Covenant promise of God has always been to ALL people without distinction of ethnicity, who are of faith in Christ. The only promises to Israel of the flesh was the land of Cannan. That physical promise of land would have belonged to the nation forever IF they had not turned away from God to worship and serve the gods of this world.

That was true during Paul's time.

It was true BEFORE Paul's time, and after Christ it is still true to Israel of faith, as Paul was. Because there has always been a remnant according to election of grace.

I disagree because Paul argues against your view in Romans 11:11-12. Paul says, Yes, they will nationally benefit from the covenant promises of God.

No Paul does not! You imagine Paul argues against my view; however, you can only assume because you cannot prove what you allege. If Paul argues the nation of Israel will be beneficiaries of the Covenant promises of God, then ignore everything Paul says, because your doctrine forces him to contradict himself. Why would you believe anything Paul or Christ for that matter says if they contradict each other and themselves???

Where in this discourse does Paul say what you imagine?

Romans 11:11-12 (KJV) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:25-27 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

It isn't a matter of being "better" that anyone else. God will act for his own sake and for his own purposes. (Ezekiel 36:22)

Yes, God will! But not nationally, as you imagine, rather according to His grace through faith! Ezekiel is fulfilled and being fulfilled since the first advent of Christ coming to earth a man. If you're still looking for fulfillment of this prophecy, perhaps you too, like the pharisees of Old do not believe that Christ is the promised Messiah who was to come. You do deny that Christ, being God has come in the flesh! Perhaps this is what keeps you blinded from the truth.

Although this is true, the term "remnant" always applies to the Jewish people.

Your making distinctions between ethnic groups that Scripture does not.

We are talking about the fact that God chose a race of people, made them a royal priesthood, a holy people, and a people for God's own possession.

Yes, they are the "human race"! People from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue who believe have been chosen of God to be His Holy people through Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

No other race is a chosen race; no other people is a holy people; no other family line was designated to serve as a royal priesthood. Only the line that came from Jacob qualifies under those attributes.

Yes, I agree! The holy linage of God through the SEED (Christ) of Jacob are ALL from the human race chosen from before the foundation of the world to be saved through Him. Yes, that is the only lineage from the whole human race that shall be eternally saved.