No Condemnation For Those In Christ (Romans 8:1)

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Behold

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James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Look at your verse like this....

"To HIM">...... it is sin.

Not to God.

See that?

So, this verse is talking about getting under self inflicted condemnation... guilt tripping, so, to HIM that is what is happening.
"HIM" sees it as "sin"., and that is THEIR Condemnation.

God doesn't see it like that, but "HIM" does, and that is why millions of "HIMS" and "HERS" "confess it".

See "confession" is "how to remove the self condemnation". "How to get out of the guilt trip".

= Oh i know...(the confused believer thinks)......"I'll do what i always do.. .i'll confess it", and then i'll start to FEEL BETTER, and by Tomorrow afternoon, i wont even remember it.

See that reader?
That is all "confessing sin" does............nothing more.
Its a way of dealing with the CONSCIENCE, .. its a way of soothing it.........until you do it again... whatever it is.

So, the issue isn't the deed, the issue is not understanding How God sees it, so that by this revelation, you can see it the same way, and that is your FREEDOM, finally found.

Here it is..

"There is now no condemnation to those who are IN CHRIST".

"Where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".

"God hath made Jesus to be SIN....for US"... so that we can be free from sin and from Condemnation.

.................................."Behold, how does God see my sin," ?????????????????

A.) ON CHRIST, forever. Paid...in FULL...for ETERNITY.

See the CROSS of CHRIST for the update, in case you haven't realized it yet, Reader.
And if your Pope, Pastor, Bishop, Minister, or "other" can not explain to you what i just did, .. if they dont believe it, then find another church where the Minister, understands The Grace of God, as The Cross of Christ.
 
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Davy

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I know you have a lot of ideas in your mind that you are burning to share with everyone (for which you should really go make your own thread, not commandeer others' threads)...

Proverbs 18
2A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Again, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the OP?

Now... your real character is showing. And because of that silliness of words by you, I am now CONVINCED that you LEFT OUT COVERING 1 JOHN 1... ON PURPOSE!

I am totally against any idea that says we no longer need to repent and ask Christ forgiveness of future sin, which is an idea the OSAS crowd wrongly believes. There, I have made it easy for you.
 
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Davy

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LOL
Wow
Yeah, it makes sense now. You know the drill.

Proverbs 18
13He who answers a matter before he hears it—
this is folly and disgrace to him.

In your post #119, you made a FALSE QUOTE, saying I said the following WHEN I DID NOT!

"Sorry, Grace, you’ll be disappointed in me.
I never read the original post. I just decided to leave a comment concerning my perspective."


I never said that above quote in Italics.

And that you would bear that false witness against me, reveals even more of your EVIL CHARACTER, YOU CHARLATAN!
 

Davy

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Yeah, actually, I think you missed my entire point, because you didn't address it, and you really seem to be arguing against me as if I were OSAS, whereas I've made many threads against OSAS, and you ought to have understood from reading my OP that I am against OSAS,
No, I understood your OP pointing against OSAS. I only responded because I wondered why... you left out the 1 John 1 chapter which is the heart of what the true Christian is to do when they find theirself doing future sin. All you had to say in response was something like, "Oh yeah, that we need to follow like John said." But you instead jumped to childish conclusions and ran your smart mouth. So welcome to my IGNORE LIST.
 
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GracePeace

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Now... your real character is showing. And because of that silliness of words by you, I am now CONVINCED that you LEFT OUT COVERING 1 JOHN 1... ON PURPOSE!

I am totally against any idea that says we no longer need to repent and ask Christ forgiveness of future sin, which is an idea the OSAS crowd wrongly believes. There, I have made it easy for you.
Again, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the OP?
 

GracePeace

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No, I understood your OP pointing against OSAS. I only responded because I wondered why... you left out the 1 John 1 chapter which is the heart of what the true Christian is to do when they find theirself doing future sin. All you had to say in response was something like, "Oh yeah, that we need to follow like John said." But you instead jumped to childish conclusions and ran your smart mouth. So welcome to my IGNORE LIST.
Had you followed the conversation, you'd have read that I actually said part of remaining in Christ is being forgiven--but, again, the main point is that not all remain. Not all accept that reality, and that was the point I was making, which you never addressed. You are trying to change the topic, express your own thoughts (Proverbs 18:2)--as I said before, I'm not going to accept that.
 
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GracePeace

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In your post #119, you made a FALSE QUOTE, saying I said the following WHEN I DID NOT!

"Sorry, Grace, you’ll be disappointed in me.
I never read the original post. I just decided to leave a comment concerning my perspective."


I never said that above quote in Italics.

And that you would bear that false witness against me, reveals even more of your EVIL CHARACTER, YOU CHARLATAN!
Oops, that was something another user said. It got mixed up because I was in the middle of answering you when I went to make the response to his reply--but, yeah, you have nothing of substance to say, just lots of crackling noises.

Ecclesiastes 7
6A fool's laughter is quickly gone, like thorns crackling in a fire. This also is meaningless.
 

GracePeace

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No, I understood your OP pointing against OSAS. I only responded because I wondered why... you left out the 1 John 1 chapter which is the heart of what the true Christian is to do when they find theirself doing future sin. All you had to say in response was something like, "Oh yeah, that we need to follow like John said." But you instead jumped to childish conclusions and ran your smart mouth. So welcome to my IGNORE LIST.
You didn't respond to the point of the OP, so it's not of any interest to me in this thread.
 

GracePeace

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Look at your verse like this....

"To HIM">...... it is sin.

Not to God.

See that?
Nope.

Luke 12
47And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of [ag]a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
 

Behold

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Nope.

Luke 12
47And that slave who knew his master’s will

Christians are not "slaves".

Christians are "Sons / Daughters" of God.

Christians are..

"Heirs of God"
"Joint Heirs with Jesus"
"Seated in Heavenly Places "IN CHRIST"

CHRISTians, are "The Temple of the Holy Spirit."

God is not "Master"... God is "Heavenly Father".. to the born again.

Christians are the "children of God" and the "Body of Christ".....not slaves.

That is not a "slave and master situation" so, dont use symbolic verses to try to deny CHRISTianity., and never belong to a Cult that teaches you to do that.. Reader.
 
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GracePeace

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There is now no condemnation to those who are IN CHRIST".
But not all remain "in Christ", proven by the fact that keeping His commands is how you remain "in Christ" (Jn 15, 1 Jn 3:23,24), and the one who sins by doing what he doubts, not what he is "fully convinced in his own mind" is correct, is "is condemned" (Ro 14:23), whereas there is "no condemnation for those in Christ" (Ro 8:1).
 

GracePeace

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Christians are not "slaves".

Christians are "Sons / Daughters" of God.

Christians are..

"Heirs of God"
"Joint Heirs with Jesus"
"Seated in Heavenly Places "IN CHRIST"

CHRISTians, are "The Temple of the Holy Spirit.

That is not a "slave and master situation" so, dont use symbolic verses to try to deny CHRISTianity., and never belong to a Cult that teaches you to do that.. Reader.
Oops, you don't know the Greek!
It's the same word as Paul uses to describe himself!

Luke 12:47 N-NMS
GRK: δὲ ὁ δοῦλος ὁ γνοὺς
NAS: And that slave who knew his master's
KJV: And that servant, which knew
INT: moreover servant who having known

Romans 1:1 N-NMS
GRK: ΠΑΥΛΟΣ δοῦλος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
NAS: Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus,
KJV: Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
INT: Paul servant of Jesus Christ
 

GracePeace

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I don't think it's limited to one or the other. I think there is an important message here.

Isaiah 43
11I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
Isaiah 44
6Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Notice that 1 John 3:23,24 do not list the prohibition against idolatry, yet it lists the 2nd greatest command "love one another". How could the prohibition against idolatry be left out? It isn't. Believing in the Name of God' Son is monotheism. Beside the "Whoever doesn't have the Son doesn't have the Father" statement, we see that believing in the Name of God's Son is believing God alone saves.

Being that "there is no God beside YHWH", and being that "there is no Savior beside YHWH", when you trust in another thing to save you, you are committing idolatry.

Now, when the Galatians believed another Gospel (Gal 1:6) which persuasion did not come from God (Gal 5:8), this means the persuasion came from somewhere else. Where else, in the spirit world, would it have come from? Demons. Do demons do such things? Yes, we know there are "doctrines of demons" (1 Ti 4:1). They also tried to "interpret" the Bible for Christ (Mt 4:6). And Paul says that the idols of the nations are demons (1 Co 10:19,20). Therefore, by submitting to the messages of demons, they were committing idolatry. It makes sense of "you are deserting Him Who called you"--they are being drawn away from the true and living God to some false gods, to demons, away from the Light and into the darkness.
The message they were believing was that they would justify themselves by deeds of the Law--they had another savior.
Because of these things (ie, the Galatians choosing to become slaves through returning to the Law, not serving one another by faith which works through love (as also described in Romans 14)--and "slavery" "definitionally" involves fear (Ro 8:15), and the presence of fear portends boasting which makes God refuse to act (Deuteronomy 32:26,27; Judges 7:2; James 4:6)), it may also be stated that even approaching the "program" of deeds done in faith with an attitude of fear (an absence or underemphasis of the benefits conveyed to us "in Christ") may be unacceptable (God not being very active, because there is fear, which portends boasting--which means that the person is doing the work, to this or that extent, not God, meaning the work is unacceptable, because it isn't God's work or righteousness unto God's glory), because it may hold an equivalent disqualification that literally serving under the Law has. Romans 14:6 says "the man gives thanks", but this is easy for people like me to gloss over.

This is the strength, the practical benefit, of your position--the angle of the truth (the truth is multifaceted Ep 3:10) you are emphasizing does not negate the facet of the truth I am emphasizing, but it has a great benefit. You emphasize the love of God, the finished work of Christ, what God has done for us in Christ, the new relationship with we have with God, His disposition toward us in Christ. This reality may be underemphasized to our peril. People who, like myself, have particular backgrounds that cause us to notice other aspects of the truth, severity, may tend to gloss over those sorts of things, kindness, which are extremely substantive, perhaps "the weightier things of the Law". My step father forced my family into Islam, and was extremely severe with us, so, I guess, I have naturally tended to magnetize toward realities of severity--I would say that people from your lens err when you underemphasize "severity", people like me err when we underemphasize "kindness" (Ro 11:22). It's easy for people like me to magnify the severity, and miss the greater reality of the kindness (not focusing on "he gives thanks" (Ro 14:6), but on a warped view of Ro 14:23 that says "I'm starting out in trouble (ignorance or underemphasis of God's kindness) and I had better do what I believe is correct in order to escape condemnation"), but that doesn't mean it's not also wrong (even if it might be less destructive or dangerous) to only see the reality of God's kindness, and deny the reality of God's severity. If I could choose, I'd choose your error, because the greater reality about God toward believers is His kindness, but I'm just not made that way.

In other words, just as the men at Pentecost were boasting of God's greatness, it seems our works are to be done as expressions of God's greatness and righteousness (rightly, since it is God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith Ro 1:17, 14:5, 23), not to establish our own righteousness (Ro 10:3), though living for God's glory encompasses or includes our sanctification, not in fear but in gratitude and praise for what He has done. So, in a very important way, your take is not wrong, though I would say it is inaccurate, and in a very important way, my way could be wrong--ie, could lead to an incorrect conclusion that misses the entire theme ("missing the forest for the trees") of the Gospel, God's love, which itself could be a deep, potentially heretical (despite its "on paper", technical, correctness), error.

Example: Christ said it was His food to do the will of Him Who sent Him. It is technically true that death results from not eating, but, under normal circumstances, no one sits down to eat with terror thinking they're saving their lives. People enjoy eating. So, if we do not do the things we think are correct, we will be condemned, but doing the things that we believe are correct should perhaps moreso be viewed together with the idea of "giving thanks", not as "escaping condemnation" (which could lead to the incorrect view of God that He is angry, leading to fear, and doing deeds with fear).

This doesn't mean that not eating/not obeying will not lead to death, as I am arguing, but recognition of that reality of severity just may lead to the wrong emphasis--eg, for me, because of my background, I looked for, "What should I fear? Where is the threat? That is the base reality. I can work from there." What I ought to do is realize that love is the base reality, and work from there.

I hope I am getting my point across.
 
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MatthewG

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LOL
Wow
Yeah, it makes sense now. You know the drill.

Proverbs 18
13He who answers a matter before he hears it—
this is folly and disgrace to him.

Yeah, I didn’t really read throughly the last comment either; other than knowing that you read enough to make sure your point was known. I don’t know if we may be on the same page as far understanding that…

“There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit; for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death; for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit; for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit — life and peace; because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself, for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ — this one is not His; and if Christ [is] in you, the body, indeed, [is] dead because of sin, and the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness, and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh; for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live; for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God; for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, ‘Abba — Father.’ The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ — if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us; for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; for to vanity was the creation made subject — not of its will, but because of Him who did subject [it] — in hope, that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now. And not only [so], but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting — the redemption of our body; for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for [it]? and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect [it]. And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses; for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth [us], we have not known, but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable, and He who is searching the hearts hath known what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because according to God he doth intercede for saints. And we have known that to those loving God all things do work together for good, to those who are called according to purpose; because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren; and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify. What, then, shall we say unto these things? if God [is] for us, who [is] against us? He who indeed His own Son did not spare, but for us all did deliver him up, how shall He not also with him the all things grant to us? Who shall lay a charge against the choice ones of God? God [is] He that is declaring righteous, who [is] he that is condemning? Christ [is] He that died, yea, rather also, was raised up; who is also on the right hand of God — who also doth intercede for us. Who shall separate us from the love of the Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (according as it hath been written — ‘For Thy sake we are put to death all the day long, we were reckoned as sheep of slaughter,’) but in all these we more than conquer, through him who loved us; for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor messengers, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things about to be, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, that [is] in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭39‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


Is all possible and made possible because of the previous chapter before hand; in chapter 4, because of faith!

That faith produces spiritual fruit which comes from the Holy Spirit of Yahweh whom lives within a persons heart, they also too, have the spirit of Christ living within them; helping to hold the flesh back from its own ways of doing things, written about in chapter 7.

Therefore in the natural cause it would seem that as human beings I see myself as attributing nothing that is good, unless it’s in Christ.

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Anything done in Christ, can be condemned by mankind; however it will not be condemned by Yahweh.

“See ye what love the Father hath given to us, that children of God we may be called; because of this the world doth not know us, because it did not know Him; beloved, now, children of God are we, and it was not yet manifested what we shall be, and we have known that if he may be manifested, like him we shall be, because we shall see him as he is; and every one who is having this hope on him, doth purify himself, even as he is pure. Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness, and ye have known that he was manifested that our sins he may take away, and sin is not in him; every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him. Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil; every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. In this manifest are the children of God, and the children of the devil; every one who is not doing righteousness, is not of God, and he who is not loving his brother, because this is the message that ye did hear from the beginning, that we may love one another, not as Cain — of the evil one he was, and he did slay his brother, and wherefore did he slay him? because his works were evil, and those of his brother righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
 
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GracePeace

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Yeah, I didn’t really read throughly the last comment either; other than knowing that you read enough to make sure your point was known. I don’t know if we may be on the same page as far understanding that…

“There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit; for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death; for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit; for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit — life and peace; because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself, for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ — this one is not His; and if Christ [is] in you, the body, indeed, [is] dead because of sin, and the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness, and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh; for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live; for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God; for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, ‘Abba — Father.’ The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ — if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us; for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; for to vanity was the creation made subject — not of its will, but because of Him who did subject [it] — in hope, that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now. And not only [so], but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting — the redemption of our body; for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for [it]? and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect [it]. And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses; for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth [us], we have not known, but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable, and He who is searching the hearts hath known what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because according to God he doth intercede for saints. And we have known that to those loving God all things do work together for good, to those who are called according to purpose; because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren; and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify. What, then, shall we say unto these things? if God [is] for us, who [is] against us? He who indeed His own Son did not spare, but for us all did deliver him up, how shall He not also with him the all things grant to us? Who shall lay a charge against the choice ones of God? God [is] He that is declaring righteous, who [is] he that is condemning? Christ [is] He that died, yea, rather also, was raised up; who is also on the right hand of God — who also doth intercede for us. Who shall separate us from the love of the Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (according as it hath been written — ‘For Thy sake we are put to death all the day long, we were reckoned as sheep of slaughter,’) but in all these we more than conquer, through him who loved us; for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor messengers, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things about to be, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, that [is] in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭39‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


Is all possible and made possible because of the previous chapter before hand; in chapter 4, because of faith!

That faith produces spiritual fruit which comes from the Holy Spirit of Yahweh whom lives within a persons heart, they also too, have the spirit of Christ living within them; helping to hold the flesh back from its own ways of doing things, written about in chapter 7.

Therefore in the natural cause it would seem that as human beings I see myself as attributing nothing that is good, unless it’s in Christ.

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Anything done in Christ, can be condemned by mankind; however it will not be condemned by Yahweh.

“See ye what love the Father hath given to us, that children of God we may be called; because of this the world doth not know us, because it did not know Him; beloved, now, children of God are we, and it was not yet manifested what we shall be, and we have known that if he may be manifested, like him we shall be, because we shall see him as he is; and every one who is having this hope on him, doth purify himself, even as he is pure. Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness, and ye have known that he was manifested that our sins he may take away, and sin is not in him; every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him. Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil; every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. In this manifest are the children of God, and the children of the devil; every one who is not doing righteousness, is not of God, and he who is not loving his brother, because this is the message that ye did hear from the beginning, that we may love one another, not as Cain — of the evil one he was, and he did slay his brother, and wherefore did he slay him? because his works were evil, and those of his brother righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
So, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the OP?
 

GracePeace

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I did not read it. I was responding to the title of the thread it self
Then you're likely not on topic--I find no reason to read or respond to your comment.
The OP, the thread, is about how people misunderstand and misuse Romans 8:1.
 

MatthewG

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Look at your verse like this....

"To HIM">...... it is sin.

Not to God.

See that?

So, this verse is talking about getting under self inflicted condemnation... guilt tripping, so, to HIM that is what is happening.
"HIM" sees it as "sin"., and that is THEIR Condemnation.

God doesn't see it like that, but "HIM" does, and that is why millions of "HIMS" and "HERS" "confess it".

See "confession" is "how to remove the self condemnation". "How to get out of the guilt trip".

= Oh i know...(the confused believer thinks)......"I'll do what i always do.. .i'll confess it", and then i'll start to FEEL BETTER, and by Tomorrow afternoon, i wont even remember it.

See that reader?
That is all "confessing sin" does............nothing more.
Its a way of dealing with the CONSCIENCE, .. its a way of soothing it.........until you do it again... whatever it is.

So, the issue isn't the deed, the issue is not understanding How God sees it, so that by this revelation, you can see it the same way, and that is your FREEDOM, finally found.

Here it is..

"There is now no condemnation to those who are IN CHRIST".

"Where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".

"God hath made Jesus to be SIN....for US"... so that we can be free from sin and from Condemnation.

.................................."Behold, how does God see my sin," ?????????????????

A.) ON CHRIST, forever. Paid...in FULL...for ETERNITY.

See the CROSS of CHRIST for the update, in case you haven't realized it yet, Reader.
And if your Pope, Pastor, Bishop, Minister, or "other" can not explain to you what i just did, .. if they dont believe it, then find another church where the Minister, understands The Grace of God, as The Cross of Christ.

God doesn’t see the sin. He sees the faith. Though between that person and Yahweh, it seems from my own personal experience that Yahweh desires for us to follow after his Son, and the spirit, every single day.

That’s why when I meet mentally handicapped people who have murdered or who have committed serious crimes of the insidious acts such as child abuse or worse.

In Christ I am unable to judge them. While my flesh may get aggravated at working around mentally disabled clients or mentally ill, because of the behavioral differences between myself and then, in the end some people can help their impulses they have, and need assistance; there are some who just decided (even if not unstable) to commit horrible acts of crimes of the highest degree.

In the end, we are called to believe have faith and to love, all people, in agape love.

One of the biggest things when working with some clients, is the best case scenario is after and issue has been resolved; no matter how big, how long it was, no matter who was involved, no matter what got broke or did not get broke. Once the matter is over, you never bring it up again.

And for the world that’s been made possible; Yahweh looks at all people as blank slates, clean of sin because Jesus took care of that. Do people still struggle with things they may consider sinful? Absolutely, but the biggest sin of all is to be faithless. It’s the only thing keeping people from resting in Yeshua.
 

MatthewG

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Then you're likely not on topic--I find no reason to read or respond to your comment.
The OP, the thread, is about how people misunderstand and misuse Romans 8:1.
I just thought it was about Romans 8:1; but I’m okay with shutting down the conversation! I’m thankful to get all of it off my own chest of what I believe is the correct view rather than going through anything about misunderstanding or misuse of it. To be fair open honest and clear, while it can be abused if you know the truth you’ll avoid it quick. Perhaps though my opinion is wrong; either way only Yahweh knows, and may he be glorified thank you for the response!
 

GracePeace

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Please, people, do not come and scrawl graffiti--if you're going to leave a comment, be considerate, be on topic, address the OP.
 

MatthewG

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Isn't it true that the reason there is no condemnation for those in Christ is because they are not sinning?
Yes.
1 John 3
5You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
That is because the new birth, is the seed in you whom is a believer who is transferred from darkness to light, into the Kingdom of the Son.
In Romans 8:1, Paul had just described the plight of a Jew under the Law--ie, being mastered by sin, and condemned for it. When Paul says, "Therefore," what he is saying next is building upon what came before. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ".

Why not? "In Him there is no sin."
Yes.
However, when the Christian sins (by doing what he doubts--walking in unbelief, not faith), he is condemned (Ro 14:23)--he compromises his justification. How can that be if "there is... no condemnation for those in Christ"?
It’s just the same as asking, if God can be for us? Who can be against us? (Ourselves, looking at the mirror.) While Christian’s can doubt and waver; and unbeliever has no doubt and perhaps doesn’t waver over for a long time or perhaps not at the end of their life being obstinate towards Yahweh. That’s a different story than a meth addicted person, who is homeless who continues to have faith and struggle through life. The other is a cold heartless human being, who killed all of their family, because of just being kicked out on the street. While they can be redeemed, here on earth, the other option is through the fire of Yahweh, perhaps .

Because this is an example of not remaining in Christ.

1 John 2
28And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.
Sometimes I don’t remain in Christ. Chastening exists, and we shouldn’t forget that.
Hebrews 10
38But My righteous one will live by faith; and If [My righteous one] shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.
Turning away, and becoming unfaithful, completely renouncing the once held position, while Yahweh may take no pleasure in their lack of faith which (pleases Yahweh) they are unable to find rest, and their way is off road to the narrow path once gone through.
Philippians 3
9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
It’s all about seed, water, sun, and growing until the very last day when you give up your life, you and even unbelievers are going to be given a new habitat, mansion! Condemned or not. Yahweh is only and always a giver of good gifts, of course those whom remain with a faith measured so closed to Yahweh, I’ll believe they will enjoy their resurrected bodies which are better than the normal ones seemingly given to all of everyone else excluding those which are condemned.
Whereas the one who remains in Christ enjoys "no condemnation", the one who does not remain in Christ is "condemned".
Some people you say you can be sinless forevermore once you hit that pinnacle progressive state, don’t know if it’s true or not, cause I still get chastened.
How to remain in Christ?

1 John 3
23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
That is it. Faith, the death, burial, resurrection, ascending, and return. All accomplished and victory achieved! And its faith which is pleasing to Yahweh. Even though people of faith can waver around like the waves of the ocean from up to down, and are you really there God moments and etc… a faithless person doesn’t believe or have faith let alone they may not even believe in spiritual things, but may believe in aliens in outer space.
Therefore, when Romans 14:23 refers to the Christian who is condemned for breaking faith by doing what he does not believe, it is teaching that this person is not abiding in Christ. Obviously, to abide in Christ means to believe in His mercy that reconnects you to Him, and to then walk before Him in peace.
“Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble. You may believe there’s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don’t feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right. But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭20‬-‭23‬ ‭NLT‬‬

that’s really subjective, especially in regards to “everything is lawful but not all things edify.”

Romans 1:17 says "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith", thus the Christian, who is to reveal God's righteousness (not his own), is, in all his actions, to be "fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5)--and, because this is true, if the Christian does what he doubts is correct before the Lord, it is sin (not the revelation of God's righteousness) whereby the Christian is condemned (Romans 14:23).
That will only be produced by the spirit in the abiding of Yeshua. People can be chastened, by the Father in Heaven, thus condemned by the Holy Spirit; something within just doesn’t seem right because of this conviction. They desire to make things right even aside from their own wrong, it’s all personal, and subjective for sure.
How did the Christian, the justified, become condemned?
By not abiding in Christ.
How?
By not keeping God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24).
By not loving their neighbor, because how can a person say they love God when they hate their neighbor, whom they seen, but Yahweh they have never seen.
There is no other accounting for this anomaly--"there is no condemnation for those in Christ", yet "the Christian who sins is condemned"--and, certainly, the OSAS crowd cannot account for it.

I guess we agree on somethings. Osas doesn’t mean anything to me personally, just a side remark.
 
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