No Condemnation For Those In Christ (Romans 8:1)

[GracePeace]

Isn't it true that the reason there is no condemnation for those in Christ is because they are not sinning?

1 John 3
5You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

In Romans 8:1, Paul had just described the plight of a Jew under the Law--ie, being mastered by sin, and condemned for it. When Paul says, "Therefore," what he is saying next is building upon what came before. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ".

Why not? "In Him there is no sin."

However, when the Christian sins (by doing what he doubts--walking in unbelief, not faith), he is condemned (Ro 14:23)--he compromises his justification. How can that be if "there is... no condemnation for those in Christ"?

Because this is an example of not remaining in Christ.

1 John 2
28And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.

Hebrews 10
38But My righteous one will live by faith; and If [My righteous one] shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

Philippians 3
9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Whereas the one who remains in Christ enjoys "no condemnation", the one who does not remain in Christ is "condemned".

How to remain in Christ?

1 John 3
23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Therefore, when Romans 14:23 refers to the Christian who is condemned for breaking faith by doing what he does not believe, it is teaching that this person is not abiding in Christ. Obviously, to abide in Christ means to believe in His mercy that reconnects you to Him, and to then walk before Him in peace.

Romans 1:17 says "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith", thus the Christian, who is to reveal God's righteousness (not his own), is, in all his actions, to be "fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5)--and, because this is true, if the Christian does what he doubts is correct before the Lord, it is sin (not the revelation of God's righteousness) whereby the Christian is condemned (Romans 14:23).

How did the Christian, the justified, become condemned?
By not abiding in Christ.
How?
By not keeping God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24).

There is no other accounting for this anomaly--"there is no condemnation for those in Christ", yet "the Christian who sins is condemned"--and, certainly, the OSAS crowd cannot account for it.

 

[GracePeace]

I hoped to interact with dissenters, but is there anyone who agrees?

 

[Behold]

Isn't it true that the reason there is no condemnation for those in Christ is because they are not sinning?

No.


The reason there is no condemnation to those who are "in Christ" is because they are 'in Christ".

They are "passed from death, to Life".

"Condemnation", is "God's wrath on you, for your sin that has not been resolved yet by the Cross of Christ".

John 3:36

That is the "condemnation", and John teaches in John 3 that men, women, people dont get saved, .. they wont go to Christ, and some who do, wont take the step of faith, and this is because they LOVE to SIN...>"they prefer darkness". "their deeds are evil"...

 

[GracePeace]

No.


The reason there is no condemnation to those who are "in Christ" is because they are 'in Christ".

They are "passed from death, to Life".

"Condemnation", is "God's wrath on you, for your sin that has not been resolved yet by the Cross of Christ".

John 3:36

That is the "condemnation", and John teaches in John 3 that men, women, people dont get saved, .. they wont go to Christ, and some who do, wont take the step of faith, and this is because they LOVE to SIN...>"they prefer darkness". "their deeds are evil"...

Romans 14:23 says the Christian who sins is "condemned", so they must not be abiding in Christ, as I've argued.

 

[Behold]

Romans 14:23 says the Christian who sins is "condemned", so they must not be abiding in Christ, as I've argued.

"there is now no condemnation to those who are IN Christ".

"no condemnation" on CHRISTians.

Also your verse is talking about eating.

The context is... "He that is weak in faith"... will feel condemned in their heart.

Its the same context as Paul telling us not to "stumble a believer"..

How do you do that?

Its by being of full understanding, regarding Salvation, which allows you LIBERTY, to not put yourself under any condemnation, and so, this mature Believer, might do some simple thing, that a believer who is not mature regarding "the knowledge of God" can't ABIDE...., = and then if this weak believer does it, they feel CONDEMNED within themselves.

Something as simple as eating some food........and a weak believer is UPSET because they feel they "sinned" by eating it., and the Mature believer does not.
So, the Mature Believer has to be careful and not cause someone to do the same thing they are "free to do"...., and THAT weak one, feels "condemned", because their understanding of God's Grace, is nominal..... marginal at best.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Isn't it true that the reason there is no condemnation for those in Christ is because they are not sinning?

no

1 John 3
5You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

In Romans 8:1, Paul had just described the plight of a Jew under the Law--ie, being mastered by sin, and condemned for it. When Paul says, "Therefore," what he is saying next is building upon what came before. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ".

Why not? "In Him there is no sin."

However, when the Christian sins (by doing what he doubts--walking in unbelief, not faith), he is condemned (Ro 14:23)--he compromises his justification. How can that be if "there is... no condemnation for those in Christ"?

Because this is an example of not remaining in Christ.

Therefor. The therefor is that we are no longer under law. It is because I am no longer under the law of sin and death, that I am not condemned.

its not because we no longer sin, or because we sin. Sin has nothing to do with this, it is what are we under, the law of Christ or the law of sin and death

1 John 2
28And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.

Hebrews 10
38But My righteous one will live by faith; and If [My righteous one] shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

Philippians 3
9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Whereas the one who remains in Christ enjoys "no condemnation", the one who does not remain in Christ is "condemned".

How to remain in Christ?

1 John 3
23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Therefore, when Romans 14:23 refers to the Christian who is condemned for breaking faith by doing what he does not believe, it is teaching that this person is not abiding in Christ. Obviously, to abide in Christ means to believe in His mercy that reconnects you to Him, and to then walk before Him in peace.

Romans 1:17 says "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith", thus the Christian, who is to reveal God's righteousness (not his own), is, in all his actions, to be "fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5)--and, because this is true, if the Christian does what he doubts is correct before the Lord, it is sin (not the revelation of God's righteousness) whereby the Christian is condemned (Romans 14:23).

How did the Christian, the justified, become condemned?
By not abiding in Christ.
How?
By not keeping God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24).

There is no other accounting for this anomaly--"there is no condemnation for those in Christ", yet "the Christian who sins is condemned"--and, certainly, the OSAS crowd cannot account for it.

1. A christian is not condemned, He is justified. If he is not justified, he is still dead in his sin.
2. Paul did not say the christian who sins is condemned, Thats your saying.
3. OSAS Crowd? There is there fore no condemnation for those who are in christ.. That is OSAS 101. You can not counter it..

 

[Behold]

How did the Christian, the justified, become condemned?
By not abiding in Christ.
How?
By not keeping God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24).

If commandment keeping died on the Cross for you sin, then keep believe that keeping commandments is what saves you, and its how you abide it Christ.

However, If Jesus THE Lord, died on The Cross, as your SAVIOR, and You have become spiritually joined to Him by "new Birth"... BORN...again.. then Jesus is your JUSTIFICATION, and your Righteousness, and your sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30

End result?

Place your Eternal Bets on the Cross of Christ as how you are saved and forgiven, and BELIEVE that being REDEEMED by the Blood of the Lamb, and the Death of the Savior, is what causes you to always """abide in Christ."""

 

[GracePeace]

"there is now no condemnation to those who are IN Christ".

So, why is the Christian "condemned"?
By your own logic, he's not abiding in Christ.

"no condemnation" on CHRISTians.

Yet the Christian is "condemned".

Also your verse is talking about eating.

"It's just eating--it's not a big deal."
What was it that Adam did to plunge the world into damnation?

The context is... "He that is weak in faith"... will feel condemned in their heart.

No, the context is that the rule Christians live by is "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5), because "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith" (Romans 1:17)--if someone goes against their faith, they are actually sinning.

Romans 14
14...to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

To the believer who thinks something is unclean, it actually is unclean for that person--if he eats with doubt, he has sinned, and he is condemned.

Its the same context as Paul telling us not to "stumble a believer"..
How do you do that?

Its by being of full understanding of Salvation, which allows you LIBERTY, to not put yourself under any condemnation

Incorrect.
The way you do not fall under condemnation, according to Scripture, is by only doing things you believe are correct, because it is by walking by faith that God's righteousness is revealed.

, and so, this mature Believer, might do some simple thing, that a believer who is not mature regarding "the knowledge of God", and then if this weak believer does it, they feel CONDEMNED within themselves.

They do not "feel" condemned, they are actually "condemned".
Show me where it says he "feels" condemned. You're adding to Scripture.
Scripture says what ever does not proceed from faith is sin.
You're saying "The Christian thinks it's sin".
You're saying "The Christian feels he's condemned".
No, the Scripture says "To the one who thinks something is unclean, for him IT IS UNCLEAN, and if he goes ahead and eats, despite the fact that he does not believe in what he is doing, he IS sinning and he IS condemned."
"Forgive" me for believing Scripture instead of your contortion of it.

Something as simple as some food........and a weak believer is UPSET because they feel they "sinned" by eating it., and the Mature believer does not.
So, the Mature Believer has to be careful and not cause someone to do the same thing, and THAT one, feels "condemned", because their understanding of God's Grace, is nominal.

Again, the overall issue is that some believers (Jewish ones) live in one way, and others (Gentile ones) tend to live in other ways. and they are receiving guidance on how to live together without judging one another--and the "hard and fast rule" is "let each man be fully convinced in his own mind", and if they break that rule they are "condemned", because "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, why is the Christian "condemned"?

because he was never a true christian? Because he is still an unbeliever?

John 3, He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condmend already because they have not believed.

By your own logic, he's not abiding in Christ.

nope. My logic is those who are condemned, or those who liv4e in sin, have never met Christ.

Yet the Christian is "condemned".

no, he is not condemned,

"It's just eating--it's not a big deal."
What was it that Adam did to plunge the world into damnation?

Adam did not listen to God. and received what God said would happen.

what did adam do to save himself?

No, the context is that the rule Christians live by is "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5), because "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith" (Romans 1:17)--if someone goes against their faith, they are actually sinning.

yes.

Faith means to be fully convinced. if you are not convinced, you do not have faith.

we are saved by faith, if we have no faith, how can we possibly be saved?

Romans 14
14...to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

To the believer who thinks something is unclean, it actually is unclean for that person--if he eats with doubt, he has sinned, and he is condemned.

Incorrect.
The way you do not fall under condemnation, according to Scripture, is by only doing things you believe are correct, because it is by walking by faith that God's righteousness is revealed.

They do not "feel" condemned, they are actually "condemned".
Show me where it says he "feels" condemned. You're adding to Scripture.
Scripture says what ever does not proceed from faith is sin.
You're saying "The Christian thinks it's sin".
You're saying "The Christian feels he's condemned".
No, the Scripture says "To the one who thinks something is unclean, for him IT IS UNCLEAN, and if he goes ahead and eats, despite the fact that he does not believe in what he is doing, he IS sinning and he IS condemned."
"Forgive" me for believing Scripture instead of your contortion of it.

Again, the overall issue is that some believers (Jewish ones) live in one way, and others (Gentile ones) tend to live in other ways. and they are receiving guidance on how to live together without judging one another--and the "hard and fast rule" is "let each man be fully convinced in his own mind", and if they break that rule they are "condemned", because "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith".

lol. John 3 thoroughly refutes this logic..

 

[GracePeace]

If commandment keeping died on the Cross for you sin, then keep believe that keeping commandments is what saves you, and its how you abide it Christ.

However, If Jesus THE Lord, died on The Cross, as your SAVIOR, and You have become spiritually joined to Him by "new Birth"... BORN...again.. then Jesus is your JUSTIFICATION, and your Righteousness, and your sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30

End result?

Place your Eternal Bets on the Cross of Christ as how you are saved, forgiven, and what causes you to always abide in Christ.

You're bringing up the issue of "works".

When Paul reprimands the Galatians for trying to be justified by the works of the Law, his solution to their error is NOT "faith in Christ alone"; he delivers them from the Law over to doing good works by faith, "faith working through love", "through love serve one another".

Walking in faith (Ro 14:5 says this is the rule for Christians) is walking in love. There is faith in Christ, but, then, there is the faith, the conviction, that God's love works in Christians' hearts that we are to walk by before Him and as unto Him.

Now, Romans 1:17 says God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith, which is why Romans 14:5 says each man must be fully convinced in his own mind, and why Romans 14:23 says what ever someone does that is not from faith, but from doubt, is a sin whereby they are condemned.
Nevertheless, when one is walking by faith, they are not revealing their own righteousness, but God's righteousness: those are not "works of the Law" whereby one has "a righteousness of their own".

To add to my point, in the Torah, when the Land has its Sabbath, its rest, it is still active.
The land is resting, yet it is active, it's just not working.
IF the land it is tilled, if its vines are pruned, if a harvest is performed--things that establish a Master-Slave relationship with it--then it is "working", and being caused to break its Sabbath, its rest. However, when it is left alone, and these things are not done to it, it is STILL active during its Sabbath rest, producing fruit which people may pass through and enjoy (just not "harvest"), but this activity doesn't qualify as "work", whereby its Sabbath rest would be broken, because no Master-Slave relationship has been established with it.
Therefore, again, not all "activity" is "work".

 

[Behold]

So, why is the Christian "condemned"?

They are not condemned by God.
They are condemned by their own conscience.

By your own logic, he's not abiding in Christ.

The way you Abide in Christ is to be born again into "Christ".

What was it that Adam did to plunge the world into damnation?

Same as Lucifer.

"rebellion", however, Lucifer's didn't affect all of Humanity, until He led Adam into Rebellion.
Lucifer is not a Human.

Whereas all of us, are of the "blood line" of Adam, so His fall, is the fall of us all...

"let every man be fully convinced in his own mind"

Exactly, and if you are not convinced that watching that Netflix movie is "ok for a Christian" and you watch it anyway.. being undecided..., you will feel condemned by your own mind before the movie is over.

That's the condemnation.

Romans 14
14...to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Exactly.

If you BELIEVE its wrong, then for you , it is.. and if you do it, you will be condemned by you own conscience.

To the believer who thinks something is unclean, it actually is unclean for that person--if he eats with doubt, he has sinned, and he is condemned.

Sinned unto themselves..

In other words, THEY believe it.. and that is "the condemnation"..

Again, the overall issue is that some believers (Jewish ones) live in one way,

My home is in Israel.
So, i can tell you, that to become a Christian is to become this..regarding all CHRISTians.

Paul teaches... in Galatians 3

"""""There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."""

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're bringing up the issue of "works".

When Paul reprimands the Galatians for trying to be justified by the works of the Law, his solution to their error is NOT "faith in Christ alone"; he delivers them from the Law over to doing good works by faith, "faith working through love", "through love serve one another".

Walking in faith (Ro 14:5 says this is the rule for Christians) is walking in love. There is faith in Christ, but, then, there is the faith, the conviction, that God's love works in Christians' hearts that we are to walk by before Him and as unto Him.

Now, Romans 1:17 says God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith, which is why Romans 14:5 says each man must be fully convinced in his own mind, and why Romans 14:23 says what ever someone does that is not from faith, but from doubt, is a sin whereby they are condemned.
Nevertheless, when one is walking by faith, they are not revealing their own righteousness, but God's righteousness: those are not "works of the Law" whereby one has "a righteousness of their own".

To add to my point, in the Torah, when the Land has its Sabbath, its rest, it is still active.
The land is resting, yet it is active, it's just not working.
IF the land it is tilled, if its vines are pruned, if a harvest is performed--things that establish a Master-Slave relationship with it--then it is "working", and being caused to break its Sabbath, its rest. However, when it is left alone, and these things are not done to it, it is STILL active during its Sabbath rest, producing fruit which people may pass through and enjoy (just not "harvest"), but this activity doesn't qualify as "work", whereby its Sabbath rest would be broken, because no Master-Slave relationship has been established with it.
Therefore, again, not all "activity" is "work".

(removed)

 

[GracePeace]

because he was never a true christian? Because he is still an unbeliever?

There are no unbelievers in view, with respect to instructions he's giving on how Christians are to be living, in Romans 14.

John 3, He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condmend already because they have not believed.

The one who does what he does not believe is not in faith, thus he is condemned.

nope. My logic is those who are condemned, or those who liv4e in sin, have never met Christ.

It's really interesting to see the wheels fall off the OSASer's buses when they actually read Scripture.

no, he is not condemned,

Scripture says he's condemned, so I believe it.

Adam did not listen to God. and received what God said would happen.

He ate, and plunged the world into condemnation; the other user tried to make light of the issue of eating, and he was wrong for doing that. He was trying to make his point appear more believable, and mine less believable, but he was taking shots at Scriptural truth in order to do it. Not helpful.

what did adam do to save himself?

Irrelevant.

yes.

Faith means to be fully convinced. if you are not convinced, you do not have faith.

Fully convinced about what you should be doing--the one who acts in doubt is condemned, because God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith, not our own righteousness from the knowledge of Good and Evil.

we are saved by faith, if we have no faith, how can we possibly be saved?

Interesting: you actually are conceding that, since this section of Scripture doesn't deal with "faith that Christ died and resurrected", but "conviction about how one should walk before the Lord", you're admitting that salvation depends on how we walk.

lol. John 3 thoroughly refutes this logic..

LOL You always run away to hide behind abuses of other Scriptures to avoid dealing with Scripture head-on.

 

[Behold]

but God's righteousness:

The only "righteousness" is God's Righteousness.

So, the BELIEVER, receives this as their SALVATiON..... and has become.."THE Righteousness OF GOD..... IN Christ".

This is to be "made righteous".. and that is the eternal Status of every born again Believer.

This is the purpose of the Cross., and Christ's death on it.
= Jesus came, as "God manifested in the Flesh"... 1 Tim 3:16.... so that He can become our sin bearer, and we can become "Christ's righteousness", and this allows GOD to receive us into Himself, as "one with God".

Welcome to : SALVATiON

Its an eternal "GIFT".

 

[GracePeace]

They are not condemned by God.
They are condemned by their own conscience.

1. They are "destroyed" and "condemned".
You say, "It's OK, because it's not real".
2. No, they are condemned by God, because "to the one who believes something is unclean for him IT IS UNCLEAN", so that person is actually condemned, because he isn't doing what he fully believes is correct, and is not revealing God's righteousness.

The way you Abide in Christ is to be born again into "Christ".

Well, that's what the discussion is about, so people have to read the whole discussion.

Same as Lucifer.

"rebellion", however, Lucifer's didn't affect all of Humanity, until He led Adam into Rebellion.
Lucifer is not a Human.

Whereas all of us, are of the "blood line" of Adam, so His fall, is the fall of us all...

Adam ate food. You want to minimize the importance of eating to establish your view, but you're doing damage to Scriptural reality.

Exactly, and if you are not convinced that watching that Netflix movie is "ok for a Christian" and you watch it anyway.. being undecided..., you will feel condemned by your own mind before the movie is over.

You're, again, adding to Scripture.
The passage teaches that anything that does not proceed from faith is sin "in your conscience", it says it's actually sin for you, leading to condemnation. You add in your words to try to change the meaning of the teaching, but that is dishonesty.

That's the condemnation.


Exactly.

If you BELIEVE its wrong, then for you , it is.. and if you do it, you will be condemned by you own conscience.

No, if you believe it is wrong, then, for you, it actually is wrong, because God's righteousness is only revealed from faith to faith.

Sinned unto themselves..

In other words, THEY believe it.. and that is "the condemnation"..

Nope, it doesn't say you sin unto yourself, it says you have sinned and you are condemned.

My home is in Israel.
So, i can tell you, that to become a Christian is to become this..regarding all CHRISTians.

Paul teaches... in Galatians 3

"""""There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."""

Not sure how this is actually a response to what I said.

 

[GracePeace]

The only "righteousness" is God's Righteousness.

Nope, there's also "a righteousness of my own from the Law".

So, the BELIEVER, receives this as their SALVATiON..... and has become.."THE Righteousness OF GOD..... IN Christ".

Assuming they're remaining in Christ--which, denying it is a possibility they may not remain, is begging the question.

This is to be "made righteous".. and that is the eternal Status of every born again Believer.

That's already been debunked by Romans 14:23.

 

[Behold]

1. They are "destroyed" and "condemned".

Wrongly diving the word of God can lead to suicide, or to a mental institution.
It does not always lead the person to start a false denomination.

I have known people who were "over the edge" into "mental illness" because they read a single verse in the NT that says.."if we sin willfully there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin".

So they misunderstood this verse, and thought....."OMG, i knew it was willful sinning when i was downloading porn, or when i was watching soft porn Netflix movies, or when i was using Marijuana, or when i was fornicating with my girlfriend"..

"OMG< ive willfully sinned and now there is no more sacrifice for me... IM GOING TO HELL">.

And they went NUTZ... instead.

The Bible is not a TOY to be played with.... its a BEAR TRAP and it a Spiritual Lighting Rod that can bless or curse.

This is why Paul tells us to STUDY and "rightly divide" or the person is going to become a victim of "crazy theology" that is them connecting dots, until the dots turn on them, and make them mentally unstable.

its a fact.

You say, "It's OK, because it's not real".
2. No, they are condemned by God,

Christians exist in Spiritual Union with God.
There is no condemnation found there.
The only place condemnation is found is..

"in your own head", or... to be under God's Wrath, which is Damnation, (condemned to Hell), until the unbeliever is born again.

Adam ate food.

The food was not the sin... the EATING what was forbidden.....is the "iniquity".

And that happened in Adam's heart the moment he DECIDED to do it..
So, its that DECISION that is the sin.......and the doing it, is just the end result of what had happened inside Adam.

This is the same with Lucifer.. as "iniquity was found IN HIM"......

Remember that JESUS told you.."if you have a porn fantasy in you head when you look at that girl or boy" then the SIN has happened.
You dont have to fornicate, as you already did in your head...

In other words...>"dont do THAT".. what "THAT" IS......is the rebellion.
The Choice to DECIDE to DO what you have been forbidden to to......this is the TRANSGRESSION.

You're, again, adding to Scripture.
The passage teaches that anything that does not proceed from faith is sin

Did you take a shower yesterday?
Was it taken in faith?

So, ;you are reading the verse, and nothing else.

Nope, it doesn't say you sin unto yourself, it says you have sinned and you are condemned.

"God hath made Jesus to be sin for us".

"US" is the born again.

So, Jesus has our sin, not us.. and He is the Sacrifice for our sin........and this is the end of it.
And now..

The born again are "not under the Law"... so, by not being under the Law, the law can't define what you do as sin"..

"not under the law, but under Grace".

 

[GracePeace]

Wrongly diving the word of God can lead to suicide, or to a mental institution.
It does not always lead the person to start a false denomination.

I have known people who were "over the edge" into "mental illness" because they read a single verse in the NT that says.."if we sin willfully there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin".

So they misunderstood this verse, and thought....."OMG, i knew it was willful sinning when i was downloading porn, or when i was watching soft porn Netflix movies, or when i was using Marijuana, or when i was fornicating with my girlfriend"..

"OMG< ive willfully sinned and now there is no more sacrifice for me... IM GOING TO HELL">.

And they went NUTZ... instead.

The Bible is not a TOY to be played with.... its a BEAR TRAP and it a Spiritual Lighting Rod that can bless or curse.

This is why Paul tells us to STUDY and "rightly divide" or the person is going to become a victim of "crazy theology" that is them connecting dots, until the dots turn on them, and make them mentally unstable.

its a fact.

You have no answer: sounds good.

Christians exist in Spiritual Union with God.

1 John 2:28 debunks the idea that all Christians remain in Christ.
1 John 3:23,24 says how to remain.
1 John 5:21 says idols draw the immature away from Christ.
Galatians 1:6 says the believers were deserting God.
Galatians 5:3 says they were severed from Christ, fallen from grace.

You: No, don't believe Scripture. Believe me.

There is no condemnation found there.

Yeah, if you remain there--if not, Romans 14:23 says you're condemned.

The only place condemnation is found is..

"in your own head", or... to be under God's Wrath, which is Damnation, (condemned to Hell), until the unbeliever is born again.

Romans 14:23 doesn't deal with unbelievers.

The food was not the sin... the EATING what was forbidden.....is the "iniquity".

No one ever said the food was the sin.
You said you live in Israel, so maybe we have a language barrier.
Not sure I want to continue this conversation--it's already a difficult subject which people find difficult to accept when they can actually understand what is being said (ie, the language), but it seems it is only adding to the problem that maybe there is a language barrier. I don't know how you could, in honesty, claim I said the food was the sin.

 

[Behold]

You have no answer: sounds good.

I posted the same answer, a few times.
Im not required to learn it for you.

1 John 2:28 debunks the idea that all Christians remain in Christ.

You can't stop being born again.

But you can be a horrible Christian....and does this not cause the born again, to stop being born again.

Yeah, if you remain there--if not, Romans 14:23 says you're condemned.

The verse does not say you are going to Hell.
It does not say you have lost your salvation.

Listen, God saved SINNERS.......... and so, they are become a "new Creation" and that does not change.

Behavior does not alter the New Birth., exactly as behavior didnt cause anyone to become a Christian.

So, what can't save you, can't cause you to lose your salvation.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isn't it true that the reason there is no condemnation for those in Christ is because they are not sinning?

1 John 3
5You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

In Romans 8:1, Paul had just described the plight of a Jew under the Law--ie, being mastered by sin, and condemned for it. When Paul says, "Therefore," what he is saying next is building upon what came before. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ".

Why not? "In Him there is no sin."

However, when the Christian sins (by doing what he doubts--walking in unbelief, not faith), he is condemned (Ro 14:23)--he compromises his justification. How can that be if "there is... no condemnation for those in Christ"?

Because this is an example of not remaining in Christ.

1 John 2
28And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.

Hebrews 10
38But My righteous one will live by faith; and If [My righteous one] shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

Philippians 3
9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Whereas the one who remains in Christ enjoys "no condemnation", the one who does not remain in Christ is "condemned".

How to remain in Christ?

1 John 3
23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Therefore, when Romans 14:23 refers to the Christian who is condemned for breaking faith by doing what he does not believe, it is teaching that this person is not abiding in Christ. Obviously, to abide in Christ means to believe in His mercy that reconnects you to Him, and to then walk before Him in peace.

Romans 1:17 says "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith", thus the Christian, who is to reveal God's righteousness (not his own), is, in all his actions, to be "fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5)--and, because this is true, if the Christian does what he doubts is correct before the Lord, it is sin (not the revelation of God's righteousness) whereby the Christian is condemned (Romans 14:23).

How did the Christian, the justified, become condemned?
By not abiding in Christ.
How?
By not keeping God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24).

There is no other accounting for this anomaly--"there is no condemnation for those in Christ", yet "the Christian who sins is condemned"--and, certainly, the OSAS crowd cannot account for it.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In my opinion this speaks of condemning no more. As in no more condemnation within those in Christ. “Let not bitterness take root..” No more guile. For it’s what comes out of a man that defiles the man?

As a vessel built for destruction does what it’s built to do…which is it destroys and is meant to be taken and destroyed. A vessel of Mercy does what God prepared it to do, which is “be you Merciful”. Where love is the fulfillment of the law? How can condemnation make its home in Mercy? Paul seemed to realize he was a vessel of destruction until God separated him, and called him out of condemnation unto Mercy. With that calling…you can witness a change in Paul’s “no more condemnation” where it became “mercy…mercy…mercy …grace…forgiveness…long suffering…patience!” With the changing of vessels…the content also changes to Mercy where there is “no more condemnation”.