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Cooper

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Great, demonize what you don't fully understand. Such fruit is not of Christ.

No wonder you think we're not going to get along.
Jesus, my all-in-all, had one message clear and simple, which is that no person can serve two masters. His message was to shun evil and to walk in paths of righteousness. He never combined good with evil, but drove the demons out and healed that person.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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TheslightestID said:
Luke 13:3 ESV

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish



Good, I'm glad you understand I was and I still am being sincere.

I truly don't understand. The verse I just posted clearly states we must repent, and your reply to that might as well be you stating you disagree with the bible. I guess I'm trying to understand how you, a Christian, can be so caught up that you actually basically admit you disagree with the bible?

Serious question, are you openly admitting you disagree with the bible?


Nope...the problem is how we differ on the meaning of “ Repentance ” ....I have said forever that Repentance is MANDANTORY for Salvation......and if anybody can find a verse ANYWhERE in the KJV that says “ One must Repent “OF SINS” in order to be Saved “ —- I am right there with them! Unfortunately it is nowhere to be found.....

The word “ repent “ is all over the place in the Bible.....if the Bible says “ Repent Of Sins”, By all means—- do it!

If the Bible says “ Repent Of Sins in order to be Saved” —— do that also! Unfortunately , thecBible never says that......

Here is what the Bible DOES say......The Word “ repentance” can also mean to “TURN”..... God says “ TURN to me, with Faith in Jesus Christ, and I will save you to the Uttermost !” For the purpose of Salvation, it is that “ Turning” to God ( Repentance) That starts the Saving Process.....God Even gave another promise to back that thinking up ..He says “ TURN to me , and I will Turn to you”....Jesus lamented the fact that he longed to save the entirety of Israel, but....” They would not TURN to me.....

Turning from Sin is a great idea and it most often plays a “ part” in Salvation but if one thinks that they can turn from sin in this lifetime to the extent that they can do it perfectly enough to Merit Salvation they got it wrong.....To some extent it would involve going back to the Law and trying to keep up with the impossible demands that even Paul admitted “ he nor his fathers could uphold” ......Plus the Bible makes clear that it is ALL of Faith and “ by the Works Of The Law, no Flesh will be Justified!” The Standard to be reached if one goes down that road is PERFECTION.....and only Jesus had that.....

Yes.....Repentance is Mandatory.....you just have to understand the correct type in regard to Salvation...... Turning from Sin is great but it does not not save...AFTER Salvation one will repent automatically from Sin and with the Indwelling Holy Sprit , one will actually begin to make some “ inroads”

“ Before” a man gets saved, without the Holy Spirit , a man that try’s to really repent is just spinning his wheels....he has no real Power .....his repentance is no better than “ turning over a New Leaf”

True Repentance That Saves is NOT “ Turning FROM sins” ( although that can be involved, granted) ....the Repentance That Saves is “ Turning TO God”...... wanna know what it looks like? Check out the wicked Publican in Luke 18:13 as he cries out “ Lord, have Mercy on me a Sinner”.....THAT is a “Repentance” that will SAVE! Jesus said that that man went home “ Justified”..... just as if he had never sinned.....Turn to God—- REPENT! Just do it the way God Wants you to.....turn to Him as a Lost, Hopeless , Hell-Deserving Sinner and then Trust Him to “ Clean you up” and make you fit for Heaven as “ HE” begins to do what you CANT —— which Is to TRANSFORM you from the inside- out .....men can “ change” and that is the basis of any “ religion” ......Only GOD can TRANSFORM ! “ Transform” The “ Inside Of the Cup” ......God Bless ....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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That's right. And look at who Paul says is the crown......

For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? 1 Thessalonians 2:19

...my brothers and sisters, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown... Philippians 4:1


I think the Saved will be revealed in future times

to be what they truly are—— GIFTS ! Jesus presents His Saved Believers as Gifts to God .....what does God do with these ” Gifts?” ......It turns out that God is a bit of a “ show-off” .....he will take you and I and all of the other Redeemed Sinners throughout time and use us as examples to show off the Amazing Grace and Mercy he extended toward those that Trusted Him....


When it comes to Crowns , or Rewards passed out in Heaven .....those men of Faith who fight for the Truth Of The Gospel and get Souls Saved will be second only to Martyrs when it comes to being rewarded....
Not every man is a “ Soul Winner” but if one helps to support this type of man with financial assistance——- he will Share in that soul winners reward...
Let’s say I give 10 % of my income to support somebody like Charles Stanley or another man who is “ winning souls for Christ” and the guy down the road gives 50 % Of “ his” income to support him ....the reward for for the second guy will be bigger than that the reward for the first.....we will get rewarded for our Faith....it takes more Faith to sacrifice 50% of your income than it does to sacrifice 10%.....

Jesus spoke of “ building Treasure in Heaven”—— this is one way to accomplish that

It was said that when John Wesley practiced tithing he did it backwards.....he kept 10% and gave God 90% of his income....oh, to have that kind of Faith ! I sure don’t have it....Think about the rewards that guy is gonna enjoy Throughout Eternity.....Giving is a reflection of one’s Faith.....If have the Holy Spirit in you, God’s gonna make a “Giver” out of you...may God increase the Faith Of ALL of us! It’s gonna pay some day......and pay for Eternity ....
 

ScottA

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Jesus, my all-in-all, had one message clear and simple, which is that no person can serve two masters. His message was to shun evil and to walk in paths of righteousness. He never combined good with evil, but drove the demons out and healed that person.
So why are you making accusations, making things personal, getting off topic, and name-dropping Jesus in your own self-defense? I wanted to say, "Good, keep doing that!" But your above statement doesn't line up with what you've been doing.
 

BloodBought 1953

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Jesus, my all-in-all, had one message clear and simple, which is that no person can serve two masters. His message was to shun evil and to walk in paths of righteousness. He never combined good with evil, but drove the demons out and healed that person.


I have heard it said that Jesus never really preached “ A Message”——-Jesus Preached “ HIMSELF!” .....I alway thought that made sense....
 

Cooper

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I have heard it said that Jesus never really preached “ A Message”——-Jesus Preached “ HIMSELF!” .....I alway thought that made sense....
It makes sense to me as well. Jesus lived out his message, and we are to take our example from him. The trouble is, history is full of whited sepulchres, the self-righteous. They overturn good with evil and make accusations against those who follow the Lord. The disciples and early Christians suffered horribly at their hands, as did Jesus, but eventually the devil will be thrown into the lake of fire with all the false prophets. Revelation 20:10.
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Ferris Bueller

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if anybody can find a verse ANYWhERE in the KJV that says “ One must Repent “OF SINS” in order to be Saved “ —- I am right there with them! Unfortunately it is nowhere to be found.
"...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." Acts 2:38

"19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..." Acts 3:19

"26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." Acts 3:26​

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TheslightestID

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and if anybody can find a verse ANYWhERE in the KJV that says “ One must Repent “OF SINS” in order to be Saved “ —- I am right there with them! Unfortunately it is nowhere to be found.....

It is somewhere to be found, but we must let ourselves see it. It was right there in the scripture I quoted. Here it is again, and notice the term "perish", there is no doubt that means hell. We are either saved, or we perish, the term is all over the bible . So we must repent in order to not perish, or to be saved from perishing.

Luke 13:3 ESV

No, I tell you, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish
 

Ferris Bueller

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It is somewhere to be found, but we must let ourselves see it. It was right there in the scripture I quoted. Here it is again, and notice the term "perish", there is no doubt that means hell. We are either saved, or we perish, the term is all over the bible . So we must repent in order to not perish, or to be saved from perishing.

Luke 13:3 ESV

No, I tell you, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish
While it may be a good scripture, it isn't specific enough to serve the purpose. It is for you and I, but I've learned that when you present a scripture you have to put yourself in your opponents shoes and figure out they may raise enough doubt about it that it remains in dispute. That's why I only use the scriptures that they can't do that with.

BB isn't saying repentance from sin and toward God is not necessary to be saved. He's saying doing those things, in and of themselves, does not earn salvation. And I agree completely. You have to believe and repent to be saved, but neither of those things literally earns your justification and salvation.
 

TheslightestID

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And I agree completely. You have to believe and repent to be saved, but neither of those things literally earns your justification and salvation.

Doen't matter if it earns salvation or not, its just a matter of putting two and two together. As long as we repent, we are in, and for me, even it I don't understand the rest, that is enough to get me there.

I'd rather go to heaven with questions in my mind than go to hell because I didnt have all the answers.
 

BloodBought 1953

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"...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." Acts 2:38

"19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..." Acts 3:19

"26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." Acts 3:26​

Please forward your check or money order for $1000.00 to:

Ferris Bueller
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As I said......”repentance” is mentioned throughout the Bible and none of these verses meet my challenge....they all say “ repent” —- they did NOT say “ repent from “ SINS”......

In all verses pertaining to Salvation , the Word that the translators used for “ repentance” was “ metanoia”—— that Greek Word means literally “ mind change” ......Stopping sin.....conquering sin while you are in a flesh body is impossible.....God knows that....He does not want your “ perfection”—— He Wants your TRUST! Did God Save Abraham because Abraham was “ perfect” or TRIED to be Perfect? No— God Saved Abraham because of his Trust.....

The ONLY way to get Saved if you are an Unbeliever is to “ change your mind” from “ Unbelief” in Jesus as your Savior To a ” belief” in Jesus as your Savior......The Jews in the audience of the early disciples had just Crucified Jesus....they saw him as a fraud and a blasphemer.....Jesus claimed He was the Son Of God and got crucified for stating it.....the Jews did the right thing “IF” Jesus was not who He claimed to be ....unfortunately for them, Jesus “ WAS” who He claimed to be.....until they “ changed their mind” about THAT .....I don't care how sincere their intentions were to “ stop sinning” ....a “ Repentance” Of That style wasn't gonna get them anywhere until they rightly BELIEVED Jesus was who who He said He was—- “God's Son and our Savior From Sins”

Allow me to suggest “ this”—— when you see that word “ Repent” ,as in “ repent and be baptized”, say it THIS way—- “ Change your mind about Jesus ....change from being an Unbeliever to becoming a Believer and be baptized....”

Or use another meaning of the word “Repentance” , which means “ to turn” and substitute THIS in these types of verses.....” Turn to God” and be baptized.....or “Turn to God” so your sins will be blotted out .....this should make perfect sense, because God plainly states that if you “ TURN to Him with Faith in Jesus He will Save you to the Uttermost” or “ TURN to Me and I will TURN to you” —— Nothing is ever said about “ repenting from or giving up Sin” ......If you simply “Turn to God” and apply “HIS” remedy for Sin and sinning — Trusting in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 —- all the type of repenting that you guys believe in will take care of itself....

Repent from Unbelief in the Gospel To BELIEF in the Gospel and God will put His Spirit in you..because of that Spirit Indwelling you , you will eventually “ find yourself” doing the things that please God —- without you trying so hard to do it by yourself! Getting the Holy Spirit Of God Inside Of You is the ONLY way to be Saved.....you don’t get it by trying ( and of course , failing) to conquer Sin .....you get it by Believing the Gospel....that shows you have “ changed your mind” about Jesus —- you have Truly Repented.....God bless
 
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Cooper

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As I said......”repentance” is mentioned throughout the Bible and none of these verses meet my challenge....they all say “ repent” —- they did NOT say “ repent from “ SINS”......

In all verses pertaining to Salvation , the Word that the translators used for “ repentance” was “ metanoia”—— that Greek Word means literally “ mind change” ......Stopping sin.....conquering sin while you are in a flesh body is impossible.....God knows that....He does not want your “ perfection”—— He Wants your TRUST! Did God Save Abraham because Abraham was “ perfect” or TRIED to be Perfect? No— God Saved Abraham because of his Trust.....

The ONLY way to get Saved if you are an Unbeliever is to “ change your mind” from “ Unbelief” in Jesus as your Savior To a ” belief” in Jesus as your Savior......The Jews in the audience of the early disciples had just Crucified Jesus....they saw him as a fraud and a blasphemer.....Jesus claimed He was the Son Of God and got crucified for stating it.....the Jews did the right thing “IF” Jesus was not who He claimed to be ....unfortunately for them, Jesus “ WAS” who He claimed to be.....until they “ changed their mind” about THAT .....I don't care how sincere their intentions were to “ stop sinning” ....a “ Repentance” Of That style wasn't gonna get them anywhere until they rightly BELIEVED Jesus was who who He said He was—- “God's Son and our Savior From Sins”

Allow me to suggest “ this”—— when you see that word “ Repent” ,as in “ repent and be baptized”, say it THIS way—- “ Change your mind about Jesus ....change from being an Unbeliever to becoming a Believer and be baptized....”

Or use another meaning of the word “Repentance” , which means “ to turn” and substitute THIS in these types of verses.....” Turn to God” and be baptized.....or “Turn to God” so your sins will be blotted out .....this should make perfect sense, because God plainly states that if you “ TURN to Him with Faith in Jesus He will Save you to the Uttermost” or “ TURN to Me and I will TURN to you” —— Nothing is ever said about “ repenting from or giving up Sin” ......If you simply “Turn to God” and apply “HIS” remedy for Sin and sinning — Trusting in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 —- all the type of repenting that you guys believe in will take care of itself....

Repent from Unbelief in the Gospel To BELIEF in the Gospel and God will out His Spirit in you..because of that Spirit Indwelling you , you will eventually “ find yourself” doing the things that please God —- without you trying so hard to do it by yourself! Getting the Holy Spirit Of God Inside Of You is the ONLY way to be Saved.....you don’t get it by trying ( and of course , failing) to conquer Sin .....you get it by Believing the Gospel....that shows you have “ changed your mind” about Jesus —- you have Truly Repented.....God bless

Act_13:24 Before he came, John the Baptist preached that all the people of Israel needed to repent of their sins and turn to God and be baptized.

Act_17:30 “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him.

Act_2:38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act_26:20 I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that all must repent of their sins and turn to God—and prove they have changed by the good things they do.

Act_3:19 Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away.

Act_5:31 Then God put him in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior. He did this so the people of Israel would repent of their sins and be forgiven.

Eze_14:6 “Therefore, tell the people of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Repent and turn away from your idols, and stop all your detestable sins.

Eze_18:30 (ISV) "Therefore, Israel, I'm going to judge you according to the behavior of each and every one of you," declares the Lord GOD. "So repent and turn from all your sins so that sin won't keep on being a stumbling block for you.

Eze_3:19 If you warn them and they refuse to repent and keep on sinning, they will die in their sins. But you will have saved yourself because you obeyed me.

Eze_33:12 (NLT) “Son of man, give your people this message: The righteous behavior of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the wicked behavior of wicked people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins.

Eze_33:9 But if you warn them to repent and they don’t repent, they will die in their sins, but you will have saved yourself.

Jer_36:3 Perhaps the people of Judah will repent when they hear again all the terrible things I have planned for them. Then I will be able to forgive their sins and wrongdoings.”

Lam_2:14 (GNB) Your prophets had nothing to tell you but lies; Their

Luk_11:32 The people of Nineveh will also stand up against this generation on judgment day and condemn it, for they repented of their sins at the preaching of Jonah. Now someone greater than Jonah is here—but you refuse to repent.

Luk_13:3 Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God.

Luk_16:30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’

Luk_24:47 It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in the authority of his name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: ‘There is forgiveness of sins for all who repent.’

Luke 5:32 KJV I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mar_1:15 “The time promised by God has come at last!” he announced. “The Kingdom of God is near! Repent of your sins and believe the Good News!”

Mar_6:12 So the disciples went out, telling everyone they met to repent of their sins and turn to God.

Mat_12:41 “The people of Nineveh will stand up against this generation on judgment day and condemn it, for they repented of their sins at the preaching of Jonah. Now someone greater than Jonah is here—but you refuse to repent.

Mat_21:32 For John the Baptist came and showed you the right way to live, but you didn’t believe him, while tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even when you saw this happening, you refused to believe him and repent of your sins.

Mat_3:11 “I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Mat_3:2 “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.”

Mat_4:17 From then on Jesus began to preach, “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.”

Rev_16:9 Everyone was burned by this blast of heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had control over all these plagues. They did not repent of their sins and turn to God and give him glory.

Rev_2:16 (NLT) Repent of your sin, or I will come to you suddenly and fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
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BloodBought 1953

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Doen't matter if it earns salvation or not, its just a matter of putting two and two together. As long as we repent, we are in, and for me, even it I don't understand the rest, that is enough to get me there.

I'd rather go to heaven with questions in my mind than go to hell because I didnt have all the answers.


I think the Bible shows that Judas was a sincere Repenter...his remorse and sorrow for his sins were so sincere that he even returned his ill- gotten silver to the ones that gave it to him....his sorrow and guilt were so sincere and extreme, he could not stand it, and he had to kill himself...in a way, Judas was the “ King” of Repenters....I must ask respectfully —— is he “ IN? The bigger question would be , how do you define “ repentance”—— the repentance that Saves.....
 
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michaelvpardo

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That's right. And look at who Paul says is the crown......

For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? 1 Thessalonians 2:19

...my brothers and sisters, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown... Philippians 4:1
That's what theologians call isogesis, reading into the text according to your understanding and belief, rather than exegesis, gaining understanding from what the text is saying. By your reasoning, the Lord is going to squeeze the Churches Paul ministered to into a crown and hand it to him as his reward. I'll tell you that the parable of the talents is a more appropriate analogy than Paul's metaphor because it expresses the concept of stewardship, and stewardship is not ownership, but authority under responsibility to the owner. Paul was actually being presumptuous in his question (it is a question not a statement) because no one determines their rewards but Christ Himself and that at the Bema seat judgment ( the judgment of works and the gifts of reward according to the wisdom of Christ, not the hopes of men.) Paul was a sinful man and admitted it openly. He had no fear of condemnation because of the plain truth of the gospel and he was absolutely aware of his own weakness and failings. The preacher applies the word first to himself and then to the congregation.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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none of these verses meet my challenge....they all say “ repent” —- they did NOT say “ repent from “ SINS”.
It's there. You're just missing it.

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out...

...having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. Acts 3:19, Acts 3:26
Repent in a turning away from sin for the remission of sin. Yeah, that sounds like a works gospel, but it ain't. There's no reason to change what the Bible plainly says just because some well meaning people misunderstand it's message. You and I both agree that repenting from sin and toward God for the remission of sin does not mean doing that earns you salvation. But that is what we are told to do to be saved. Repent from sin and towards God for the remission of sin.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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By your reasoning, the Lord is going to squeeze the Churches Paul ministered to into a crown and hand it to him as his reward.
By your reasoning, you're making the crown a literal crown we will wear on our heads, which it is not. It's a metaphor for praise and honor. We will in fact be praised for and will glory in our work in the kingdom completed in this age. I posted the scriptures that say this. We will glory in our work in the age to come. Not in our salvation, but in our work. Our work completed being the people who entered into the kingdom as a result of our labor in the field and building of God as God's co-worker. So be careful how you build! Build so as to get a reward. Run so as to win the prize.
 
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michaelvpardo

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I think the Bible shows that Judas was a sincere Repenter...his remorse and sorrow for his sins were so sincere that he even returned his ill- gotten gold to the ones that gave it to him....his sorrow and guilt were so sincere and extreme, he could not stand it, and he had to kill himself...in a way, Judas was the “ King” of Repenters....I must ask respectfully —— is he “ IN? The bigger question would be , how do you define “ repentance”—— the repentance that Saves.....
We can't tell the motive of the heart, though sincerity seems detectable, so we can't say what was in Judas' mind when he took his own life (or even if that act was accomplished by another cohabiting spirit.) All we know for certain is that Judas is identified by scripture as a son of perdition (destruction. )
 

Ferris Bueller

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I think the Bible shows that Judas was a sincere Repenter...his remorse and sorrow for his sins were so sincere that he even returned his ill- gotten gold to the ones that gave it to him....his sorrow and guilt were so sincere and extreme, he could not stand it, and he had to kill himself...in a way, Judas was the “ King” of Repenters....I must ask respectfully —— is he “ IN? The bigger question would be , how do you define “ repentance”—— the repentance that Saves.....
As Paul says, it's the difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow. One leads to salvation. One does not. But both are sorrow over sin and it's penalty.