Matthew 18 - Is Jesus Lying Or Are You Lying?

[GracePeace]

I have not speculated, nor errored.

Forgiveness of sins is unto both the living and the dead, but all are not living.

You didn't answer the issue.

If Christ says this parable pertains to His followers all over the world, are you saying we're forgiven, but not saved, as you insist was the case with the unforgiving servant, (so that even if God rescinds forgiveness it doesn't mean loss of salvation)?

 

[ScottA]

You didn't answer the issue.

If Christ says this parable pertains to His followers all over the world, are you saying we're forgiven, but not saved, as you insist was the case with the unforgiving servant, (so that even if God rescinds forgiveness it doesn't mean loss of salvation)?

Now you really got things mixed up. No wonder you're squirming so much.

Do I have to draw you a picture?

This is the world: 0​

​

This is heaven: 0 (only vastly bigger)​

​

Sins are in the world.​

​

The saved are in heaven (seated in heavenly places).​

​

Therefore I have told you that you are mixing darkness with light--not rightly dividing the word of truth, and thus preaching a false doctrine.​

...Hello?

 

[GracePeace]

Now you really got things mixed up. No wonder you're squirming so much.

Do I have to draw you a picture?

This is the world: 0​

​

This is heaven: 0 (only vastly bigger)​

​

Sins are in the world.​

​

The saved are in heaven (seated in heavenly places).​

​

Therefore I have told you that you are mixing darkness with light--not rightly dividing the word of truth, and thus preaching a false doctrine.​

...Hello?

Squirming? That's what I see you doing.

I stand by all I said.
You disagree.
I accept that you are another who calls Jesus "liar".

Not interested in any further discussion with you.

Next!

 

[GracePeace]

Now you really got things mixed up. No wonder you're squirming so much.

Do I have to draw you a picture?

This is the world: 0​

​

This is heaven: 0 (only vastly bigger)​

​

Sins are in the world.​

​

The saved are in heaven (seated in heavenly places).​

​

Therefore I have told you that you are mixing darkness with light--not rightly dividing the word of truth, and thus preaching a false doctrine.​

...Hello?

Your Einstein book is rated 2.7 out of 5 stars. I trust that rating. The mind producing the gobbledygook here could not have produced anything better elswhere. Your peers have spoken.

Eat less cheeseburgers.

 

[Kabone]

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life" (John 6:47).​

I read that and I just think I need to walk the path. What I get from the OP was that some believe that once you are saved, it’s done. It won’t matter what you do after that you’re still going to the promised land. I can’t recall where such is written.
I’ve read posts where it’s argued everyone goes to heaven saved or not, but this is a bit different.

 

[Cyd]

Jesus says that someone who is forgiven their sins through Christ's sacrifice can sin in such a way as to have that forgiveness rescinded, so that such a person ends up being thrown in hell.

For those who argue salvation can't be lost, or that being born of God can't be undone, tell me: are you the liar, or is Jesus the liar?

Matthew 18
23Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.f 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.

26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.g He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’

29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’

30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.

31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.

32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

Ok I don't get it... none of the debtor parable has anything to me to do with hell and lake of fire... it didn't make this list:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To me this parable was given because of the teaching of the Lords prayer... debtor:

Mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

We to me are given a defining list for hell.. and debt isn't there.

 

[GracePeace]

Ok I don't get it... none of the debtor parable has anything to me to do with hell and lake of fire... it didn't make this list:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To me this parable was given because of the teaching of the Lords prayer... debtor:

Mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

We to me are given a defining list for hell.. and debt isn't there.

Lol debt is sin

 

[ScottA]

Squirming? That's what I see you doing.

I stand by all I said.
You disagree.
I accept that you are another who calls Jesus "liar".

Not interested in any further discussion with you.

Next!

Then you and I are done. I leave you to your own beliefs.

 

[ScottA]

I read that and I just think I need to walk the path. What I get from the OP was that some believe that once you are saved, it’s done. It won’t matter what you do after that you’re still going to the promised land. I can’t recall where such is written.
I’ve read posts where it’s argued everyone goes to heaven saved or not, but this is a bit different.

The dilemma is intentional. Everyone must choose. When that decision is finished God takes it from there and makes good on His promise either way. That is what the world is, it is the valley of decision.

You have seen and witnessed this even here.

What is of debate here, although it is not debatable, but often misunderstood, is that God has appointed our whole lifetime for making that decision. In which case, some do so half heartedly only to go back to finish what they did not fully commit to. Some never finish. These are as seed sown on rocky soil. Some only finish at the very end. Others commit fully without reservations remaining in their heart, and God is good to see them through the remaining struggles of this world until the end. Paul referred to these as those who are "alive and remain." Alive in God, but remaining in the world and in the flesh. These are those who pass directly from death to life everlasting, as seed sown in good soil.

Such is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[Cyd]

Lol debt is sin

Laughing at me...well maybe since you can't explain what I posted.. you can explain to me this verse and the meaning.

Luke 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

 

[GracePeace]

Laughing at me...well maybe since you can't explain what I posted.. you can explain to me this verse and the meaning.

Luke 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

I laughed bc it seemed comical that you would have an issue seeing the debt referred to as sin... and sinners go to torment.

 

[Cyd]

I laughed bc it seemed comical that you would have an issue seeing the debt referred to as sin... and sinners go to torment.

yes i know why you laughed but just so happens neither of the words you put debt or sin neither are in the list I posted for lake of fire.