Luke 14:15-24 Rapture Before Great Tribulation

[JesusIsFaithful]

To me this is a truly profound statement, and one which almost no one I have met during the past decades, have had a clue about........While obviously we have to dismiss any notion of this applying in any way to a uniting in the flesh, we do need to get to know Him as this very image...Our lover ! Our betrothed, our Husband to be....But even more, we need to realize that our Father also sees is from this viewpoint....He loves us so very much but had been mostly separated from us all those millennia, because of what the first Adam did, so when the last Adam made it possible for Him to be with us again, it must have truly been a massive celebration in Heaven and our Father must have been so pleased.......But how many are willing to get that up close and personal with God, while here in the flesh ? Religion has largely made people afraid of God, afraid of displeasing Him, of not being enough and so on, thus not letting go of the flesh.....We truly have so very much to learn, and the first step is to acknowledge that...:)

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.....12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit......

Maybe the Lord will wake some up to the truth in that christianity is not about getting highs from the spirit, but resting in Jesus Christ as filled since they were saved by believing in Him to be witnesses of the Good News to man and not something else in His name where wayward believers glory in themselves for experiencing something that the "average believer" are not. As it is, those who preach the extra are no longer sharing that testimony of 1 Corinthians 12:13 for they are all had another drink and still having another drink wherein they glory in themselves at the expense of others.

Pride comes before the fall....so in no way is the Holy Spirit behind any ego tripping supernatural event that does not profit the body withal, but a select few in exalting them above others in the body of Christ for that "special" rapture as described by "ByGrace".

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Hmmm...

You are out of context. Jesus spoke to and of those of Israel of that time, to whom He had come, and whom did not receive Him according to the promises given to Israel.

That was Jesus telling them that He would therefore invite the gentiles to take part in the "supper", which is the "harvest" which began before that "wicked generation" slept (died).

Thus, the "great tribulation" was what became of that "wicked generation" which was taken up by Christ. For, what could be greater than the tribulation placed upon Him for all generations on that great and horrible day? Can there be any greater tribulation than "all", which He himself bore?

Read the second post in this thread as Luke continues with what Jesus had said by expounding that point of truth to the multitude later on that proves He was addressing believers of those who seek to be abiding in Him as His disciples. Notice how the cost of discipleship means being ready to give up everything and everyone they love to go be with Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Then read post # 3 & #4 & #5 as Jesus had broached that topic again.

I understand what you are saying in how you were applying it, but Israel did not have a place at the reception table when they are not friends with the King in the first place to receive that invitation when they are not believers. This invitation going out abroad as a result was to point out to believers that there is a danger to be ensnared by the cares of life that they will be excusing themselves for like Lot's life, they loved their lives on earth more than Him.

 

[ScottA]

Read the second post in this thread as Luke continues with what Jesus had said by expounding that point of truth to the multitude later on that proves He was addressing believers of those who seek to be abiding in Him as His disciples. Notice how the cost of discipleship means being ready to give up everything and everyone they love to go be with Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Then read post # 3 & #4 & #5 as Jesus had broached that topic again.

I understand what you are saying in how you were applying it, but Israel did not have a place at the reception table when they are not friends with the King in the first place to receive that invitation when they are not believers. This invitation going out abroad as a result was to point out to believers that there is a danger to be ensnared by the cares of life that they will be excusing themselves for like Lot's life, they loved their lives on earth more than Him.

I got all that...but He himself said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

So, then, you have made a doctrine of what never was, nor shall ever be.

 

[bbyrd009]

I got all that...but He himself said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

So, then, you have made a doctrine of what never was, nor shall ever be.

at least until you get a valid definition of "Israel," (which is also why "It is not as though God's word had failed..." is the preamble, i guess)
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

and then you are free to see why Christ went and stayed with certain "Samaritans" for days, completely negating what you Quoted, at least apparently, right

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I got all that...but He himself said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

So, then, you have made a doctrine of what never was, nor shall ever be.

Would what you had done be akin to applying it to another false notion that the gospel was never supposed to go to the Gentiles?

So then, when that guy said about eating in the kingdom of Heaven, Jesus was not talking about down here on earth, now was He?

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

So in response to that guy's statement, it was about eating in Heaven and thus pertaining to that future event when believers abiding in Him shall, but not every one will come because they prefer their life down here rather than leave to eat at the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

 

[ScottA]

and then you are free to see why Christ went and stayed with certain "Samaritans" for days, completely negating what you Quoted, at least apparently, right

Not negating, but confirming it - that not having been received by Israel, He took measures toward the "other fold." And then sent Paul.

 

[ScottA]

Would what you had done be akin to applying it to another false notion that the gospel was never supposed to go to the Gentiles?

So then, when that guy said about eating in the kingdom of Heaven, Jesus was not talking about down here on earth, now was He?

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

So in response to that guy's statement, it was about eating in Heaven and thus pertaining to that future event when believers abiding in Him shall, but not every one will come because they prefer their life down here rather than leave to eat at the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Jesus spoke to Israel of what they missed, which was not the marriage supper, but rather the reaping of the harvest for which they were employed but did not reap. That harvest was not limited to Israel however, but was a blessing for every nations and tribes throughout all the world. This was the promise to Abraham.

So, no, the gospel was indeed always meant to go to the gentiles as well as to Israel.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Jesus spoke to Israel of what they missed, which was not the marriage supper, but rather the reaping of the harvest for which they were employed but did not reap. That harvest was not limited to Israel however, but was a blessing for every nations and tribes throughout all the world. This was the promise to Abraham.

So, no, the gospel was indeed always meant to go to the gentiles as well as to Israel.

But Jesus wasn't talking about the gospel in how one enters into the kingdom of heaven, but about how His people, saved believers, will not eat in the kingdom of Heaven because they love their lives more on earth. Jesus was answering the man's statement about how those are blessed for eating in the kingdom of heaven. Not about entering, but eating; hence the Marriage Supper is the King's Supper.

I can only hope the Lord will reveal that to you in His own time as He was talking about that rapture again in those other references in the next 4 posts from that OP in why BELIEVERS are to be not only ready to be found abiding in Him but be willing to leave or else.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not negating, but confirming it - that not having been received by Israel, He took measures toward the "other fold." And then sent Paul.

ah, well the prob there is, Jesus went right back to Jerusalem, so this "not having been received by Israel" has yet to commence at that point,

1After this, a Jewish festival took place, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 5, quite early in His ministry iow. The 5000 have not even been fed yet

 

[pia]

@JesusIsFaithful...All I was going to write was " Jesus is faithful"...Then I saw your call name....so what, do you believe He is only faithful to some ? Do you think our meager efforts are going to undo all that He did ?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful...All I was going to write was " Jesus is faithful"...Then I saw your call name....so what, do you believe He is only faithful to some ? Do you think our meager efforts are going to undo all that He did ?

Undo the foundation laid by Jesus Christ? No, but will works of iniquity that deny Him remain on that foundation? No. So what is the consequence for unrepentant iniquity?

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So if our bodies is the temple of the Holy Spirit, then excommunication at the pre great tribulation rapture event will leave a saved unrepentant believer behind to suffer a physical death unless the saved believer repents by calling on Him for help so that the brethren will no longer live in sin.

Revelations 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Those abiding in Him by His grace & by His help shall be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven.

Those not found abiding in Him or those that love their lives down here more than Him shall be left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not looking to Him for help to get ready by discerning and departing from iniquity as well as not be snared by the cares of this life and their loved ones that they would not want to leave.

So like Esau & the prodigal son, saved believers can give up their inheritance of being of the firstfruits of the resurrection to be of those that are Christ's at His coming. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over that loss, but God will perform a miracle to get them past that loss by wiping the tears from the eyes of those left behind saints coming out of the great tribulation. May God cause the increase for I cannot.

Even former believers are called to repent.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[Phoneman777]

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

You all know how bad it will be at the end of the great tribulation and so who is Jesus talking to here? Who was invited by Him that had a place at the table BUT were excusing themselves from attending the King's Supper for the everyday cares of life? What christian would be tempted to do that at the end of the great tribulation as oppressive and terrible as it will be towards the end? How can any christian have the means to buy and sell, let alone own anything when they need the mark of the beast in order to buy & sell?

The times we are living in now... before the great tribulation... is what Jesus is warning the believers to not love this life more than Him to be like Lot's wife in not wanting to depart.

Oh yeah. There is a rapture coming before the great tribulation and many christians will love their lives on earth to not be willing to leave their lives & loved ones behind.

Jesus's warning is hardly applying towards the end of the great tribulation, so you all better be asking Jesus to help you be willing to go at a moment's notice and not just for help to be found abiding in Him, because no unrepentant workers of iniquity will be taken either. Those unrepentant saints left behind will be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House; 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & 1 Peter 4:17-19 so get ready to go now.

The Rapture is when the resurrected and yet alive Saints are "caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air", followed by massive global destruction, so nothing will be going on down here afterward. The problem with Futurism aka "Left Behind Theology" is that it fills the future of Earth with constant human activity, while wholly ignoring the countless verses that depict a completely destroyed Earth, devoid of all human life for a period of time until the creation of the New Earth.

 

[Copperhead]

Whatever....
I too was speaking of the great tribulation and the false 'escape' doctrine.

Well... there seems to be several passages in the OT that support that "false escape doctrine". Maybe in ways that out do anything in the NT. And therein lies the crux of the issue. The Torah specifies that two witnesses are required to confirm an issue. We have those... the OT and the NT. The Bereans were commended by the Holy Spirit for searching the scriptures daily to see if what Paul taught them was true. The only Scriptures they had at that time was the OT.

And the NT and OT are in agreement that there will be a removal of the righteous before the Great Tribulation.

 

[Copperhead]

The Rapture is when the resurrected and yet alive Saints are "caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air", followed by massive global destruction, so nothing will be going on down here afterward. The problem with Futurism aka "Left Behind Theology" is that it fills the future of Earth with constant human activity, while wholly ignoring the countless verses that depict a completely destroyed Earth, devoid of all human life for a period of time until the creation of the New Earth.

Really? Then who are those that are alive on the earth, procreating and dying, when the Messiah is reigning for 1000 years after He returns? Who are those nations that will be punished by having rain withheld from their land for failing to go to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles annually? (Zech 14) And what of the new Temple and sacrifices being offered, including the most detailed layout of the temple in Scripture including dining facilities, dormitory facilities, and bathing facilities, as expounded on by Ezekiel in several chapters of his book?

And this all is prior to the earth being destroyed when Ha Satan is released at the end of the thousand years and is able to foment another rebellion on the earth (Revelation 20 / Psalm 2) which is the last one the Lord will deal with. At that time, then the earth is destroyed and the Lord will create a new heaven and new earth.

I'll lay one on you and see how you respond. How many times is there a removal of the righteous ("rapture" if you will) in scripture? Hint, hint... more than one. And more than one following Yeshua's resurrection Himself.

 

[charity]

We are living in dangerous times, doctrinally, I believe, and need to take care what we imbibe.The need to have the Berean spirit has never been greater.

'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'
(Act 17:11)

I have not had time to take in the content of the opening posts, search through, or confirm the scripture references given, nor question the interpretation given to them, but when, or if, I do, I will do so guardedly.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grams]

Well !

We are still here........

Only one [ " GOD " ] would know when the time is come...........

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

The Rapture is when the resurrected and yet alive Saints are "caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air", followed by massive global destruction, so nothing will be going on down here afterward. The problem with Futurism aka "Left Behind Theology" is that it fills the future of Earth with constant human activity, while wholly ignoring the countless verses that depict a completely destroyed Earth, devoid of all human life for a period of time until the creation of the New Earth.

Care to share a few of those countless verses that depict that since you seem to have no clear rebuttal to the scriptural references in the OP nor the following 4 posts. As it is, in according to your application, Jesus was wasting His breath when warning believers that they are at risk for being left behind if they were not found abiding in Him but in iniquity or found themselves unwilling to leave because they love their lives on earth more .

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

We are living in dangerous times, doctrinally, I believe, and need to take care what we imbibe.The need to have the Berean spirit has never been greater.

'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'
(Act 17:11)

I have not had time to take in the content of the opening posts, search through, or confirm the scripture references given, nor question the interpretation given to them, but when, or if, I do, I will do so guardedly.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

We should all pray for one another as well as for ourselves for proving all things in any discussion as only God can cause the increase.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 

[Copperhead]

I will give you one passage form the OT that confirms a removal of the righteous, or "rapture", though I could give you several more form the OT. Virtually all of Isaiah 26, which I suggest one starts at v1, but especially....

Isaiah 26:19-21 (NKJV) Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

And contrast verse 20 with John 14:2....

John 14:2 (NKJV) In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Chambers in the Isaiah passage and Mansions in the John passage have equivalent meanings from the Hebrew and Greek.

Notice that it is not during or after the Lord punishes the earth and those who have rejected Him, but before. Now it is true that the Great Tribulation is indeed the second 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel, so one might be able to quibble a little over whether a removal is pre 70th week or mid 70th week, but there is no room for putting the removal after the mid point. But many passages in both the OT and NT would suggest a pre-70th week. Phrases like "thief in the night" and such that would suggest no prior warning about the removal. And other verses that suggest that the removal or departure must occur before the False Messiah can be revealed. And he has to be revealed early in the 70th week to confirm the covenant with Israel so that he will later break it at the mid point of that 7 years or 70th week.

And there is a minimum of 3 distinct rapture events between Yeshua's resurrection (not one of these) and the end.

And there are other references in the Psalms, Zechariah, Zephaniah, etc. Decidedly more passages in the OT than in the NT regarding the removal of the righteous. But then there are more passages about all of these things, including the 1000 year reign of Messiah, in the OT that one can ever find in the NT, including Revelation. Of the 404 verses in Revelation, there are over 800 references to OT passages. And yet, very few people actually take the time to do their end times research from the OT.

Imagine, dismissing 2/3rds of the Bible in researching end times. Not surprising really. Sad, but not surprising.

 

[bbyrd009]

And there is a minimum of 3 distinct rapture events between Yeshua's resurrection (not one of these) and the end.

what's particularly sad imo is that ppl do not acknowledge that Jesus walked the earth in "these last days" as well, and that your "3 raptures" are actually spiritual states of growth, that are accomplished while you live. Rapture came from "women" in Ezekiel, and was most recently revived by a "woman" whose name we still have access to, i won't bother to look it up, Mary something or other i think.

"Fly like birds, ensnare your soul" seems pretty clear from Ezekiel, i guess

ppl who seek answers about tomorrow are deceived, as Scripture plainly illustrates, in many places.
Not that oracles are any less popular today than they ever were, i guess