Lucifer AKA Satan

[3 Resurrections]

Only One Kind of Angels!

That is incorrect. Among the angelic hosts of heaven there are the cherubim, the seraphim, and those who were called "chief princes" (like Michael in Daniel 10:13). Of that hierarchy of angelic order, there were some who fell into various sins over time. Satan the "anointed cherub" who had been in the Garden of Eden was originally created perfect, but who then fell when "iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). Over time, Satan the "anointed cherub" eventually drew a third of the angels along with him (as in Rev. 12:4). These fallen members of the angelic hosts waged war against Michael "one of the chief princes" and his angels (Rev. 12:7-12) until the ascending Christ arrived in heaven and annulled Satan as the "accuser of the brethren".

If there were only "one kind of angel" as you suppose, there would have been no opposing angelic forces to wage war against Michael and his angels in heaven. If there were only one kind of angel, there would have been no "host of high ones that are on high" which were going to be punished by being imprisoned and then destroyed (Isaiah 24:21-23).

For there to be "elect angels", as Paul taught Timothy, these only had that "elect" designation because they were chosen to remain faithful to their Creator out of the rest of the angels who fell into sin of one sort or another.

 

[face2face]

That is incorrect. Among the angelic hosts of heaven there are the cherubim, the seraphim, and those who were called "chief princes" (like Michael in Daniel 10:13). Of that hierarchy of angelic order, there were some who fell into various sins over time. Satan the "anointed cherub" who had been in the Garden of Eden was one of those who was originally created perfect but who fell when "iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). Over time, Satan the "anointed cherub" eventually drew a third of the angels along with him (as in Rev. 12:4). These fallen members of the angelic hosts waged war against Michael "one of the chief princes" and his angels (Rev. 12:7-12).

If there were only "one kind of angel" as you suppose, there would have been no opposing angelic forces to wage war against Michael and his angels in heaven.

For there to be "elect angels", as Paul taught Timothy, these only had that "elect" designation because they were chosen to remain faithful to their Creator out of the rest of the angels who fell into sin of one sort or another.

I can see what you are avoiding 3R - its not looking so good for you cherry picking these posts.

The above fails to show your "NOT ELECT" theory from your Timothy reference.

The issue I'm finding 3R is you are skipping stones across a lake thinking you are drawing points together but totally disregarding the context of these passages.

We have found you're ignoring the questions on Ezek 28 which will lead you into truth - why don't you honestly deal with these first before firing your bullets at the Timothy, Revelation, John and Genesis?

Slow down! Read with care - ask questions of the Word and allow it to teach you.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections stay within the Ezekiel 28 and lets first get your understanding right here then we can move onto other passages.

You still have important questions to answer about the CONTEXT of the lament being Ezek 28:11-12

You need to acknowledge honestly that the context of the Lament in Ezek 28 is directed at the King of Tyre.

This discussion is all about honesty now - if you can't engage at that level you best move on.

The word of the Lord came to me: 28:12 “Son of man, sing a lament for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says: Eze 28:11–12.

Self explanatory is this...what is not is the symbolic language God adopts and the key to unlocking this is currently not in your possession.

Making this stand is important as failure here will mean failure for your understanding in other areas of Scripture.

From this we can build upon a true foundation.

F2F

 

[3 Resurrections]

Self explanatory is this...what is not is the symbolic language God adopts and the key to unlocking this is currently not in your possession.

Making this stand is important as failure here will mean failure for your understanding in other areas of Scripture.

From this we can build upon a true foundation.

What is self-explanatory is that there is no way possible for the "MAN" called the "Prince of Tyre" in the Ezekiel 28:1-10 prophecy to be the same character as the "ANOINTED CHERUB" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 who was also called the "Prince of Tyre". Both characters died totally different deaths by totally different means. These are two different created species altogether.

If you can't figure out those completely different distinctions between those two characters, then we truly don't have a common basis for a discussion.

 

[face2face]

What is self-explanatory is that there is no way possible for the "MAN" called the "Prince of Tyre" in the Ezekiel 28:1-10 prophecy to be the same character as the "ANOINTED CHERUB" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 who was also called the "Prince of Tyre".

So is this you acknowledging that the context in Ezek 28:11-12 is incorrect and the Prophet & God Himself got this wrong?

I just need to you openly state this as I believe this will sure up in your own mind your preference for the teachings of men over the teaching of God. You can then be on your way, unteachable in the things of God.

Both characters died totally different deaths by totally different means. These are two different created species altogether.

Here you are jumping the gun so to speak - as per above you don't have knowledge (key) to make such a statement.

If you can't figure out those completely different distinctions between those two characters, then we truly don't have a common basis for a discussion.

This is your only way of escape 3 R - failure on your part to answer the questions presented followed by gross uniformed assumptions leading you to a solidified position of error.

Here is what will offer.

If at anytime in the future you grow tired of the lies and desire a deeper substance feel free to send me a message! Happy to show how to read, interpret and understand the amazing taunt / lament of God toward the Prince of Tyre.

The seed is planted and only God can give the increase.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@everyone

So what have we observed with 3R is whats called "confirmation bias";it's the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's beliefs or values.

3R approached Ezekiel 28 with false ideas - notions which have been placed in their mind maybe from a child and now this section of text is tainted through these false beliefs.

The Context is set in stone - etched that it cannot be erased.

The word of the Lord came to me: 28:12 “Son of man (Ezekiel), sing a lament for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says: Ezek 28:11–12.

First of all what follows is a song (Sing a Lament) concerning what God has done for this King and what judgements will follow.

The context of chaps 26–28 and the stated subject, “concerning the king of Tyre,” make it crystal clear that the message here regards the literal king of Tyre.

Keep in mind Ezekiel began this prophetical section with a funeral lament for the city of Tyre in Ezek 27:1–36, calling attention to its materialism, pride, and self-sufficiency. He then moved to a discussion of the king of Tyre presenting his arrogance and self-will in Ezek 28:1–19

So why is there a problem with interpreting what follows (13-19)?

Well, it's because the song and its highly symbolic imagery is largely unknown to Christians today as they are not able to one, go back and understand the first audience and two, they overlay false ideas on the text to arrive at a confirmed bias i.e fallen angel theology.

3R cannot disagree that verses 11-12 clearly state the correct context, however due to not having the knowledge to unlock the true meaning of the lament, they are forced into a corner where they must uphold their own paradigm, otherwise their building of faith and knowledge, falls over.

This is why it's important to start with humility and honesty - it's a teachable mindset which I once had to practice in relation to this text. I'm extremely thankful I was challenged and able to gain a fuller understanding of this passage.

The danger of what has happened here is happening in this forum all the time over and over and its important to highlight as no one wants to remain in a place of ignorance forever.

What I know is 3R will be questioning their approach and understanding to this text - a good thing! The next important step is to lean outward and seek change - you can't move forward if you are chained with error.

I'll be interested to see if others are quick to accept verses 11-12 and "come out" so to speak.

F2F

 

[3 Resurrections]

So is this you acknowledging that the context in Ezek 28:11-12 is incorrect and the Prophet & God Himself got this wrong?

Of course not. I am saying that YOU are misinterpreting the whole chapter of Ezekiel 28. If you can't tell that scripture is giving us different prophecies for both a "Man" and an "anointed cherub" in this chapter, then no one can help you if you are determined to believe otherwise.

 

[face2face]

Of course not. I am saying that YOU are misinterpreting the whole chapter of Ezekiel 28. If you can't tell that scripture is giving us different prophecies for both a "Man" and an "anointed cherub" in this chapter, then no one can help you if you are determined to believe otherwise.

We have established you don't understand how the anointed Cherub relates to the Prince of Tyre, and further more, you are unwilling to learn.

This is the situation you have placed yourself in! All commentaries acknowledge the Lament is for the Prince of Tyre - a starting position you are not able to admit/accept.

The issue is firmly with you and not the text!

Once you are able to approach the text with honesty we can move forward.

F2F

 

[face2face]

What is self-explanatory is that there is no way possible for the "MAN" called the "Prince of Tyre" in the Ezekiel 28:1-10 prophecy to be the same character as the "ANOINTED CHERUB" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 who was also called the "Prince of Tyre".

On one hand it is disappointing for a Bible Student to make such a claim, but on the other, its another important lesson for those reading this exchange.

As soon as you say "its not possible" you are closing your mind to the possibilities.

If knowing God is accepting Him at His Word then Deut 29:29 should be your starting place.

“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things which are revealed and disclosed belong to us and to our children forever, so that we may do all of the words of this law.

If you deem "secret things" to be impossible, how will you ever know Him? Or be able to pass those things on to others? If God revealed to you what is possible, and you deem it impossible, what does that say about "how" you approach Him, His Word further more His Secrets?

It's all very telling.

F2F

 

[The Learner]

Hands off the Old Testament as you don't have an origin story for your fallen angel. Some Christians try to use obscure passages in Ezekiel and Isaiah but very quickly discover they have no means of proving all the fanciful notions they try to force on the text. Some may try and use Job but after three chapters the adversary is gone! Powerless as they might be - POOF nothing...who was the adversary? Well, maybe an angel wanting to know why God favored Job? Maybe a jealous believer wanting God to test Job - certainly not a fallen angel having peaceable conversations in Gods' realm - ridiculous!

Whats left? An animal God made who was more cunning that the other beasts of the field?

Problems abound everywhere - most run from the discussion, some become easily offended others try to prove the images in their mind are actually real only to find they were sold a lie! But how do they reconcile all these words in the NT and how to learn each in their own context?

And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” Acts 8:31

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On the sixth day of creation, God declared everything to be “very good” (Genesis 1:31). We assume the “everything” includes angels. Sometime after that, Satan rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Jesus witnessed the event: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18)—an event that the Lord uses to explain the exorcisms performed by the 72 (verse 17).

Another passage that also seems to describe the fall of Satan from heaven is Isaiah 14:12–15. The context is primarily about a human king, as judgment is pronounced against Babylon. The poetic language used by Isaiah is so grand, however, that many scholars have concluded that there is more to the passage. References to “the whole earth” (Isaiah 14:7), the king’s “fall from heaven” (verse 12), his desire to exalt himself “above the stars” (verse 13), and the symbolic name Lucifer or Light-bringer (verse 12) are all expressions of hyperbolic greatness. If the intended subject is only the human king of Babylon, then everything is figurative (and greatly exaggerated); however, if there is a secondary spiritual character in view, then the descriptions could be quite literal. God is pronouncing judgment on both “kings of Babylon”—the human king and the spiritual potentate who empowers him (Babylon being a symbol of rebellion from Genesis to Revelation). The wonderment of Isaiah 14:12 (“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”) could indeed have a dual interpretation.

Further, the book of the Revelation describes “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1). This “star” is given a key to the bottomless pit and proceeds to release a horde of tormenting “locusts” (Revelation 9:2–11). While Revelation 9:1 is not a clear reference to Satan, it could be: the fact that the “star” that fell from heaven has a key (authority) is no problem, especially since he uses the key to unleash terror upon the earth.

So, the Bible explicitly and implicitly teaches that Satan fell from his position in heaven. But how do we know that one third of the angels also fell with him?

The passage that best supports the idea that Satan took one third of the angels with him in rebellion is Revelation 12:3–4. John sees a sign in heaven: “An enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.” John then relates that the dragon was hurled down to the earth and positively identifies it as “that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray” (Revelation 12:9). The dragon is not thrown to earth alone, however: “His angels were cast out with him” (verse 9). The angels that are ejected from heaven with Satan we associate with the “third of the stars” that the dragon’s tail swept from heaven to earth in verse 4.

If the “stars” of Revelation 12:4 are indeed a symbolic reference to Satan’s “angels” in verse 9, then what we have is a reference to the fall of a portion of the angels (the heavenly hosts) who followed Satan in his rebellion. Two thirds of the angels remained loyal to God and are called the “holy angels” in Scripture (e.g., Mark 8:38); one third of the original angels joined Satan and are called “unclean spirits” or “demons” today (e.g., Mark 9:25).

Did one third of the angels fall with Lucifer? | GotQuestions.org

Did one third of the angels fall with Lucifer? Does the Bible say how many angels rebelled with Satan, becoming the demons?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[The Learner]

Fallen Angels​

Jude 1:6 ESV / 475 helpful votes​

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

2 Peter 2:4 ESV / 464 helpful votes​

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Genesis 6:1-22 ESV / 395 helpful votes​

When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ...

Revelation 12:9 ESV / 324 helpful votes​

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Revelation 12:7-9 ESV / 250 helpful votes​

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

2 Corinthians 11:14 ESV / 228 helpful votes​

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

Ephesians 6:12 ESV / 211 helpful votes​

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Job 2:1 ESV / 197 helpful votes​

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

1 John 4:1 ESV / 192 helpful votes​

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Matthew 25:41 ESV / 191 helpful votes​

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jude 1:6-7 ESV / 175 helpful votes​

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

​

What Does the Bible Say About Fallen Angels?

Bible verses about Fallen Angels

www.openbible.info

 

[The Learner]

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT FALLEN ANGELS

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT FALLEN ANGELS. Fallen Angels Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Fallen Angels.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

What Does the Bible Say About Lucifer The Fallen Angel?

Bible verses about Lucifer The Fallen Angel

www.openbible.info

100 Bible Verses about Fallen Angels (KJV) | StillFaith.com

Here are 100 Bible verses about fallen angels, curated from both the Old and New Testaments of the Holy Bible, King James Version, arranged from most to least relevant.

stillfaith.com

Bible Verses about Rebellion of Satan and Angels

Jude 1:6And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under

www.cgg.org

 

[The Learner]

at least interresting discussion

 

[face2face]

On the sixth day of creation, God declared everything to be “very good” (Genesis 1:31). We assume the “everything” includes angels.

The Angels behold the face of God so "very good" is a far cry from understanding the Glory of Divine Nature.

F2F

 

[face2face]

2 Corinthians 11:14 ESV / 228 helpful votes
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

Thanks for this list Learner.

We have already dealt with many of the quotes referenced, but this one is interesting.

Who is the Adversary (satan) ?

Context:

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ 2 Co 11:13.

So the adversary here is a person that much is true, but who?

Rather than giving you the answer I will provide some helpful insights

Who were undermining the apostle Paul's influence in the Corinthian ecclesia? See 2 Cor 10:2, 10-18; 11:3-26

Answer here: ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections

INCREASED UNDERSTANDING OF GOD LEADS TO INCREASED RESPONSIBILITY

To understand Ezekiel 28 you need to understand a deeper context to the Prophecy.

The Tyre being spoken of in Chapter 27 / 28 had changed since the time of David. Then Hiram King of Tyre showed kindness in building David a house

11 And Hiram king of Tyre sent messengers to David, and cedar trees, also carpenters and masons who built David a house. 12 And David knew that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for the sake of his people Israel. 2 Sa 5:11–12.

Tyre back then enjoyed supplying men and material to build the temple for Solomon (see 1 Kings 5:5-12). Such was the love and co-operation for Yahweh's project. But now Tyre had become wealthy, proud, and arrogant (Ezek 28:24). Tyre had become a malicious neighbour to Israel and therefore the object of Yahweh's wrath.

First point in dealing with Ezekiel 28 is to understand how God speaks of the Prince, as though he was a Jew such was the immense privilege the Prince had in trading with Israel!

Consider the facts with me:

1. God says, "You will die the death of the uncircumcised at the hands of foreigners for I have spoken, declares the sovereign Lord" Eze 28:10.

It's figurative language was to show how horrible his death would be...indicates that they would be treated in a disgraceful manner - less than human, as gentiles were viewed back then!

2. Continuing with the figurative language in Ezek 36:35 God describes the land of Israel, as Eden. Of the king of Tyre, God says, "You were in Eden, the garden of God." (Ezek 28:13)

God allowed him access to His Garden (hedged about place) which His Eyes are always upon (Deuteronomy 11:12)

3. This point is highly interesting because the prince is adorned with nine out of twelve precious stones worn on the breastplate of the high priest.

the ruby, topaz, and emerald, the chrysolite, onyx, and jasper, the sapphire, turquoise, and beryl; your settings and mounts were made of gold. Eze 28:13.

39:10 They set on it four rows of stones: a row with a ruby, a topaz, and a beryl—the first row; 39:11 and the second row, a turquoise, a sapphire, and an emerald; 39:12 and the third row, a jacinth, an agate, and an amethyst; 39:13 and the fourth row, a chrysolite, an onyx, and a jasper. They were enclosed in gold filigree settings. 39:14 The stones were for the names of the sons of Israel, twelve, corresponding to the number of their names. Each name corresponding to one of the twelve tribes was like the engravings of a seal. Ex 39:10–14.

Later in Ezek 28:14 we are told "You walked among the fiery stones." They were "stones of fire" because of the way they would shine when exposed to the brilliance of the Shekinah glory of the sanctuary. They symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel.

God allowed the Prince to walk amongst His Stones within the camps of Israel to honestly trade and create wealth from His People.

4. The Prince was anointed as a "guardian cherub, for so I ordained you." Again, such was the privilege that the Prince is spoken of as a Priest no different to those like Abraham, Samuel and many others who walk throughout the land. Ordainded and blessed by Yahweh but He treated this blessing with contempt.

5. "You were on the holy mount of God" (verse 14) Ezekiel 20:40 describes this holy mountain as being "The high mountain of Israel." Again, showing how the high places were open to the King of Tyre such was the blessing God placed on him.

6. "You sinned." (verse 16) The Prince became arrogant and full of pride and so as God has done throughout the prophecy he is teaching His People Israel that even a Gentile King with such privilege is responsible to His Laws.

The outcome for God's People listening to this taunt was for them hear Him and revere His Word and not to go a whoring after the Nations, which they sadly did.

The first audience understood the imagery of the...

a. The garden in Eden = Israel

b. The cherub = A Protected Prince

c. The Breast Plate and Stones = Israels Tribes

d. The Mountain of the Lord = God's Holiness

All these images brought together in one sublime Prophecy against the King of Tyre.

Now if you can provide literary context, historical context and supporting quotes to explain this chaptr in support of a fallen angel then by all means, provide it in your response.

In the Masters Service

F2F

 

[face2face]

Another interesting observation about Ezekiel 28 is how it relates to Nebuchadnezzar who also thought of himself as greater than God. He saw himself as the maker of Babylon – Dan 4:30 - and so he was punished for that! Likewise the king of Tyre is seen in the same way, and so is punished. In fact, the Prince of Tyre went a lot further than Neb! This man claimed divinity!

“I am a god; I sit in the seat of gods, in the heart of the seas”— Eze 28:2.

God could not allow such pride and arrogance to go unpunished and while Neb will eat grass like an animal the Prince's life would be taken.

The Divine Lamentation is crafted in verses 11-19 to show Israel what God was about to do and why.

As usual, only those with enlightened minds could decepher the lamentation and once completed they would know this was the Lord's doing.

F2F

 

[Behold]

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ 2 Co 11:13.

So the adversary here is a person that much is true, but who?

a few...

John Calvin
Mary Baker Eddy
Joseph Smith
All the Popes
Charles Taze Russell
Bahá'u'lláh
The NIV
Valentinus
Jerome
Dallas Jenkins (suspected)

 

[Runningman]

@3 Resurrections

Sorry to interject another thread into the debate but this is subject specific and came to mind upon reading something in the Holy book right now.

First... you had posted the following reply #1 to my question... at 3Rs~ A quick question about the binding of Satan.

I have made some text blue for emphasis.



I now am interrupting this to ask... In Luke 10:we read....

Verse 1 states "1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come." He had not been crucified as yet.

But in verse 18 we are told...

17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

FYI... The Peshitta... which I value as do you states it this way.

:18 Then he said to them, I saw him, Satana, when he fell as lightning from heaven.

(For me I was watching Satan fall carries a differing meaning tense wise then I saw him Satana, when he fell)

This was before your "that day was responsible casting Satan and his devils as the "accuser of the brethren" out of heaven and down to the earth" ....... Either Jesus was watching Satan presently falling or while he had fallen (Peshitta)

Excluding the Peshitta, I find this to be chronologically confusing..................


Nasb95 states John 12:12 reads 12 On the next day, when the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

Peshitta...12And the next day a great crowd which had come to the feast, when they heard that Yeshua had come to Jerusalem,

But it does not say for Satan has a short time... it is those who are being spoken to... vs 10

8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. 10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

Now I shall stop here because you know I do not agree with you on this... and this is just partially why.

Do you think Jesus could have been speaking of a vision with his words in Luke 10:18. Because it seems he is speaking in the present tense, but Revelation 12 says the war in heaven and the casting of the devil down to earth doesn't happen until before the beginning of the great tribulation. So if Jesus actually saw that the the great tribulation already happened. If Jesus had a prophetic vision then Satan doesn't seem to have actually fallen like lightning yet. Curious on yours or anyone's thoughts about this.

 

[face2face]

a few...

John Calvin
Mary Baker Eddy
Joseph Smith
All the Popes
Charles Taze Russell
Bahá'u'lláh
The NIV
Valentinus
Jerome
Dallas Jenkins (suspected)

You have the right idea...but you failed to search the Scriptures to find Paul's adversary. Your list might be yours ;)

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