Lucifer AKA Satan

[3 Resurrections]

Hands off the Old Testament as you don't have an origin story for your fallen angel.

Scripture gives us the origin story of the fallen angel called "the anointed cherub" which had been in Eden. I don't need to cook up a story. I have done quite a bit of study from scripture on the origin of devils and of their leader Satan. And of their demise as well back in the first century. And of the "divine council" of angels which God set up over the nations back in the days when He divided up the nations and put them under angelic oversight (the "Watchers" in Daniel).

And I do not find Ezekiel or Isaiah to be "obscure" at all on this point.

You sound as if you are of the group who sees all mentions of the "adversary" in Scripture as being only human adversaries. That position I find to be untenable as it cannot possibly be reconciled with all the various mentions of fallen celestial beings in scripture.

 

[face2face]

Scripture gives us the origin story of the fallen angel called "the anointed cherub" which had been in Eden. I don't need to cook up a story. I have done quite a bit of study from scripture on the origin of devils and of their leader Satan. And of their demise as well back in the first century.

The text you are referring to is found in Ezekiel 28 and relates to the King of Tyre. Do you understand the taunt? symbology? Do you need it explained?

You sound as if you are of the group who sees all mentions of the "adversary" in Scripture as being only human adversaries. That position I find to be untenable as it cannot possibly be reconciled with all the various mentions of fallen celestial beings in scripture.

The issue here is you are unable to prove such beings exist - its only found in your home made cook book and nowhere else. Happy for you to try.

F2F

 

[3 Resurrections]

The text you are referring to is found in Ezekiel 28 and relates to the King of Tyre. Do you understand the taunt? symbology? Do you need it explained?

No, I don't. I know very well who the human "Prince of Tyre" was in Ezekiel 28:1-10, and who the angelic "Prince of Tyre" was also in Ezekiel 28:11-19. These were two different "Princes" under discussion, with different deaths predicted for each of them. There were always evil angelic "Princes" working behind the scenes of those ancient empires and kingdoms, trying to disrupt God's plans of redemption for the nations - ultimately to no avail. They were members of the angelic "divine council" God had originally set up over the nations but who had fallen from their righteous status, and Satan was one of those members who had fallen from his originally-righteous condition.

The issue here is you are unable to prove such beings exist - its only found in your home made cook book and nowhere else.

If you have no regard for the scriptures related to this topic, then we don't really have a common basis for a discussion. I don't have a "cook book".

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections

Let me test your understanding for a second.

Explain why God would wait till Ezekiel's time (587 BCE) and during the reign of King Tyre to give a prophetical taunt against the King, but also inform them about something which is not described anywhere in the book and in the entire OT?

Thanks
F2F

 

[face2face]

No, I don't. I know very well who the human "Prince of Tyre" was in Ezekiel 28:1-10,

Ah good so you know the context of the chapter - that's a start.

and who the angelic "Prince of Tyre" was also in Ezekiel 28:11-19.

Right, so you are misinterpreting the symbol!

These were two different "Princes" under discussion, with different deaths predicted for each of them.

Only one - that's the point of the taunt!

There were always evil angelic "Princes" working behind the scenes of those ancient empires and kingdoms, trying to disrupt God's plans of redemption for the nations - ultimately to no avail.

You don't have a text for this anywhere in the OT!

They were fallen members of the angelic "divine council" God had originally set up over the nations, and Satan was one of those fallen members.

Again, angels only do the Will of God - that's Bible teaching!

If you have no regard for the scriptures related to this topic, then we don't really have a common basis for a discussion. I don't have a "cook book".

It's a cook book because you are using an inferred argument!

Nowhere in the chapter are the terms "devil" "satan", or "fallen angel" used.

Why in the taunt do you think the word Cherub is used in relation to the Prince?

Think about the reason for this taunt!

If you need help simply ask.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections

Let me ask you the same question again but with more clarity around the context.

In Ezekiel 26 and 27 you have the prophecy of the destruction of Tyre (we both agree on this!)

Today the site of ancient Tyre is like "the top of a rock . . . a place to spread nets upon" and has never been rebuilt as per Ezek. 26:14. (we both agree on this!)

The remainder of chapter 28 is a prophecy directed against Sidon and the future restoration of Israel. (we both agree on this!)

Why, in this context, would the prophet introduce a "revelation" about the origin of Satan?

Answer here:


F2F

 

[3 Resurrections]

inform them about something which is not described anywhere in the book and in the entire OT?

What "something" are you referring to?

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections

If your Satan is a rebel angel why is he called "a man"? in verse 2, 9?

 

[face2face]

What "something" are you referring to?

Your fallen angel.

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections

Does your Satan the devil really trade in riches - gold and silver? (Ezek 28:4, 5). Is not his concern for humans?

What will happen soon is you will start to question how these symbols relate to the Prince of Tyre and not some make believe fallen angel.

F2F

 

[3 Resurrections]

Only one - that's the point of the taunt!

No, there are most definitely two different deaths described in Ezekiel 28. For the human "Prince of Tyre", he would "die the death of the uncircumcised, by the hand of strangers" (Ez. 18:10).

For the angelic "Prince of Tyre", God said He would bring fire out of the midst of that creature who had once been "the anointed cherub" in Eden, and turn him to ashes upon the earth in the sight of men, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ez. 28:18-19).

You don't have a text for this anywhere in the OT!

Yes, I do, in the book of Daniel, for one thing, which describes an angelic "Prince of Persia" who was "withstanding" the angel who was trying to respond to Daniel's prayers. After 21 days of resistance, it took Michael, "one of the chief Princes" (of the divine council) to come to this angel's aid. Another "Prince of Grecia" was also coming on the scene shortly in Daniel 10:21 after Daniel's angel had left him.

For Daniel's entire statue made of different metals, there were human monarchs for each of those pagan empires, but also a fallen angelic "Prince" behind each of those empires, trying to foil God's plans for the coming of the Messiah. The entire statue of all the evil angelic "Princes" that had worked within each of those empires was destroyed simultaneously in AD 70, with the entire statue being broken to pieces all at one time by a single blow of Christ the "stone" kingdom.

Again, angels only do the Will of God - that's Bible teaching!

The "elect angels", yes, they do hearken unto their Maker. The angels who disobeyed and revolted - no, they don't. But all of those disobedient angels are dead by now, ever since AD 70. God destroyed them all, including their leader Satan. As well as all the unclean spirits which "passed out of the land" (Zech. 13:2).

If your Satan is a rebel angel why is he called "a man"? in verse 2, 9?

That is NOT Satan the "anointed cherub" in those verses. Everything in Ezekiel 28 in verses 1 through 10 truly IS related to the HUMAN "Prince of Tyre". The human "Prince of Tyre" truly did trade in riches which that city brought to him.

But everything from Ezekiel 28 verses 11 through 19 is related to the fallen angel Satan which God refers to by his former description as "the anointed cherub" who had been in Eden. There is a very, very specific reason why Satan was extremely interested in corrupting the human Prince of Tyre. It has to do with the millennium, as well as the "mark" of the ancient Sea Beast.

 

[face2face]

No, there are most definitely two different deaths described in Ezekiel 28. For the human "Prince of Tyre", he would "die the death of the uncircumcised, by the hand of strangers" (Ez. 18:10).

Since Jesus stated that angels do not die:

But those who are regarded as worthy to share in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 20:36 In fact, they can no longer die, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection Lk 20:35–36.

How is Satan to die "by the hand of strangers" in verse 10, to be devoured by fire and brought "to ashes" in verse 18, and "to be no more for ever" (verse 19)?

Let me point out now you are no longer misrepresenting the Word in Ezekiel you are now disregarding the Words of Christ.

For the angelic "Prince of Tyre", God said He would bring fire out of the midst of that creature who had once been "the anointed cherub" in Eden, and turn him to ashes upon the earth in the sight of men, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ez. 28:18-19).

Yes, you continue to have a problem not only with the text, but with Christ's very words.

If it's impossible for God's Divine Nature (i.e Angels) to die whose death is the text actually speaking of?

Yes, I do, in the book of Daniel, for one thing, which describes an angelic "Prince of Persia" who was "withstanding" the angel who was trying to respond to Daniel's prayers. After 21 days of resistance, it took Michael, "one of the chief Princes" (of the divine council) to come to this angel's aid. Another "Prince of Grecia" was also coming on the scene shortly in Daniel 10:21 after Daniel's angel had left him.

Yes, an obedient Angel!...the only Kind!

For Daniel's entire statue made of different metals, there were human monarchs for each of those pagan empires, but also a fallen angelic "Prince" behind each of those empires, trying to foil God's plans for the coming of the Messiah. The entire statue of all the evil angelic "Princes" that had worked within each of those empires was destroyed simultaneously in AD 70, with the entire statue being broken to pieces all at one time by a single blow of Christ the "stone" kingdom.

Quote please!

The "elect angels", yes, they do hearken unto their Maker. The angels who disobeyed and revolted - no, they don't. But all of those disobedient angels are dead by now, ever since AD 70.
God destroyed them all, including their leader Satan. As well as all the unclean spirits which "passed out of the land" (Zech. 13:2).

And also on that day,” says the Lord who rules over all, “I will remove the names of the idols from the land and they will never again be remembered. Moreover, I will remove the prophets and the unclean spirit (false teaching!) from the land. Zec 13:2.

Sorry where is your disobedient angels in this text?

This is a case in point how the infection in the mind pours out of your fingers onto your keyboard...its rife in this forum...your mind is sick with false teachings. The irony is this verse in Zech 13:2 is a real example of the teachers who infected your mind with false notions.

Disgusting and yes they will be punished!

That is NOT Satan the "anointed cherub" in those verses. Everything in Ezekiel 28 in verses 1 through 10 truly IS related to the HUMAN "Prince of Tyre". The human "Prince of Tyre" truly did trade in riches which that city brought to him.

Okay well that comforting to know you have chosen the first 10 verses to apply to the Prince of Tyre and the rest some misplaced revelation about your Satan

Convenient?

Why not try and study the whole taunt to see how it applies to the Prince rather than fabricating a false story?

But everything from Ezekiel 28 verses 11 through 19 is related to the fallen angel Satan which God refers to by his former title as "the anointed cherub" who had been in Eden.

Why would God see the Prince of Tyre as an anointed Cherub?

Let's see if we can get your cogs turning in the right direction shall we?

Think dear Watson! Think about the taunt and the use of these OT images! How can they relate to the Prince!

There is a very, very specific reason why Satan was extremely interested in corrupting the human Prince of Tyre. It has to do with the millennium, as well as the "mark" of the ancient Sea Beast.

Please 3R keep this conversation sensible and within the context of the Scripture - don't run away even further than you already have from the text.

But lets entertain your notion for a moment.

You expect me to swallow the notion that Ezekiel the Prophet was disclosing to Israel (Judah) details about Satan, a fallen angel, and the mark of the beast in the future millennium age?

The inflection is causing delirium.

If you seriously believe that you're best to walk away now because you are far from serious about learning the true meaning of the beautifully written taunt in Ezek 28.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@3 Resurrections

Lets talk about verse Ezek 28:13

You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering, the ruby, topaz, and emerald, the chrysolite, onyx, and jasper, the sapphire, turquoise, and beryl; your settings and mounts were made of gold. On the day you were created they were prepared.
Eze 28:13.

Firstly, what can you see as being somewhat odd about this verse? I've colour coded to assist you!

In figurative language which is what this taunt is consider the example of Pharaoh, king of Egypt who is depicted as being a cedar in Lebanon taller than any of the other trees of Eden (trees are used here symbolically for nations). Look up Ezek 31:2, 3, 8, 9, 16, 18). But this reference to Eden does not imply that Pharaoh must have lived contemporary with Adam and Eve, right?

Understanding this fact:- how is God using this imagery and in what way does it relate to the Prince of Tyre?

We understand the Garden of Eden represents the area in which the Prince traded (we must agree on this!)

But what of the stones?

Where have you read about these stones before?

Be interested to see if you can stay within Scripture and use knowledge which is already known to you.

F2F

 

[Kabone]

@3 Resurrections

Sorry to interject another thread into the debate but this is subject specific and came to mind upon reading something in the Holy book right now.

First... you had posted the following reply #1 to my question... at 3Rs~ A quick question about the binding of Satan.

I have made some text blue for emphasis.



I now am interrupting this to ask... In Luke 10:we read....

Verse 1 states "1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come." He had not been crucified as yet.

But in verse 18 we are told...

17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

FYI... The Peshitta... which I value as do you states it this way.

:18 Then he said to them, I saw him, Satana, when he fell as lightning from heaven.

(For me I was watching Satan fall carries a differing meaning tense wise then I saw him Satana, when he fell)

This was before your "that day was responsible casting Satan and his devils as the "accuser of the brethren" out of heaven and down to the earth" ....... Either Jesus was watching Satan presently falling or while he had fallen (Peshitta)

Excluding the Peshitta, I find this to be chronologically confusing..................


Nasb95 states John 12:12 reads 12 On the next day, when the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

Peshitta...12And the next day a great crowd which had come to the feast, when they heard that Yeshua had come to Jerusalem,

But it does not say for Satan has a short time... it is those who are being spoken to... vs 10

8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. 10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

Now I shall stop here because you know I do not agree with you on this... and this is just partially why.

A few questions on that timeline, and forgive me in advance as you didn’t actually write that timeline.
Who anointed him prince of the earth?
Who allowed him to go to earth freely to wreak havoc ?
He was bound in heaven for a while, but his demons were still allowed on earth to do bad?
And then was cast out of heaven for being bad down to earth to be more bad?
If he had no more chain binding and was roaming like a lion, how was he imprisoned?
Didn’t isaiah happen before Christ? So how is that related to satan’s fall after Christ?
Isn’t rev 2 about Babylon falling? Is Babylon the same as Jerusalem?
And just so I’m understanding correctly, for the past 1,954 years, and continuing to this day, there’s been no satan, no fallen angels, and no demons on earth?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The way Satan destroys faith is to lead you into a "doctrine of Devils"., that will "bewitch" you...

Satan's Theologies, like "Mary flew to heaven, in a dead body".. or Anything that Calvin teaches.... These teachings are anointed by the Devil, and they are like witchcraft....they "spellbind you.. They literally put you under their spiritual control that is what the NT defines as a "stronghold in the mind".
They literally blind your mind, so that you can't see Truth, that would instantly reveal the deception to you.

Reader, "doctrines of devils"... Hebrews 13:9, are Truth Blockers, regarding the word of God and regarding the correct understanding of Christian Spirituality.

This is to become "mind blinded by the Devil".

@Behold

Then Satan is still among us, correct? Or was 70AD the last?

 

[3 Resurrections]

But those who are regarded as worthy to share in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 20:36 In fact, they can no longer die, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection Lk 20:35–36.

Angels IN HEAVEN do not die. That is the "ELECT ANGELS" that Paul mentions in 1 Timothy 5:21. Those who are NOT the "elect angels" are NOT granted immunity from death. The Mark 12:25 quote of Jesus's words on this same subject in Luke 20:35-36 tells us the difference.
"For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

Yes, an obedient Angel!...the only Kind!

Obedient angels are NOT the only kind. The only reason why Paul mentions the distinction of the "elect angels" in 1 Timothy 5:21 is to separate them from the angels that are NOT ELECT. That means there definitely ARE disobedient angels that have rebelled against God and are in a fallen state compared to the angels in heaven that are preserved in a righteous status that can never die.

How is Satan to die "by the hand of strangers" in verse 10, to be devoured by fire and brought "to ashes" in verse 18, and "to be no more for ever" (verse 19)?

Satan did NOT "die by the hand of strangers". You keep missing the Ezekiel 28 separation between the two prophecies - one for the HUMAN "Prince of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28:1-10, and the next prophecy following in Ezekiel 28:11-19 for the ANGELIC "anointed cherub" Prince of Tyre who had been in Eden the garden of God.

An "anointed CHERUB" is a totally different creation than a "MAN". There is a clear division between Ezekiel's prophecies for each of these.
A death of the uncircumcised at the hand of "strangers" was destined for the MAN in Ezekiel 28:1-10.
A death by God bringing fire out of the midst of the ANOINTED CHERUB and burning him to ashes in Ezekiel 28:18-19 was a different manner of death entirely for a totally different kind of created being.

You expect me to swallow the notion that Ezekiel the Prophet was disclosing to Israel (Judah) details about Satan, a fallen angel, and the mark of the beast in the future millennium age?

Ezekiel was prophesying in the middle of the literal thousand-year millennium age which ended in AD 33. But that's another subject, so we don't need to delve into it here.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Who anointed him prince of the earth?

Adam and Eve. When they abdicated their own God-given dominion over the planet by obeying Satan's temptation, they essentially handed Satan the role of "Prince of this world". Scripture tells us "His servants ye are to whom ye yield yourselves to obey..." (Romans 6:16).

Who allowed him to go to earth freely to wreak havoc ?

God allowed Satan to be released from his millennial "chain" when the millennium was finished in AD 33 with the "First resurrection" of Christ the First-fruits and the Matthew 27:52-53, 144,000 "First-fruits" saints. Satan's release to once again deceive the nations was a judgment on those who had rejected God's Son. Christ had warned His own "wicked generation" that the unclean spirits which had been cast out of Judea's citizens would return with seven-fold numbers of devils more wicked than those which Christ and His disciples had been casting out. That wicked generation's "last state" was going to be worse than its "first state" when Christ's ministry had been casting out devils left and right in the cities of Judea (Matthew 12:43-45). This came to pass in the years from AD 66-70, especially in the city of Jerusalem itself which became a "prison for every unclean spirit" and "a habitation of devils" (Rev. 18:2).

He was bound in heaven for a while, but his demons were still allowed on earth to do bad?

Satan was never said to be bound in heaven. The millennial conditions were that Satan would not be able to deceive the nations during that literal thousand years. The abyss is a condition - not a specific location. And the millennial conditions did not say Satan would not attempt to deceive - just that he would have no success at it. The millennial conditions also do not say that mankind could not deceive themselves - just that Satan would not be able to have a part in deceiving the nations during that limited thousand-years of time. There is no mention whatever in scripture of what Satan's devils were restricted from doing during this thousand years of time.

And then was cast out of heaven for being bad down to earth to be more bad?

Satan lost the war in heaven against Michael and his angels on the occasion of Christ's resurrection-day ascension. Because of the blood of the Lamb, Satan lost his ability to accuse the brethren in heaven's "courtroom", and was "annulled" from having that power to accuse the saints of their sin-guilt (Hebrews 2:14). This enraged Satan, and once he was cast out down to the earth, he redoubled his efforts to deceive the nations once more for the "short time" he had left (the whole "walking about as a roaring lion" thing during the first century).

If he had no more chain binding and was roaming like a lion, how was he imprisoned?

Satan wasn't ever "imprisoned" in an actual location. Satan's deception of the nations was bound for the duration of that 1,000 years. The abyss is not a location that can be mapped or located. It is a non-functioning condition of something - just as Christ was in the abyss during those 3 days and 3 nights while His body lay dead in the grave in a non-functioning condition for a time (Romans 10:7).

Isn’t rev 2 about Babylon falling? Is Babylon the same as Jerusalem?

In Revelation, "Mystery Babylon" is the same as "that great city" where also our Lord was crucified / aka Jerusalem.

And just so I’m understanding correctly, for the past 1,954 years, and continuing to this day, there’s been no satan, no fallen angels, and no demons on earth?

None of those evil entities have been present on earth since God got rid of them all back in AD 70. The "powers of the heavens" were all shaken and REMOVED at that time, as Hebrews 12:26-27 predicted for that first-century generation. Other scripture texts also confirm this.

 

[face2face]

Angels IN HEAVEN do not die.

Cannot.

That is the "ELECT ANGELS" that Paul mentions in 1 Timothy 5:21. Those who are NOT the "elect angels" are NOT granted immunity from death. The Mark 12:25 quote of Jesus's words on this same subject in Luke 20:35-36 tells us the difference.
"For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

Only One Kind of Angels!

Obedient angels are NOT the only kind.

Only One Kind of Angels!

The only reason why Paul mentions the distinction of the "elect angels" in 1 Timothy 5:21 is to separate them from the angels that are NOT ELECT.

1 Timothy 5:21...Referring to the Witness of God's Heavenly Realm! Sorry where does it mention in 1 Timothy 5 the Angels are NOT ELECT?

That means there definitely ARE disobedient angels that have rebelled against God and are in a fallen state compared to the angels in heaven that are preserved in a righteous status that can never die.

The above means you are making a mockery of the text and are forcing non Biblical notions on the Word.

Satan did NOT "die by the hand of strangers". You keep missing the Ezekiel 28 separation between the two prophecies - one for the HUMAN "Prince of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28:1-10, and the next prophecy following in Ezekiel 28:11-19 for the ANGELIC "anointed cherub" Prince of Tyre who had been in Eden the garden of God.

Why did God use the imagery of an Anointed Cherub in reference to the Prince?

An "anointed CHERUB" is a totally different creation than a "MAN".

Correct! So I ask again, why would God use the imagery of a Cherub, Garden of Eden and the Breast Plate Stones concerning the Prince of Tyre?

Think 3R THINK!

There is a clear division between Ezekiel's prophecies for each of these.
A death of the uncircumcised at the hand of "strangers" was destined for the MAN in Ezekiel 28:1-10.
A death by God bringing fire out of the midst of the ANOINTED CHERUB and burning him to ashes in Ezekiel 28:18-19 was a different manner of death entirely for a totally different kind of created being.

Empty your mind of this false teaching and allow the Word of God to guide you into truth! At present you are forcing man-made notions upon it which is causing you all sorts of harm.

Do me a favour and these questions:

“ ‘You were the sealer of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:12.

Who is the You?

And why the past tense?

Remember verse 11 is clear!

The word of the Lord came to me: 28:12 “Son of man, sing a lament for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says: Eze 28:11–12.

So its a lament concerning the King of Tyre
Whatever is the nature of the lament its symbols must be relatable to the King of Tyre!

Now if you are unable to explain the lament in its revealed context what does that say about you method? You either import false teaching upon the text or you allow the text to teach you.

Which will it be?

F2F

Note: The Lament is given by God from God's perspective of the King and given in God's Imagery that the Children of Israel might understand His Will. You need to take far more care here 3R!

 

[face2face]

Ezekiel was prophesying in the middle of the literal thousand-year millennium age which ended in AD 33. But that's another subject, so we don't need to delve into it here.

No we wont "delve" into more error, as you have enough to deal with in Ezek 28 for now.

 

[face2face]

Adam and Eve. When they abdicated their own God-given dominion over the planet by obeying Satan's temptation, they essentially handed Satan the role of "Prince of this world". Scripture tells us "His servants ye are to whom ye yield yourselves to obey..." (Romans 6:16).

Firstly, the serpent with voice was made by God as part of the creative process (that the Lord God had made). He became a false accuser / deceiver because of this first lie.

You have misquoted Romans 6:16 as the context is clear: 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires Rom 6:12.

You are running roughshod over the Word...it's painful to watch.

So here is what has just happened.

You just misrepresented Genesis 3; John 14:30 & Romans 6:16... in one sentence without caring for or considering the context of each passage.

Context:

Genesis 3 - Carnal (animal) mind is given voice and adopted by the first pair
John 14:30 - What had power over Christ? Answer - Romans 6:9!
Romans 6:16 - Servants to the flesh! Don't allow your members to yield to its lusts!

Conclusion:

Your opening paragraph was a gross miss handling of the Word and failed on all counts to prove fallen angel theology and in fact provided you truth which you disregarded for lies. It's clear to me you are not skilled in the nuances of Gods Word and you need to learn how God teaches His Children.

F2F