Limited atonement !

[Rightglory]

All of them scriptures refer to His elect people. All the Father gave Him in election Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Another example of denying a clear teaching of scripture by simply omitting the text that would deny your whole theory of atonement and election.
I know you read John 6:40
Vss 39 is a incarnational verse, It aligns with Col 1:20. God gave all men to Christ by virtue of Christ being born as man, he assumed our human natures in order to raise them to life. Death to life, immortality.
Now, comes the verse that you need. Here is God's will.. "THAT EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IIN HIM MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,.....
No election here and no limited atonement.
As well as the unscriptural idea that one must be Born Again before one believes. God desires all men to be saved, meaning He desires that all men would seek a relationship with Him in this life, to be in communion with Him, to work with Him to be conformed to His Image, to be perfected.
From the very beginning of NT history, being born again meant being baptised, when one is baptised they receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. John 3:5. Baptism was the rite of entering into Christ, His Kingdom.

There are two aspects to atonement. Objectively, Christ by His own will, assumed our human nature in order to defeat the curse of death upon mankind. It was objective, man had nothing to do with it.
The secondary part was His sacrifice for sin, here it is available to all men, but God does not impose upon man whether one avails himself of the forgiveness of sin. God does not impose a relationship with Him, but only through the free will of man. God, through the Holy Spirit calls all men to repentance.

 

[shepherdsword]

Throwing names belittles you. Don't ever presume anything about me. You are stuck in your belief and only say I don't understand, so it must be me and not you. How convenient.

I am not sure what you mean by "throwing names". I am just pointing out where you are mistaken. No insult was intended. I guess I can consider this conversation over.
Blessings

 

[brightfame52]

Says the man who totally ignores all of these:

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

1 Jn 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rv 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish

Ro 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Ro 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Can you deal with any of these?

All limited to the elect

 

[brightfame52]

Another example of denying a clear teaching of scripture by simply omitting the text that would deny your whole theory of atonement and election.
I know you read John 6:40
Vss 39 is a incarnational verse, It aligns with Col 1:20. God gave all men to Christ by virtue of Christ being born as man, he assumed our human natures in order to raise them to life. Death to life, immortality.
Now, comes the verse that you need. Here is God's will.. "THAT EVERYONE WHO SEES THE SON AND BELIEVES IIN HIM MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,.....
No election here and no limited atonement.
As well as the unscriptural idea that one must be Born Again before one believes. God desires all men to be saved, meaning He desires that all men would seek a relationship with Him in this life, to be in communion with Him, to work with Him to be conformed to His Image, to be perfected.
From the very beginning of NT history, being born again meant being baptised, when one is baptised they receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. John 3:5. Baptism was the rite of entering into Christ, His Kingdom.

There are two aspects to atonement. Objectively, Christ by His own will, assumed our human nature in order to defeat the curse of death upon mankind. It was objective, man had nothing to do with it.
The secondary part was His sacrifice for sin, here it is available to all men, but God does not impose upon man whether one avails himself of the forgiveness of sin. God does not impose a relationship with Him, but only through the free will of man. God, through the Holy Spirit calls all men to repentance.

All of them scriptures refer to His elect people. All the Father gave Him in election Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

 

[Rightglory]

All of them scriptures refer to His elect people. All the Father gave Him in election Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

Not only nothing explicitly but nothing even inferring the elect. The Father gave Christ ALL THINGS, Col 1:20 which is very explicit what was given to Christ. Nothing about elect. It would have been easy for John to say ELECT, if it were true. Vs 38 even states that who comes to Him is not even about elect who according to your view were elected before the foundations of the world. They are already elect, They don't need to come to Christ.
Besides all men will have heard from God. Paul says there will be no exceptions. Rom 2:18 - 21. God does not save nor condemn anyone unilaterally without man's decision. There is no text in scripture where God says He imposes a spiritual relationship upon any individual.
We have John 12:32, II Pet 2:9, where He calls all men to repentance. God would be lying based on your theory of election and limited atonement.
Rom 2:4-11 denies your theory on man's relationship with God also.
Who does God raise up in the last day - only the elect? vs 39 denies your view categorically. Even vs40 denies your view since it is referring to those that see and believe. That is not the definition/theory of elect(ion).

 

[brightfame52]

Not only nothing explicitly but nothing even inferring the elect. The Father gave Christ ALL THINGS, Col 1:20 which is very explicit what was given to Christ. Nothing about elect. It would have been easy for John to say ELECT, if it were true. Vs 38 even states that who comes to Him is not even about elect who according to your view were elected before the foundations of the world. They are already elect, They don't need to come to Christ.
Besides all men will have heard from God. Paul says there will be no exceptions. Rom 2:18 - 21. God does not save nor condemn anyone unilaterally without man's decision. There is no text in scripture where God says He imposes a spiritual relationship upon any individual.
We have John 12:32, II Pet 2:9, where He calls all men to repentance. God would be lying based on your theory of election and limited atonement.
Rom 2:4-11 denies your theory on man's relationship with God also.
Who does God raise up in the last day - only the elect? vs 39 denies your view categorically. Even vs40 denies your view since it is referring to those that see and believe. That is not the definition/theory of elect(ion).

All of them scriptures refer to His elect people. All the Father gave Him in election Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

 

[brightfame52]

Who are the Us Here ?

Rom 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


This US refers to the Sheep as Per Jesus Christ words Jn 10:11

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Or its appropriate to say the US in Rom 5:8 refers to Gods Elect as it does in Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Its clearly seen here that Christ died in Vs 34 is connected to why none can lay anything to the charge of Gods Elect in Vs 33 2

 

[brightfame52]

Also in Jn 3:16 those who God so Loved that He gave His Only begotten for, they are the Sheep. They are the Ones Believing and have Eternal or Everlasting Life. Its confirmed by Jn 10:11

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. This confirms that God gave His Only begotten Son

Jn 10:28

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. This confirms they are given Eternal or Everlasting Life !

Jn 10:26,27

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
This proves that its the Sheep who are the whosoever is believing in Jn 3:16.

And theyre the Ones Christ laid down His Life for Jn 10:11,15

 

[soberxp]

Good good study word of God, day day up.

If Jesus says to a person, " We are destined to be separated, " ask how that person should be treated.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ Death was specifically for them that God gave them Grace in Him before the world began. 2 Tim 1:9

 

[brightfame52]

Understand this. The Lord Jesus Christ did not come to save Adam’s race. He did not die to redeem Adam’s race. He did not fulfil the law for Adam’s race. If he had, Adam’s race would be saved. Christ took hold of Abraham’s seed, came to save, died for, and fulfilled all the law for Abraham’s seed, God’s chosen race, his elect nation, his own peculiar people.

Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

There were angels that sinned against God too, but He was not commissioned to save them from their eternal doom, and in the same way, He wasn't sent to save all of the seed of adam, but only a particular segment of his progeny, the seed of Abraham.

When it reads He took on the seed of Abraham, the words took on in the greek is epilambanomai:

to take in addition, to lay hold of, take possession of, overtake, attain, attain to

to lay hold of or to seize upon anything with the hands, to take hold of, lay hold of

metaph. to rescue one from peril, to help, succour

It was only that seed He was to rescue from the pit of hell, it was only that seed He was help and succour.

Another reading:

For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].AMPC

For Christ came to save His Own, for He himself was of the seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 2

 

[Rightglory]

Understand this. The Lord Jesus Christ did not come to save Adam’s race. He did not die to redeem Adam’s race. He did not fulfil the law for Adam’s race. If he had, Adam’s race would be saved. Christ took hold of Abraham’s seed, came to save, died for, and fulfilled all the law for Abraham’s seed, God’s chosen race, his elect nation, his own peculiar people.

Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

There were angels that sinned against God too, but He was not commissioned to save them from their eternal doom, and in the same way, He wasn't sent to save all of the seed of adam, but only a particular segment of his progeny, the seed of Abraham.

I don't know which translation of the Bible you use, but I have 7 translations, The King James Version, Revised Standard Version, New King James Version, The New English Bible, The Living Bible, The Good News for Modern Man, The New Testament in Modern English

Not a single one translates vs 16 as saying that Christ took on the seed of Abraham. What it does say is that He became Human, took on flesh and blood, so that, vs 16 He could aid those of the seed of Abraham. And who are the seed of Abraham, those of faith. Christ did not take on our faith. He took upon Himself, our human nature, flesh and blood. He assumed our human nature through the Incarnation from the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit.

another reading:

For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].AMPC

Close, but by using the phrase, took hold, destroys the whole meaning of the verse and the meaning of the Incarnation. All translations I have say He did not become Human to aid Angels, but so He could aid Abraham seed - believers, those of faith.

For Christ came to save His Own, for He himself was of the seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

He died for all, raised all, so that He could be an aid and helper to Abraham's seed, those of faith. Because He raised all from death, He is now able to call men to repentance. Those that believe become elect, members of His Kingdom.

Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 2

Agreed.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't know which translation of the Bible you use, but I have 7 translations, The King James Version, Revised Standard Version, New King James Version, The New English Bible, The Living Bible, The Good News for Modern Man, The New Testament in Modern English

Not a single one translates vs 16 as saying that Christ took on the seed of Abraham. What it does say is that He became Human, took on flesh and blood, so that, vs 16 He could aid those of the seed of Abraham. And who are the seed of Abraham, those of faith. Christ did not take on our faith. He took upon Himself, our human nature, flesh and blood. He assumed our human nature through the Incarnation from the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit.

Close, but by using the phrase, took hold, destroys the whole meaning of the verse and the meaning of the Incarnation. All translations I have say He did not become Human to aid Angels, but so He could aid Abraham seed - believers, those of faith.

He died for all, raised all, so that He could be an aid and helper to Abraham's seed, those of faith. Because He raised all from death, He is not able to call men to repentance. Those that believe become elect, members of His Kingdom.

Agreed.

Christs atonement was restricted to the seed of Abraham, not all mankind.

 

[Ritajanice]

...does it mean that all that have the faith that Abraham had are all in Christ...like a “ Living “ faith just trying to understand

In fact, Paul expressly interprets the “seed” to whom Abraham's promises were given to refer to Christ alone (Gal. 3:16). The apostle states that all who have the faith of Abraham are blessed with Abraham and are regarded as heirs because they are in Christ, the true “seed” of Abraham (Gal. 3:7–9).

Can someone explain what this below means.
Brightfame posted.

Christs atonement was restricted to the seed of Abraham, not all mankind.

 

[Rightglory]

Christs atonement was restricted to the seed of Abraham, not all mankind.

Can you explain how this is possible?

 

[Rightglory]

...does it mean that all that have the faith that Abraham had are all in Christ...like a “ Living “ faith just trying to understand

In fact, Paul expressly interprets the “seed” to whom Abraham's promises were given to refer to Christ alone (Gal. 3:16). The apostle states that all who have the faith of Abraham are blessed with Abraham and are regarded as heirs because they are in Christ, the true “seed” of Abraham (Gal. 3:7–9).

Can someone explain what this below means.
Brightfame posted.

Christs atonement was restricted to the seed of Abraham, not all mankind.

It cannot be explained. Brightfame52 has never explained just how a limited atonement can take place. The concept is unscriptural, an impossibility based on the Incarnation of Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

It cannot be explained. Brightfame52 has never explained just how a limited atonement can take place. The concept is unscriptural, an impossibility based on the Incarnation of Christ.

Well...God does say that we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

So...there are lots of different interpretations on what it means to be Born Again, as I read in another post that you quoted me in.

I understand being Born Of The Spirit, the way Jesus explains it to Nicodemus, as the Spirit was indwelling me.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....Spirit gives birth to spirit.

If we are saved, then our spirit must be Born Again, only then are we saved from eternal damnation and the wrath of God.

My testimony and belief.

Just found this short commentary online.

People also ask
What is the limited atonement in the Bible?
The doctrine of Limited Atonement holds that Jesus' death on the cross was a specific and intentional act of sacrifice that was designed to secure salvation for the elect alone rather than making it potentially available for all people.


I guess we are all going to find out one day....can’t see any point in going over this ground....which has been gone over on this forum ,ever since I joined........

 

[brightfame52]

Can you explain how this is possible?

I believe it by Faith, its in the word of God. Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

See He was made like unto His Brethren, not all mankind, as a High Priest, a High Priest is designated over a certain people not all mankind. The Israelite High Priest, a Type, wasnt the High Priest for the egyptians, the caanites and so forth and He made reconcilition for that definite people. In the original "the people" in Vs 17 has the definite article and A definite article indicates specificity.

 

[Rightglory]

Well...God does say that we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Yes He did.

So...there are lots of different interpretations on what it means to be Born Again, as I read in another post that you quoted me in.

It is amazing just how many there are. But there is ONLY one scriptural one, which is what Jesus stated in a talk with Nicodemus, One must be born by water and the Spirit. John 3:5. Acts 2:38, Peter told those at Pentacost, to believe, be baptised and receive the Holy Spirit,

I understand being Born Of The Spirit, the way Jesus explains it to Nicodemus, as the Spirit was indwelling me.

Unless you have been baptised the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....Spirit gives birth to spirit.

If we are saved, then our spirit must be Born Again, only then are we saved from eternal damnation and the wrath of God.

When one is baptised, receives the Holy Spirit, one is now a member of His Kingdom. Being a member does not save you from damnation. It is all about what you do with your faith. We must remain faithful to Him then we shall inherit salvation, I Pet 1-3.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes He did.

It is amazing just how many there are. But there is ONLY one scriptural one, which is what Jesus stated in a talk with Nicodemus, One must be born by water and the Spirit. John 3:5. Acts 2:38, Peter told those at Pentacost, to believe, be baptised and receive the Holy Spirit,

Unless you have been baptised the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you.

Unless you have been “ Spirit baptised “ the Spirit does not indwell your heart/ spirit...” permanently “

John 3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

When one is baptised, receives the Holy Spirit, one is now a member of His Kingdom. Being a member does not save you from damnation. It is all about what you do with your faith. We must remain faithful to Him then we shall inherit salvation, I Pet 1-3.

Those who have been birthed by the Spirit will remain faithful...as their faith came by supernatural divine heart revelation...Born Of The Spirit.

I couldn’t know who God is nor Jesus...I know who they are by Gods Living testimony, the Living Holy Spirit.

Being Born Of The Spirit then saves us from eternal damnation and Gods wrath.

We are now in his Spirit Kingdom as Born Again..

Now, I am going to leave it there, as there is no point battling it out with each other.unedifying and unfruitful........I have my belief you have yours....

I stand by everyone of my posts, which are Biblical.....Spirit gave birth to my spirit 33 years ago...I’m being conformed into Jesus image daily and a bearer of His fruit.....very much an Honour and Privilege to be conformed into Jesus image....Good day.

Ps...I represent my Father God.....His will be done.....not my will be done...my aim is to please my Father God....Praise God.

Only the Living God is worthy of all Honour/ Praise and Glory.

Praise God for sending Jesus to the cross....so that I can be reconciled back to my Father God ...in spirit....

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.