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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I asked you first. ;)
If you fornicate and get pregnant, but don't want the baby. Can you deliberately get an abortion thinking you'll ask for forgiveness and God is obligated to forgive you?
You won't do this unless God leads you into temptation for a higher cause. This is why we pray "lead us not into temptation".
ScottA
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Unless Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, it is a work of the flesh and not biblical faith.
You won't find any such statement in the Bible. People must have saving faith BEFORE they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who then produces the fruit of the Spirit.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Do you believe we can't go anything against God's sovereign will? If that were the case, all sin would be His fault. I've heard one Calvinist extremist believe that he was an alcoholic because it was God's will. Was it?
People want to sin or else they would not. God gave us the new birth so we do not want to remain in sin but to pursue righteousness. In the end, all do what they want to do according to God's wrath or mercy.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, the desire to sin is gone, and we are given a new nature that cannot willfully sin, and puts us on the road to perfection. Jesus said, "Be perfect, as my Father in Heaven is perfect." He wouldn't have said that if He wasn't going to give us the means to become perfect - His Spirit.
bbyrd009
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but it will be read that you are denying any possibility of twice the sons of hell and seven worse spirits
1stCenturyLady
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bbyrd009
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One thing I learned though, is the flesh launches attacks in the thought realm and through imaginations that remain only temptation unless we entertain them. So while outward sin is rare, sins in thought are tempting. But easily rejected through prayer and focusing on something else. When we die, we go to heaven perfect. And all of the flesh goes into the ground and becomes erased. In the resurrection our bodies are raised new without the trappings of the flesh and reunited to us in Christ's glorious image.
H. Richard
Well-Known Member
H. Richard
Well-Known Member
***
LOL, I have never said it is impossible to be saved. But according to Jesus it is impossible for a man to become sinless by his works. The problem as I see it is that you are saying your FLESH is without sin because you now have the power to not sin in the flesh.
The spirit does not sin because it has been born by God. BUT the flesh still sins and that is what Paul is saying in Romans 7. You don't seem to understand that a child of God has two natures, one of sinful flesh and one of the spirit. Jesus work on the cross has set the children of God free from their sinful nature. It is still there and is still sinful but we are free from it.. But it seems to me you are saying the sinful flesh becomes non-sinful.
Paul disagree with that. He saw that the sinful nature wars against the spirit. How can the spirit war against the flesh if the flesh has been made sinless? In other words only the spirit is sinless.
What I see is that those that claim they now have the power to not sin are setting themselves up on a higher plain that others. And that is what they want. It builds their ego up to think they are better than others. They become like the Pharisees who thought they did not sin because they had others do their murder for them.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
One thing I think you are saying that I don't agree with and that is the meaning of flesh. Romans 8:9-11 is speaking of two different things called "the flesh." One is our nature, which before the Spirit was a sin nature or called our carnal flesh. The other is our bodies of "flesh" and blood. The nature is changed immediately, while our bodies must wait to be changed.
As for our "thoughts" we have the mind of Christ.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it is by our works. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. But that is before the empowering of the Holy Spirit. It is HIM working the works through us, not on our own.
As for Romans 7, haven't you read that in context yet? It seems you are taking verses 14-23 and not starting with verse 7. Read through to chapter 8 verse 9. Romans 7 is mankind while only under the law BEFORE Christ while we still had sin in our members. Jesus conquered that SIN nature. Ever since chapter one Paul has been talking about the law and chapter 7 is his conclusion. Chapter 8 begins the SPIRIT. It is LAW VS. SPIRIT.
Paul is not saying "the sinful flesh becomes non-sinful." He is saying it is dead, just as Christ was crucified and became dead. He and us rise together without the sin nature.
Don't go by your own experience, but by the Word of God. Because of the baptism of the Holy Spirit we are dead to sin, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit and cannot willfully sin. If anyone does not relate to having this power, maybe they don't, but without which you cannot be saved. I didn't for the first 30 years I went to church. But one night in 1977 I prayed that God completely cleanse me of ALL SIN. And immediately I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I actually felt it and was completely changed. My desires took 180 degree turnaround overnight.
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