LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

[Scott Downey]

Anyone who God saves, God saved them by His grace. Grace is not earned, we do not earn salvation by confessing Christ as Lord and believing in Him that God raised Christ from the dead. The reason we believe is God's grace for us in particular on our behalf according to His choice.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

And in that it says we are His workmanship, that began before we confessed Christ and believed in our hearts. Not of ourselves in every possible way you can think of is the truth.

Salvation is a gift, and not everyone gets that gift of His grace do they.

YOUR CALLING, you in particular were granted your believe in Christ by God the Father. This was not of your will, He taught you and changed your heart according to His purpose and will for you in particular. But yes, you did respond positively and received Him, yet only because God ordained that beforehand, before you were born in particular for you.

Philippians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul teaches the same in all his letters. That we were elected to be the saved, to be saints. He gave to us in particular that calling before time began, which is why we believe at all. If God had not done that, no one would be saved.

2 Timothy 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher [c]of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

 

[Scott Downey]

God works all things to the good of those He will save.
v29, also tells us God called some as in predestined some to be conformed to the image of Christ so that Christ would have FAMILY, many brothers. If God had done nothing in particular, no one would have believed in Christ, as the Devil blinds the minds of the unbelieving, so it takes God to do His work in you so that you are freed from that mind control and will believe . Satan will not let his captives go unless forced by God. Bind the strongman and then plunder his house. God visited the gentiles to take out of them a people for His Name.

Romans 8
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[Scott Downey]

Acts 15​

The Jerusalem Council​

6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, [a]acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus [b]Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’

18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from [f]sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

GOD is in Charge, He takes out from the Gentiles a people For His Name, This is the work of God, and not of yourself. the rest of mankind refers to the gentiles who are called by My Name to be saved, and The Lord say HE does the work. That a gentile turned to the LORD is entirely a work of grace.

 

[Rightglory]

This is nonsensical. I gave you scripture and you do not know it is SCripture.

Once again you amke accusation without evidence.

So until you back up you r claim I am falsely interpreting Scripture, here I wait.

The real question is how can you give any evidence that you are correct. As any protestant. all you have is your opinion. Your opinion against any other persons opinion.
I can give you factual historical interpretation that has been the same for 2000 years.

 

[Scott Downey]

You have not posted any that actually say the unsaved cannot choose God.

They have no desire to chose to follow Christ, so they never do. Unless a person is granted by the Father to come to Christ, they go their own way, away from Christ.
Only those God grants to come to Christ ever do come and get saved. The way this is spoken by Christ is exclusive, not inclusive.

John 6
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

Then we also have this about the unsaved, that shows they are at enmity with God. such a person will not be loving Christ, believing in Christ, it is why a person must be born again first to see as in perceive the kingdom of God. And people are born again according to the will and purpose of God for them., look at John 1:10

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Scott Downey]

John 1 tells us being born of God is not our will, but God's will

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The reason they receive Christ, is God made them born of Himself, so then by nature they are become spiritually minded.

 

[Scott Downey]

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE WORD OF GOD ABIDING IN YOU, then HIM WHOM HE SENT, HIM YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE....

And you will not be willing to come to Christ and be saved.

To have God's word aiding in you, means you have been born of God.

John 5
31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not [e]true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The unsaved have no love of GOD in them...and no they will not believe.

 

[atpollard]

I can give you factual historical interpretation that has been the same for 2000 years.

Actually, it isn’t. The RCC has changed its position on issues over the years. People were once burned by the church for translating the Bible into vernacular languages … does the RCC still enforce Latin Only Bibles and Mass?

Priests were once allows to marry.

 

[Rightglory]

They have no desire to chose to follow Christ, so they never do. Unless a person is granted by the Father to come to Christ, they go their own way, away from Christ.
Only those God grants to come to Christ ever do come and get saved. The way this is spoken by Christ is exclusive, not inclusive.

John 6
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

When one isolates texts to try to make a point it usually ends in error. The context of this whole discourse goes way back to vs 44 where it clearly states who will be drawn and will be raised in the last day. Well, just who will be raised up, Col 1:20 says all things were given to Christ to reconcile all things to God. John 6:39 makes the statement that all that was given to Christ will be raised in the last day. Namely, every single human being will be raised. Vs 45 states all will be taught of God and all those so taught will come to the Father. There is no text in scripture that limits who will come to Christ. vs 40 all that believe and see will have eternal life and will be raised as well. God is calling all men to repentance, The Holy Spirit has been working in this world calling all people. Man will make a choice

Then we also have this about the unsaved, that shows they are at enmity with God. such a person will not be loving Christ, believing in Christ, it is why a person must be born again first to see as in perceive the kingdom of God. And people are born again according to the will and purpose of God for them., look at John 1:10

The text does not say what you want it to say. When a person believes and is baptised, he is being born of God. One is not given a new birth prior to believing. John 3:3-5. Titus 3:5. Rom 6 is called the baptism chapter and states the same thing.

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

I'm not sure how this helps your argument. There is nothing in the chapter that says a person who lives by the flesh cannot repent of that life style. It also states that believers need to be careful that they do not fall back into living is the flesh. Since every sin is committed in the flesh, believers do live in the flesh, which is why repentance is necessary.

 

[Rightglory]

Actually, it isn’t. The RCC has changed its position on issues over the years. People were once burned by the church for translating the Bible into vernacular languages … does the RCC still enforce Latin Only Bibles and Mass?

Priests were once allows to marry.

agree with you completely.

 

[Scott Downey]

When one isolates texts to try to make a point it usually ends in error. The context of this whole discourse goes way back to vs 44 where it clearly states who will be drawn and will be raised in the last day. Well, just who will be raised up, Col 1:20 says all things were given to Christ to reconcile all things to God. John 6:39 makes the statement that all that was given to Christ will be raised in the last day. Namely, every single human being will be raised. Vs 45 states all will be taught of God and all those so taught will come to the Father. There is no text in scripture that limits who will come to Christ. vs 40 all that believe and see will have eternal life and will be raised as well. God is calling all men to repentance, The Holy Spirit has been working in this world calling all people. Man will make a choice

The text does not say what you want it to say. When a person believes and is baptised, he is being born of God. One is not given a new birth prior to believing. John 3:3-5. Titus 3:5. Rom 6 is called the baptism chapter and states the same thing.


I'm not sure how this helps your argument. There is nothing in the chapter that says a person who lives by the flesh cannot repent of that life style. It also states that believers need to be careful that they do not fall back into living is the flesh. Since every sin is committed in the flesh, believers do live in the flesh, which is why repentance is necessary.

We are born of God first, then we believe and saved
The Romans 8 scriptures prove this.
As does Titus 3, in that saying we are saved by His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Spirit, this is what being born of God does. And we are justified by grace alone, not by the speaking of our words
The words come later and in this way everyone who has been born again first will confess Christ second.

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

There is nothing in the above verses that say what you are saying.
What you are saying is we are saved by God's mercy after we believe in Christ, but scripturally that mercy comes first.

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God. Therefore everyone who [a]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

ALL here is referring to all that God draws, God saves. Of all of that group drawn, the Father teaches only them, and only they get saved.
There are no people God draws who are not saved.
When Jesus says He will draw all men to Him, that refers to Christ doing the drawing of whomever He saves, not every single man is drawn.
And we do not see that in real life do we, many have no interest in and have enmity with Christ, we know then they are not being drawn, convicted in their hearts by the Holy Spirit or the enmity would be removed from them. The Greek word for drawn mean to compel by an inward force of power, the Holy Spirit does that work and He succeeds every time without fail.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus clearly teaches again whom He will reveal God to, and it is according to Christ's will to whom He will reveal the Father so that a person will know them. Otherwise, a person has this hidden from them and they will never be saved.

Luke 10
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The real question is how can you give any evidence that you are correct. As any protestant. all you have is your opinion. Your opinion against any other persons opinion.
I can give you factual historical interpretation that has been the same for 2000 years.

I repeat:

This is nonsensical. I gave you scripture and you do not know it is SCripture.

Once again you amke accusation without evidence.

So until you back up you r claim I am falsely interpreting Scripture, here I wait.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually, it isn’t. The RCC has changed its position on issues over the years. People were once burned by the church for translating the Bible into vernacular languages … does the RCC still enforce Latin Only Bibles and Mass?

No - peoplle were exceuted for publishing unauthorized and otherwise spurious and perverted versions of Scripture.
The prohibition was put into place because of a SLEW of bad translations being copied.

Since Bibles were HANDWRITTEN in those days, there were very expensive to copy and took YEARS to complete. Rich people could afford to have them copied - but their scribes weren't qualified to translate them accurately. The result was bad copies with perverted doctrines heretical ideas being passed around.

So, at the Council of Toulouse in the 13th century, a prohibition was passed from owning unauthorized Bibles. Since they were so valuable - authorized bibles were chained to pulpits.

Priests were once allows to marry.

Priests can STILL marry - just not in the Roman/Latin rite.
In the Eastern rites, there are married Priests and Bishops.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well Trent was a RC council and untrustworthy.

I discern false teaching by comparing what is presented with the whole counsel of Scripture on the subject! As all believers are supposed to.

And you, you believe in Limited Atonement, which completely CONTRADICTS Scripture?

NOBODY is automatically "saved" because of the Crucifixion. We are all REDEEEMED (paid for).
Salvation requires our cooperation with God's saving grace.

 

[Rightglory]

We are born of God first, then we believe and saved
The Romans 8 scriptures prove this.

You will need to point out in Romans specifically because I see nothing that puts baptism before believing.

As does Titus 3, in that saying we are saved by His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Spirit, this is what being born of God does. And we are justified by grace alone, not by the speaking of our words
The words come later and in this way everyone who has been born again first will confess Christ second.

All men were saved by His mercy. That is referring to the universal atonement of Christ. It is also referenced in Eph 2:1-5. Not that we are not as believers saved by grace as individuals, but scripture calls that being saved through faith. Man has nothing to do with what Christ did, but the response is all centered on man. Man is free to choose life or death. Same as it was in the beginning.
The next step is for man to believe and then is washed by baptism and given the Holy Spirit. Rom 8:24 refers to this (saved) as well.

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

There is nothing in the above verses that say what you are saying.
What you are saying is we are saved by God's mercy after we believe in Christ, but scripturally that mercy comes first.

You are so absolutely correct, the mercy comes first. For without the mercy of Christ's atonement nothing else would matter. We all would still be under the curse of death and sin through Adam. The past tense gives it away.
As believers we are not saved, but are being saved. Salvation (eternal life) is the hope that Paul is speaking about in vs24 and 25 and because of that hope of salvation we persevere. We inherit it at the end. I Pet 1:3-5.

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God. Therefore everyone who [a]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

ALL here is referring to all that God draws, God saves. Of all of that group drawn, the Father teaches only them, and only they get saved.
There are no people God draws who are not saved.
When Jesus says He will draw all men to Him, that refers to Christ doing the drawing of whomever He saves, not every single man is drawn.

You are almost correct. Christ uses the analogy of the Tree with a snake on it in the desert with Moses. Since it is Christ on the Cross which it symbolizes. we know He called every human being to Himself by virtue of His Incarnation. God desires to save humanity and the universe from the curse of death and sin. He does not play favorites. He loves His creation and every person in it. He did that so that He could call all men to repentance. There is never a text that shows God's partiality in any step with salvation. Why would you teach that God does not love most of mankind, nor His creation.
That He hates a person before and at the same time desires that all be saved and the fact the Holy Spirit is calling all men to repentance.
Your theology is isolated, inconsistent with scripture.

And we do not see that in real life do we, many have no interest in and have enmity with Christ, we know then they are not being drawn, convicted in their hearts by the Holy Spirit or the enmity would be removed from them. The Greek word for drawn mean to compel by an inward force of power, the Holy Spirit does that work and He succeeds every time without fail.

Every single human being at some point in his life must make a decision for death or life. That includes every single person who believes. Before they believe they were at enmity with God. And speaking of failure. It is not the Holy Spirit that fails, but man. Many believers fall by the wayside.

 

[Scott Downey]

You will need to point out in Romans specifically because I see nothing that puts baptism before believing.

All men were saved by His mercy. That is referring to the universal atonement of Christ. It is also referenced in Eph 2:1-5. Not that we are not as believers saved by grace as individuals, but scripture calls that being saved through faith. Man has nothing to do with what Christ did, but the response is all centered on man. Man is free to choose life or death. Same as it was in the beginning.
The next step is for man to believe and then is washed by baptism and given the Holy Spirit. Rom 8:24 refers to this (saved) as well.

You are so absolutely correct, the mercy comes first. For without the mercy of Christ's atonement nothing else would matter. We all would still be under the curse of death and sin through Adam. The past tense gives it away.
As believers we are not saved, but are being saved. Salvation (eternal life) is the hope that Paul is speaking about in vs24 and 25 and because of that hope of salvation we persevere. We inherit it at the end. I Pet 1:3-5.

You are almost correct. Christ uses the analogy of the Tree with a snake on it in the desert with Moses. Since it is Christ on the Cross which it symbolizes. we know He called every human being to Himself by virtue of His Incarnation. God desires to save humanity and the universe from the curse of death and sin. He does not play favorites. He loves His creation and every person in it. He did that so that He could call all men to repentance. There is never a text that shows God's partiality in any step with salvation. Why would you teach that God does not love most of mankind, nor His creation.
That He hates a person before and at the same time desires that all be saved and the fact the Holy Spirit is calling all men to repentance.
Your theology is isolated, inconsistent with scripture.

Every single human being at some point in his life must make a decision for death or life. That includes every single person who believes. Before they believe they were at enmity with God. And speaking of failure. It is not the Holy Spirit that fails, but man. Many believers fall by the wayside.

You know Christ uses the serpent raised in the wilderness by Moses as an example that all who look to the Savior, believing and loving Him, Christ, will be saved. The issue is like I keep saying is people refuse to look in faith at Christ as their Savior. And scripture is clear why that is.

The only ones who do that are those God the Father has granted to come to Christ. See your understanding ignores all the scriptures that speak to that. The reason people do not believe Christ teaches plainly in John 6, and it is because they have not been granted by God to be saved. For His own reasons, for the purposes of God and His glory, God has given them over to their sins to destruction.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Just Live by Faith​

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel [c]of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness​

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [i]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [j]men, leaving the natural use of the [k]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [l]sexual immorality, wickedness, [m]covetousness, [n]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [o]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [p]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Scott Downey]

Not everyone is called, God has chosen those He will call.
It is only because of Him, that you are in Christ.
This was not of your will. So many people say it was their will to be saved.... but scripture tells us such thinking is a lie. There is no good thing that dwells in our flesh.

18 For the [g]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [h]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [i]stumbling block and to the [j]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”