Leaders That Don't Support Good Works or Overcoming Sin
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Yes, I believe we get triggered into the flesh. So we need to steer clear of those things that trigger us! Many of my own thoughts do that, so I have to carefully mind my mind!
Much love!
You are all over the place, quoting isolated verses neglecting context and no one is "stifling" anything, get yourself acquainted with the Imperatives as it stands written in Scriptures please.
Belief in Jesus Christ and the Scriptures
John 20:30-31 (ESV)
Text: "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."
Explanation: This passage underscores that the purpose of the written Gospel is to provide the necessary basis for belief in Jesus as the Christ and to offer eternal life through faith in His name.
Romans 10:17 (ESV)
Text: "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."
Explanation: Faith is developed through hearing the message of Christ, which is conveyed through the Scriptures.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (ESV)
Text: "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
Explanation: The Scriptures are sufficient to make one wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus and to thoroughly equip believers for every good work, indicating their sufficiency.
Galatians 1:8-9 (ESV)
Text: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
Explanation: Paul emphasizes the completeness and finality of the Gospel message that has already been delivered, warning against any new or contrary revelations.
Jude 1:3 (ESV)
Text: "Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints."
Explanation: The faith was delivered "once for all" to the saints, indicating that no further revelations are needed beyond what has already been given.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV)
Text: "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."
Explanation: God's final and complete revelation has come through His Son, Jesus Christ, implying that no additional revelations are necessary.
Summary
The Scriptures clearly teach that belief in Jesus Christ and the written Word is sufficient for salvation and spiritual growth. The faith once delivered to the saints through the apostles and prophets, culminating in the revelation of Jesus Christ, is complete and authoritative. These passages collectively assert that no new experiences or revelations are needed beyond the biblical revelation for the believer's faith and practice.
1 Peter 1:23-25 (ESV)
Text: "since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for 'All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever.' And this word is the good news that was preached to you."
Explanation: The enduring nature of God's Word is emphasized, underscoring its sufficiency and eternal relevance for the believer.
Psalm 19:7-11 (ESV)
Text: "The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward."
Explanation: The completeness and perfection of God's law highlight its sufficiency in guiding, reviving, and enlightening believers.
Proverbs 30:5-6 (ESV)
Text: "Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar."
Explanation: The trustworthiness and completeness of God's Word are emphasized, warning against adding to His words.
Isaiah 8:20 (ESV)
Text: "To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn."
Explanation: The primacy of God's written word in guiding truth and discerning falsehood is stressed.
Matthew 24:35 (ESV)
Text: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."
Explanation: The enduring and unchanging nature of Jesus' words underscore their sufficiency and eternal relevance.
Luke 16:29-31 (ESV)
Text: "But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
Explanation: Jesus' parable highlights the sufficiency of the Scriptures (Moses and the Prophets) for belief and repentance, even over miraculous experiences.
John 5:39-40 (ESV)
Text: "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."
Explanation: Jesus emphasizes that the Scriptures testify about Him and are sufficient for leading one to eternal life.
Acts 17:11 (ESV)
Text: "Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."
Explanation: The Bereans are commended for their diligent examination of the Scriptures, underscoring the importance and sufficiency of the written word for verifying truth.
1 Corinthians 4:6 (ESV)
Text: "I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another."
Explanation: Paul instructs the Corinthians not to go beyond what is written, emphasizing the sufficiency and authority of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:15-16 (ESV)
Text: "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."
Explanation: Peter acknowledges Paul's letters as Scripture, reinforcing the authority and sufficiency of the written word for instruction and salvation.
The Bible consistently emphasizes the sufficiency of Scripture and faith in Jesus Christ, highlighting the completeness of the revelation given to us through the written word. These passages collectively assert that the Scriptures provide all that is necessary for faith, guidance, and spiritual growth, without the need for new experiences or additional revelations.
You want to "walk through walls?" Why is the word of God so hard for you to understand?
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Exactly!!! I'm glad I finally read through this thread! Great insights here!
Much love!
I see a massive apostasy and twisting and perverting the Scriptures globally, in these last days--I can give you the Scripture references.
Personally I believe the reality is that we are born again when we are justified in Christ's death, and share His resurrection life. That our inner man is righteous and holy. We go on to spend our lives learning, being trained, to live that life instead of the fleshy life with which we've been ingrained.
Much love!
God always keeps for Himself a remnant though. The early church that experienced great grace was itself a remnant of the nation of Israel.
I strongly support limiting ourselves to Biblical terminology as much as possible to guard against "drift".
Much love!
Correct.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (ESV)
Text: "Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction."
Explanation: This passage speaks of a great rebellion or apostasy (Greek: ἀποστασία, apostasia) that will occur before the return of Christ, indicating a widespread departure from the faith.
1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV)
Text: "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."
Explanation: Paul warns that in the latter times, some will depart from the faith, following false teachings and deceptions.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (ESV)
Text: "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."
Explanation: This passage predicts a time when people will reject sound doctrine and turn to teachings that align with their own desires, further highlighting a period of apostasy.
Matthew 24:10-12 (ESV)
Text: "And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold."
Explanation: Jesus warns that in the end times, many will fall away, false prophets will lead many astray, and the love of many will grow cold due to increased lawlessness.
Matthew 7:13-14 (ESV)
Text: "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
Explanation: Jesus teaches that the path to eternal life is narrow and difficult, and few will find it, contrasting it with the broad path that leads to destruction which many will follow.
Luke 18:8 (ESV)
Text: "I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
Explanation: This rhetorical question posed by Jesus suggests a concern about the scarcity of genuine faith at His return.
1 John 2:18-19 (ESV)
Text: "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
Explanation: John speaks of many antichrists and those who have left the fellowship, indicating a falling away from true faith.
Jude 1:17-19 (ESV)
Text: "But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, 'In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.' It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit."
Explanation: Jude recalls the apostles' warnings about scoffers in the last days who follow ungodly desires, causing divisions and demonstrating a lack of true spiritual life.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (ESV)
Text: "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."
Explanation: Peter warns about false teachers who will lead many astray with destructive heresies, emphasizing the prevalence of apostasy.
Revelation 3:15-16 (ESV)
Text: "I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
Explanation: Jesus addresses the church of Laodicea, criticizing their lukewarm faith, which is indicative of spiritual complacency and apostasy.
Summary
These passages collectively depict a time of widespread apostasy and departure from the faith, especially in the last days. They emphasize the importance of remaining steadfast in faith amidst false teachings and the increasing difficulty of the narrow path that leads to life. The Scriptures warn that while many will fall away, only a few will remain true to the faith and be saved.
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- Jan 27, 2021
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My question on this is, how do you account, in this typology, for the fact that they did not take all the land? That they left the inhabitants alive among them, servants, but alive, contrary to God's command?
Much love!
When we are prideful and fleshy, fear, when we are submitted, humble, contrite, love.
I think you've got this right, thank you!
Much love!
Bible says the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth and show us things to come. Whoever wrote the above is adding to the word in red letters....the bible doesn't say "without the need for new experiences or additional revelations." What about Paul's experience and the revelations that he mentioned that were so surpassingly great he needed a thorn in his flesh?
No I have no wish to walk through walls at all. Just saying we shouldn't limit God from doing such as that with someone if He so wills.
There are parts of God's word that you are denying and trying to explain away. We need to have the mind of Christ for the things that are written. Our reliance needs to be on the Holy Spirit, not the carnal intellect WHICH CANNOT PERCEIVE THE THINGS OF GOD.
I completely agree with this, God does what He pleases, and no one can ask Him, What do you think you are doing?
I have never seen or hear of in the modern day the multitudes healed as Jesus did in His day, though I do see those who call themselves apostles and claim to have powers and claim authority over the church.
I go back to what Paul said, "You earnestly covet the better gifts, but I will show you a more excellent way", and then taught about Christian Love, Charity, in the King James, I like that, I think that's more the point. What we do for others, without concern for ourselves. Determination to serve others in love, because we are committed inside to their wellbeing in every sense. Some chase these things, signs, wonders, looking for the affirmation for themself. Or to be a part of something big. I don't know, I conjecture.
My thinking, let God worry about any gifts or abilities or anything He may or may not want to gift me with, while I focus on keeping my mind straight and my actions right.
Much love!
What if we had the same likemindedness they had? There are indeed times and seasons, and I'd be perfectly happy to see that kind of a season, though I seriously wonder that we are headed for greater isolation, and persecution. We need to have that solid fellowship with other children of God, the true children. But maybe in that unity we may see a greater work of God.
As far as "greater works than these", I think that relates to Jesus dispensing the gift of health, deliverance, like that, while His disciples went on to dispense the gift of eternal life.
Much love!
You're not Paul-and you have not seen the risen Messiah and you are not an Apostle and you are NOT sent to the Goyim to preach to them which sit in darkness!--do a word study on Apostle please. and if you seek after the mystic spectacular experiences--when even experiences must line up under the dokimazo of Scripture-you are just a wandering star, dipping here and there, selective one verse theology and really haven't read a word I have posted to you.
Many "followed" Jesus for the loaves and the fish--many unwilling to count the cost, to deny self, take up the cross. and keep on following the Master.
What is a "witness?"
You are going to have to look this up for yourself-I'm afraid.
@marks is spot on--yet you even question him, as you question me, as you question the Scriptures--no offense.
What "new revelations and additional experiences" do you seek that you don't have? Why was our brother Paul given a thorn in the flesh?
Some directives how to pray--
Wisdom and Knowledge
James 1:5 - "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him."
Proverbs 2:3-6 - "Yes, if you cry out for discernment, and lift up your voice for understanding, if you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures; then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God. For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding."
Colossians 1:9 - "For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding."
Guidance and Direction
Psalm 25:4-5 - "Show me Your ways, O Lord; teach me Your paths. Lead me in Your truth and teach me, for You are the God of my salvation; on You I wait all the day."
Proverbs 3:5-6 - "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths."
Strength and Endurance
Isaiah 40:31 - "But those who wait on the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint."
Philippians 4:13 - "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
Ephesians 3:16 - "That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man."
Peace and Comfort
Philippians 4:6-7 - "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."
John 14:27 - "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."
Forgiveness and Repentance
1 John 1:9 - "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Psalm 51:10 - "Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me."
Spiritual Growth and Fruitfulness
Ephesians 1:17-19 - "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power."
Colossians 1:10-12 - "That you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light."
Provision and Daily Needs
Matthew 6:11 - "Give us this day our daily bread."
Philippians 4:19 - "And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
Protection and Deliverance
Psalm 91:1-2 - "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, 'He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.'"
2 Thessalonians 3:3 - "But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one."
First of all, He said that to His disciples and only to us indirectly, if at all. He is speaking to the first-century church, and He makes the statement that the works they do will be greater than the works that He performed (John 14:12). Let me tell you what I don't think it means.
There are many today who believe that there are people running around this world right now who are performing greater miracles, performing miracles in greater abundance, and actually doing more incredible acts of divine healing than Jesus Himself did. I can't think of any more serious delusion than that, that somebody would actually think they have exceeded Jesus in terms of the works He has done. There's nobody who comes close to the work that Jesus did.
There's nobody who comes close to the work that Jesus did.
Some say that perhaps we can't do greater works than Jesus individually but that corporately we are able to exceed in power the things that Jesus did. We see amazing things happening in the first-century church through the power that Christ gave to His apostles. We see people raised from the dead through Peter and Paul. But at the same time I would challenge people by telling them to add up all of the miracles that, according to New Testament records, were wrought through the hands of Paul, Peter, and the rest of the disciples corporately, put them all together, and see if they measure a greater degree than those which our Lord performed. If Jesus meant that people would do greater miracles than He performed in the sense of displaying more power and more astonishing things than He did, then obviously one of the works that Jesus failed to perform was sound prophecy, because that just didn't happen. Nobody exceeded Jesus' works. That's what leads me to believe that's not what He meant. I think He's using the term "greater" in a different way.
I heard a church historian say that he was convinced that when Jesus made the statement "Greater works than these will you do," He was referring to the whole scope of the impact of Christ's people and His church on the world throughout history. I know a lot of people look at the history of Western civilization and say that the bulk of the church's influence has been negative—the black eye of the Crusades, the Galileo episode, and holy wars, etc. If you look at the record, you will see that it was the Christian church that spearheaded the abolition of slavery, the end of the Roman arena, the whole concept of education, the concept of charitable hospitals and orphanages, and a host of other humanitarian activities. I think, personally, that that's what Jesus meant when He talked about greater works.
What Did Jesus Mean When He Said We Would Do Greater Work Than He Did?
First of all, He said that to His disciples and only to us indirectly, if at all. He is speaking to the first-century church, and He makes the statement that th
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And/or...we can spell things out that are in the bible that we have understood in many other ways in order to avoid an indoctrination through learning bible-ese...or bible speak...that gives an impression that we have even a clue as to what is being related in the bible.
To me, if a person can ONLY quote bible verses without being able to express the ideas being presented in one's own words ALSO....then that person is most probably indoctrinated without any understanding.
Anybody can copy-paste bible verses...and then draw astoundingly silly conclusions. Look at all the confusion brought out from the Reformation. Thousands of human opinions, religious preferences, personal interpretations... rinse and repeat. But the truth? Nary a one.
And then look at the confusion that has arisen from the early church fathers and Catholic doctrines with their religious dogmas, especially in this age of enlightenment. Scripture warns against such confusion and calls for clarity and adherence to the truth found in God's Word.
1 Corinthians 14:33 - "For God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."
Colossians 2:8 - "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."
1 Timothy 4:1 - "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons."
Galatians 1:6-9 - "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."
2 Peter 2:1 - "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction."
Matthew 15:9 - "And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
These scriptures highlight the importance of discernment and the necessity to remain grounded in the pure and unaltered gospel of Christ, avoiding the confusion and misguidance that can arise from human traditions and doctrines.
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