Justified by Works

[GracePeace]

Every time you fail to perfectly love others in thought, word or deed, including your enemies, tohse who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you, do you believe you are placed in an unjustified state?

More than that, when I do not believe God's love for me, and am not reflecting that love to others (it shows in particulars like envying, hating, etc), I can know I am not in faith, though, what is more important is the next step : believe God loves and forgives me.

 

[GracePeace]

Every time you fail to perfectly love others in thought, word or deed, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you, do you believe you are placed in an unjustified state?

This was styled as a "reply" to Matthew 18, but you didn't even address the problem of Matthew 18.

 

[uncle silas]

More than that, when I do not believe God's love for me, and am not reflecting that love to others (it shows in particulars like envying, hating, etc), I can know I am not in faith, though, what is more important is the next step : believe God loves and forgives me.

If you are telling me you believe every time you do not comply with the commandment to love others, including your enemies as described you believe you are placed in an unjustified state, I would not believe you. aI know these sites are just to discuss theology, but even so. It seems to me your theological thinking is devoid of any reality in your life

 

[Johann]

This touches upon another aspect I have already addressed, but which, I have to assume, you did not think was important to answer : God can forget not only sin but also righteousness (Ez 18:24), and, in the New Testament, "faith is counted as righteousness", so people can be "forgotten", "blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life". The example I've already provided you with was Matthew 18 (parable of the unforgiving servant).

Here I would disagree.
In the Pauline epistles, there are a few passages that touch on the theme of being blotted out or the assurance of salvation, though they may not explicitly mention being "blotted out of God's book." Here are some relevant scriptures:

1. 2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
This verse highlights the accountability of believers for their actions, suggesting a judgment process that may affect their rewards.

2. Galatians 5:4
"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."
This suggests the possibility of falling away from grace, which some interpret as a form of spiritual separation from God.

3. Philippians 4:3
"Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life."
While this verse affirms that certain believers' names are in the book of life, it implies a distinction between those who are secure and those who might not be.

4. 1 Corinthians 9:27
"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul expresses concern about being disqualified, which can be interpreted as a warning about the necessity of perseverance in faith.


While these passages do not explicitly state that a believer can be blotted out of God's book, they do convey a sense of accountability, the importance of remaining in faith, and the possibility of spiritual failure. The interpretations of these verses can vary significantly across different theological perspectives.

2Co_1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


Shalom
J.

 

[GracePeace]

If you are telling me you believe every time you do not comply with the commandment to love others, including your enemies as described you believe you are placed in an unjustified state, I would not believe you. aI know these sites are just to discuss theology, but even so. It seems to me your theological thinking is devoid of any reality in your life

1. You are not answering Matthew 18.
2. Well, all I can do is tell you that I know I am condemned when I don't walk in faith, but I can't force you to believe me.

 

[GracePeace]

Here I would disagree.
In the Pauline epistles, there are a few passages that touch on the theme of being blotted out or the assurance of salvation, though they may not explicitly mention being "blotted out of God's book." Here are some relevant scriptures:

1. 2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
This verse highlights the accountability of believers for their actions, suggesting a judgment process that may affect their rewards.

2. Galatians 5:4
"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."
This suggests the possibility of falling away from grace, which some interpret as a form of spiritual separation from God.

3. Philippians 4:3
"Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life."
While this verse affirms that certain believers' names are in the book of life, it implies a distinction between those who are secure and those who might not be.

4. 1 Corinthians 9:27
"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul expresses concern about being disqualified, which can be interpreted as a warning about the necessity of perseverance in faith.


While these passages do not explicitly state that a believer can be blotted out of God's book, they do convey a sense of accountability, the importance of remaining in faith, and the possibility of spiritual failure. The interpretations of these verses can vary significantly across different theological perspectives.

2Co_1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


Shalom
J.

Matthew 18 demonstrates being granted faith isn't a static state--by faith, he is forgiven, but when the faith is removed, his righteousness of faith forgotten, his debts return, so he's no different than an unbeliever.

 

[uncle silas]

1. You are not answering Matthew 18.
2. Well, all I can do is tell you that I know I am condemned when I don't walk in faith, and I can't force you to believe me.

What's Matthew 18 got to do with this? Every day of your life you don't walk in faith, if you judge it according to obedience to the law in your mind, providing you hold that law to the pristene level it is set at. Actually that is the wrong thing to say. How can we hide from what is in our most inward parts?

 

[Johann]

I would have to disagree, since Matthew 18 says the servant had been forgiven all his debt, but, because of his behavior, afterward, his debt returned. Being that forgiveness is by the righteousness of faith (Ro 4:6-8), this would mean that he had already been a believer, yet, His having been a believer, his righteousness of faith, was "forgotten" : God not only has the capacity to forget sin, but to forget righteousness (Ez 18:24), and this is how it plays out in the New Covenant (their name is blotted out).

I do believe you are quoting references out of context to fit your narrative @GracePeace.

Just an observation.
J.

 

[GracePeace]

What's Matthew 18 got to do with this? Every day of your life you don't walk in faith, if you judge it according to obedience to the law in your mind, providing you hold that law to the pristene level it is set at. Actually that is the wrong thing to say. How can we hide from what is in our most inward parts?

1. I already explained what Mathew 18 has to do with it : your example was that a child doesn't unbecome a part of his family, but I prove that that idea is falsified by Scripture.
2. People who infract the law of their minds are slaves of sin (following their bodies), and they are condemned and will be condemned without repentance and walking in faith in God's love, and then doing things they are fully persuaded are correct.

 

[GracePeace]

I do believe you are quoting references out of context to fit your narrative @GracePeace.

Just an observation.
J.

So, how is the servant forgiven all his debts? Is it not by the righteousness of faith that is described as "blessed is the man whose sins God will not remember" (Ro 4:6-8)?

 

[uncle silas]

Matthew 18 demonstrates being granted faith isn't a static state--by faith, he is forgiven, but when the faith is removed, his righteousness of faith forgotten, his debts return, so he's no different than an unbeliever.

What you are actually saying is. You can only be in a justified state so long as you perfectly obey the law/don't commit sin

 

[Johann]

Matthew 18 demonstrates being granted faith isn't a static state--by faith, he is forgiven, but when the faith is removed, his righteousness of faith forgotten, his debts return, so he's no different than an unbeliever.

I believe we are in the Pauline epistles-not in Matt. 18?
J.

 

[GracePeace]

What you are actually saying is. You can only be in a justified state so long as you perfectly obey the law/don't commit sin

No, you're misunderstanding me. We're not under Law for righteousness, we're under Grace for righteousness.

 

[uncle silas]

1. I already explained what Mathew 18 has to do with it : your example was that a child doesn't unbecome a part of his family, but I prove that that idea is falsified by Scripture.
2. People who infract the law of their minds are slaves of sin (following their bodies), and they are condemned and will be condemned without repentance and walking in faith in God's love, and then doing things they are fully persuaded are correct.

You infract the law in your mind, are you a slave to sin? Are you condemned?

 

[GracePeace]

I believe we are in the Pauline epistles-not in Matt. 18?
J.

So, there is discontinuity between the two?

How is the servant forgiven? Is it a different method than can be found in Pauline writings?

 

[GracePeace]

You infract the law in your mind, are you a slave to sin? Are you condemned?

The plan of God is that people obey the Law of Faith--believe in the Name of God's Son and then walk in faith.
If people do not obey the Law of Faith, doing these two things, they are not justified.
I've cited Romans 14:23 to prove this.
You went to "if we are unfaithful He is faithful".
I answered "if we deny Him He will deny us" and cited Matthew 18 as an example.
You're refusing to answer Matthew 18.
I can't help that.

 

[GracePeace]

You infract the law in your mind, are you a slave to sin? Are you condemned?

When a person is convinced they ought to do one thing, but they find that they do another, what is the cause? Isn't it that their body is telling them what to do? Peter says "desires which wage war against your mind". If we are doing things that our thoughts accuse us for doing, yes, that is not walking in freedom, "the Law of Liberty", which, in other words, is called being enslaved.

 

[uncle silas]

The plan of God is that people obey the Law of Faith--believe in the Name of God's Son and then walk in faith.
If people do not obey the Law of Faith, doing these two things, they are not justified.
I've cited Romans 14:23 to prove this.
You went to "if we are unfaithful He is faithful".
I answered "if we deny Him He will deny us" and cited Matthew 18 as an example.
You're refusing to answer Matthew 18.
I can't help that.

And you are simply delfecting. You said if people infract the law in their mind they are a slave to sin and condemned. Does that apply to you. For you infract the law in your mind

 

[GracePeace]

And you are simply delfecting. You said if people infract the law in their mind they are a slave to sin and condemned. Does that apply to you. For you infract the law in your mind

OF COURSE it applies to me--if and when I am not walking in faith, I am not walking in freedom, but doing what I do not agree with, so I am condemned for sin as the verse says!

If you are doing what you disagree with, aren't you NOT FREE, which is also called being ENSLAVED? Doesn't Paul say "all things are lawful but I will not be mastered by anything"?

 

[GracePeace]

And you are simply delfecting.

Guy, answer Matthew 18.