So according to what you wrote, as you infract the law in your mind you are a slave to sin, Paul states that leads to death
Justified by Works
- Thread starter GracePeace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Forgiveness in the Pauline Epistles
In the Pauline epistles, forgiveness is grounded in the righteousness of faith. Paul emphasizes that believers are justified and forgiven through faith in Jesus Christ.
Grace and Faith: In Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul writes, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Here, the method of forgiveness is clearly tied to God’s grace and the believer’s faith, highlighting a reliance on Christ’s atoning work rather than personal merit.
Imputed Righteousness: In Romans 4:6-8, Paul references David’s blessing of forgiveness, indicating that righteousness is credited to those who believe, not based on works. The focus is on God’s gracious act of not counting sins against the believer.
2. The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
While Matthew 18 illustrates forgiveness, it aligns with Pauline theology in several ways:
Grace from the Master: The servant's forgiveness represents an unmerited gift from the master, mirroring the grace of God described by Paul. The forgiveness granted is not earned but given freely.
Expectation of Forgiveness: The parable emphasizes that those who have received mercy should also extend it to others. This reflects Paul’s teachings on the transformative nature of grace, where believers are called to forgive as they have been forgiven (e.g., Colossians 3:13).
3. Continuity vs. Discontinuity
Continuity: Both the Pauline epistles and the parable convey that forgiveness is rooted in God's grace and not human effort. They both emphasize the importance of faith and the expectation of a transformed life in response to receiving forgiveness.
Discontinuity: The parable serves as an illustrative story while the Pauline epistles provide doctrinal teaching. The method of forgiveness—grace through faith—remains consistent in both contexts, but the parable focuses more on the relational aspect of forgiveness and its practical implications.
The servant’s forgiveness in the parable aligns with the principles found in Pauline writings, emphasizing that both illustrate the grace of God. The method of forgiveness remains fundamentally consistent: it is through God's grace and faith that believers are forgiven, whether viewed through parabolic teaching or doctrinal exposition. Thus, there is no essential discontinuity in the understanding of forgiveness between the two contexts.
J.
If I have a lifestyle of not agreeing with my own thoughts, that is called slavery, not freedom--
Galatians 5
17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Paul already described sin as "slavery", because it is the spirit being forced to carry out the will of the flesh--that is why Christ says "whoever sins is a slave of sin" and why our salvation was typed by the Jews' salvation from "slavery". If you are not free to walk in agreement with your convictions, you are sinning, you are being enslaved. Sin is called slavery.
No, before the parable, Peter asks how many times he should forgive, and, after telling the parable, Christ says "So My heavenly Father will do TO YOU if you do not forgive", and this parable is part of the teaching which Christ commands His Apostles to disciple the nations according to, so, yes, it applies to us : the person who is forgiven can be unforgiven, and, according to Paul's explication, this indicates the possibility that faith can be removed from a believer, such that he becomes an unbeliever who was effectively never saved ("we have become partakers of Christ if we endure until the end"--if not, retroactively, he never became a partaker, it is "forgotten" (which is, in an odd way, OSAS)).
You're struggling badly here. All christians infract the law in their minds. If that makes them all slaves to sin they are all condemned.
Pauls usage of the words slave to sin speaks of a lifestyle of sin, not a slip, or mistake and then you are a slav e to sin.
If you asked nearly all christians if you had to be sinless to be in a saved state they would respond ''No'' for they know they are not without sin(1John1:8)
However, if you asked the same people if you could live a wanton lifestyle of sin/be a slave to sin, they would also respond ''No''(1 John3:9) Discernment!!
No.
In Galatians 5:17, the focus is on the struggle between the desires of the flesh and the desires of the Spirit.
Contextual Understanding
Conflict of Desires: The verse highlights a fundamental conflict within believers. The "desires of the flesh" represent sinful inclinations, while the "desires of the Spirit" reflect God’s will and guidance. This internal struggle indicates that believers are engaged in a spiritual battle.
Not Condemned, but Warned: The presence of this struggle does not inherently mean that the person is condemned. In the broader context of Galatians, Paul emphasizes that believers are justified by faith, not by works of the Law (Galatians 2:16). Thus, while the struggle exists, it does not result in condemnation for those who are in Christ.
Further Context in Galatians
Galatians 5:1: Paul states, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.” This indicates that believers are called to live in the freedom provided by Christ, which includes the struggle against sin without the burden of condemnation.
Galatians 5:18: Paul continues, “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.” Being led by the Spirit implies a transformative relationship with God, which is a sign of true faith.
While the internal conflict described in Galatians 5:17 is real for believers, it does not equate to condemnation. Instead, it illustrates the ongoing process of sanctification, where believers strive to align their lives with the Spirit's leading. The overarching message of Paul is one of hope and freedom in Christ, where believers, despite their struggles, are not condemned but empowered to live according to the Spirit.
Where I would disagree.
J.
Sorry that you're (intentionally?) misunderstanding me.
The rule is "each man must be fully convinced in his own mind"--infracting that Law of Faith is sin.
Sin, separately (but congruently) is defined as "slavery".
"Slavery" means "not free".
The desires of the flesh are against the spirit so that you are not able to do as you wish : Those who walk after the flesh, by not walking in their convictions, are not free to do as they wish but are enslaved.
Still waiting for you to answer Matthew 18.
The person who is not walking in faith is not walking in the Spirit thus they are entangled and not free to do as they wish--ie, they are sinning, they are enslaved, and are "condemned".
Im sure your eye has caused you to sin since you got saved. Have you still got two eyes?
Incorrect.
A person who is not walking in faith is not walking in the Spirit, which can lead to entanglement in sin and a sense of spiritual bondage. However, it is important to note that while such a person may struggle with sin and experience the consequences of their actions, they are not necessarily "condemned" in the eternal sense if they have genuine faith in Christ. Rather, they may be experiencing the discipline of the Lord, who lovingly corrects His children to restore them to a right relationship and freedom in Him.
All youve been doing here is deflecting and refusing to address what is put to you. You know Jesus stated if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out and throw it away. You haven't done that have you. So, are you in flagrant rebellion to Christ? Or, do you not always take scripture literally?
It's not "incorrect", because I never intended to indicate the condemnation had an "eternal sense", but that they are not justified in that moment (obviously, justification and condemnation are opposites), because justification is by God's righteousness by faith, which must be walked out. Without walking in faith, God's righteousness is not present to justify, thus the man is condemned (Ro 14:23)--and I've already described how the person can lose salvation. IF the person PERSISTS in that way, then, yes, their condemnation will lead to condemnation at the Judgment (eg "you are storing up wrath"--but there're only two categories he thereafter presents, those who will receive life, and those who will receive wrath).
1. I have deflected nothing at all.
2. Quit "deflecting", to use your terms, and answer Matthew 18.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
If we would judge ourselves we would not be judged
but when we are chastened of GOD it is so that we are not condemned with the world . yep .
For this cause many are sick ........
GOD does chasten . Yep . And the church ought to correct its memebers that are in sin as well .
But yes my friend . GOD does chasten . He sure does my friend . He sure does .
You continually deflect and tie yourself up in knotts. You could not tell me which law is in a believers heart and mind. As you do not always take the bible literalistically, neither do I. Jesus was giving a parable of warning to people not to waste what they are given. Everyone lets God down and does not use their talents as they should, apart from a very select few. What talent have you been given, to debate on the internet?
No, I believe this is not biblically correct.
This dialogue is "strained" and sounds like mortal and venal hamartia/Chet.
But thanks for the discussion.
I'm out of here.
J.
1. Nope, I've never deflected.
2. I answered with precision--God's Law.
I disagree : Christ says, explicitly, "So My heavenly Father will do TO YOU if you do not forgive". I take Christ at His Word, not just when it is convenient to my theology. This leads to greater understanding and the removal of confusion.
