John Calvin and Calvinism.

[praise_yeshua]

Yes the gospel tells man what He must do to be saved. but that has nothing to do with free will or predestination. It is a simple statement on how to be saved! Nopt how one gets saved, what is the mechanism of salvationb etc.etc.

And it is ot Calvin, but the bible that says believers are chosen by god and not man electing god!

So you tell someone how to get saved and that means they can't get saved?

It has always amazed me just how disconnected from realty Calvinist are. They actually expect people to not listen to what they say.

 

[reformed1689]

Double predestination isn't in Romans 6 nor 9. That is your false doctrine and why I rightfully say that you "blame God" for your position. God never said such. It is you imagination and you're saying that God said it. You're full of vain imaginations.

You hate your fellowman in the "name of God".

First, I did not say Romans 6, I said John 6. And yes, read Romans 9 again. Some are vessels of wrath, some of mercy and God decides which is which.

Right. The GROUP is chosen. IN Jesus Christ. Which means that Jesus Christ was chosen FIRST.....Which destroys your view of individual election. Not that you realized this. You are obviously not trained on the subject. Piper, White nor any Calvinist would make such a statement.

Never says group. Based on what context do you claim it is a group election and not individual?

Corporal Election. I believed it before it was ever defined by others. You promote your own imaginations. Not Jesus Christ.

This doesn't even deserve a response.

I'm glad you finally decided to share some evidence. You say that people don't know Calvinism but you do not define it yourself. They are varying groups that all have their varying "flavor" of "Calvinism".

In this case, you appeal to Particular Baptist. A group that Calvin rejected and mocked "baptists". Calvin doesn't claim you at all. You're being ridiculous appealing to the LCBF to establish Calvinism.

Again, I don't appeal to Calvin, I appeal to Scripture. Calvinism may have Calvin in the name but it has NOTHING to do with him. You realize this right? And trust me, Calvinists that hold to the WCF claim LCBF followers as Calvinist/Reformed. So don't be so stupid to say otherwise. You are grasping at straws here.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well that would be anyone who is against the Doctrines of Grace ;)

It is ridiculous to conflate Calvinism as the "Doctrines of Grace".

 

[reformed1689]

So you tell someone how to get saved and that means they can't get saved?

It has always amazed me just how disconnected from realty Calvinist are. They actually expect people to not listen to what they say.

Strawman argument.

 

[reformed1689]

It is ridiculous to conflate Calvinism as the "Doctrines of Grace".

Let's be honest, most people when they say Calvinism they are talking about soteriology, nothing else.

 

[praise_yeshua]

First, I did not say Romans 6, I said John 6. And yes, read Romans 9 again. Some are vessels of wrath, some of mercy and God decides which is which.

My mistake in reference. Either way, it doesn't change anything I've said.

Never says group. Based on what context do you claim it is a group election and not individual?

That is your untrained mistake. You didn't "tow" the Calvinist line. You were right. It is a GROUP referenced in Eph 2. PLURAL.

Don't change your mind now that you've made a mistake and deviated from Calvinism.

This doesn't even deserve a response.

Again, I don't appeal to Calvin, I appeal to Scripture. Calvinism may have Calvin in the name but it has NOTHING to do with him. You realize this right? And trust me, Calvinists that hold to the WCF claim LCBF followers as Calvinist/Reformed. So don't be so stupid to say otherwise. You are grasping at straws here.

You conflate Calvinism with one in the same with the "Doctrines of Grace" and then RUN from Calvinism ..... like mad when I show you're wrong.

You're not trained in Calvinism at all. You shouldn't be trying to defend it. You're making it look worse.

 

[reformed1689]

My mistake in reference. Either way, it doesn't change anything I've said.



That is your untrained mistake. You didn't "tow" the Calvinist line. You were right. It is a GROUP referenced in Eph 2. PLURAL.

Don't change your mind now that you've made a mistake and deviated from Calvinism.

This doesn't even deserve a response.




You conflate Calvinism with one in the same with the "Doctrines of Grace" and then RUN from Calvinism ..... like mad when I show you're wrong.

You're not trained in Calvinism at all. You shouldn't be trying to defend it. You're making it look worse.

Showed me I am wrong? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! All you have shown is ignorance. Nothing else.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Strawman argument.

Nope. It true to what you do. You tell Jesus Christ can save from sin and expect no one to listen to you.

 

[reformed1689]

Nope. It true to what you do. You tell Jesus Christ can save from sin and expect no one to listen to you.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I fear it is worse than that. I fear they do not understand the clear teaching of Scripture.

You can call me by name. I don't mind it. Don't "beat the air".

 

[reformed1689]

You can call me by name. I don't mind it. Don't "beat the air".

Fine, you don't understand, or worse, flat deny, the clear teaching of Scripture.

 

[praise_yeshua]

this false argument is used by those secretly trying to save their ego by saying it is the church as an entity that was chosen and predestined. That passes no test of rational thought and grammar and linguistics and the bible. God is the author of Grammar and He would not have used the pluraal personal for an impersonal entity!

When we use the words "us" or "we" what is being done is shortening naming all the individuals in the group or because all the individuals are not known but their admission to the group is, they are included.

Learn basic grammar.

Do you teach yourself or just others?

@reformed1689 said it was Plural. You should chide him as well. At least you know Calvinism enough to reject the argument from the beginning. Too bad he doesn't.

I've never seen you named among the Elect. Just where are you named?

If you're not named, then you have NO right to claim God chose YOU individually.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Fine, you don't understand, or worse, flat deny, the clear teaching of Scripture.

I wasn't talking to you. You can "beat the air".

 

[reformed1689]

Do you teach yourself or just others?

@reformed1689 said it was Plural. You should chide him as well. At least you know Calvinism enough to reject the argument from the beginning. Too bad he doesn't.

I've never seen you named among the Elect. Just where are you named?

If you're not named, then you have right to claim God chose YOU individually.

What do you think I said was plural and what was I meaning? Do tell because you have obviously misrepresented me.

 

[reformed1689]

I wasn't talking to you. You can "beat the air".

My point remains. You deny the clear teaching of Scripture, you go your own way you false teacher.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What do you think I said was plural and what was I meaning? Do tell because you have obviously misrepresented me.

You said it. I know what you said. If you've forgotten what you've said because you can't keep your lie straight, that isn't my problem. It is your problem. You said that Eph 2 is PLURAL.

 

[praise_yeshua]

My point remains. You deny the clear teaching of Scripture, you go your own way you false teacher.

I just have "Calvinism's" number.....

I mean seriously. A Protestant Calvinist appealing to the LBCF for evidence is rather silly.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What on earth are you talking about?

You preach the Gospel indiscriminately don't you?

You tell others that Jesus saves sinners. You even tell them how to be saved and you expect just a special few to listen......

It is maddening how silly such things are. It is like telling two colorblind men the sky is blue and expect one or both of them to not accept what you said.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you tell someone how to get saved and that means they can't get saved?

It has always amazed me just how disconnected from realty Calvinist are. They actually expect people to not listen to what they say.

See here is the problem with you! You demand to know who will and won't get saved. I don't! God knows His own, I don't. My job is to sow th eseed, it is Gods job to see if it blooms or not!

Remember teh parable of the sower- some seeds fall on the path and gone. So not everyone who hears the gospel will get saved!

Then there is the fact that all who live and NEVER hear the gospel have no chance to get saved!

And in your arrogant loathing of whom you call Calvinists, you lie about us! I care deeply that people would get saved! I wish no one to go to hell. I just know as jesus said, the vast majority end up there!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You can call me by name. I don't mind it. Don't "beat the air".

Well there is more thanjust you so I left it in teh plural. but yeah you are one! And I say that with not a drop of anger or animosity. Sadness yes, animosity, no.