John Calvin and Calvinism.

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you teach yourself or just others?

@reformed1689 said it was Plural. You should chide him as well. At least you know Calvinism enough to reject the argument from the beginning. Too bad he doesn't.

I've never seen you named among the Elect. Just where are you named?

If you're not named, then you have NO right to claim God chose YOU individually.

Really are you left with playing this childish game? YOu aren't mentioned either, so maybe you should give up pretending to be as follower then! Can we put aside this prepubescent silliness and speak as adults.

 

[praise_yeshua]

See here is the problem with you! You demand to know who will and won't get saved.

False. I claim no such thing. I have repeatedly said that the "Elect" (Plural) chosen in Jesus Christ (Corporal Election) are unnamed. Which means just that.

I don't! God knows His own, I don't. My job is to sow th eseed, it is Gods job to see if it blooms or not!

You claim individual election. As such, you should show that God names individuals. We have the individual Corporate head of the Elect in Jesus Christ. The Chosen of God.

Remember teh parable of the sower- some seeds fall on the path and gone. So not everyone who hears the gospel will get saved!

The parable of the sower is an appeal to what takes place in humanity. It is not a representation of God's will in humanity. No one within their right mind..... sows seeds among rocks expecting a harvest.

Good men use the "Gospel plow" to unroot rocks, trees, vegetation and etc. God sent Adam forth from the Garden to SUBDUE the land. To clear the ground. That is what faithful men do. Silly men cast seed among rocks. That is Calvinism at its finest. Throwing seeds everywhere without any effort to work the ground themselves. Lazy. Lazy Calvinists expecting God to do EVERYTHING for them.

Then there is the fact that all who live and NEVER hear the gospel have no chance to get saved!

That very fact destroys your argument for unconditional election. You make regeneration dependent upon the Gospel.

And in your arrogant loathing of whom you call Calvinists, you lie about us! I care deeply that people would get saved! I wish no one to go to hell. I just know as jesus said, the vast majority end up there!

You haphazardly cast seed without any effort to be a "fisher of men"......

Fisherman care about how they handle the bait. How they present the "bait". How they FISH for their target species.

Empty words from empty men. That is what Calvinism is.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

False. I claim no such thing. I have repeatedly said that the "Elect" (Plural) chosen in Jesus Christ (Corporal Election) are unnamed. Which means just that.

To us they are unnmaed, but not to God. IN timothy it is written god knows those who are His. Someone getting saved does not take god by surprise!

That very fact destroys your argument for unconditional election. You make regeneration dependent upon the Gospel.

I don't, the bible does! And if one is elect. god will get teh gospel to them! I am convinced I went to China in 1987 just to share with a tour guide who got saved and became a fierce disciple. God called them from the foundation of the world!

You haphazardly cast seed without any effort to be a "fisher of men"......

Fisherman care about how they handle the bait. How they present the "bait". How they FISH for their target species.

Empty words from empty men. That is what Calvinism is.

Do you know a farmer who has large fields who never loses seeds on unproductive grounds! God calls us to share the gospel! He will decide who gets saved or not! Thatr is not any6 humans business

Why do you make assumptions about me and then lie about me???

So if you live by this statement you just made, I guess you will only present bait to one you know you can hook, otherwise you don't wish to waste your time!

You claim individual election. As such, you should show that God names individuals. We have the individual Corporate head of the Elect in Jesus Christ. The Chosen of God.

So you don't believe in individual election because God doesn't have a scribe here on earth writing which by now would be a several million page book that has the name of every individual who is or will be saved? Wow are you a spoiled brat!

But He does have a book with all our names- in heaven. Get over yourself!

The parable of the sower is an appeal to what takes place in humanity. It is not a representation of the God's will in humanity. No one with their right mind sows seeds among rocks expecting a harvest.

Good men use the "Gospel plow" to unroot rocks, trees, vegetation and etc. God sent Adam forth from the Garden to SUBDUE the land. The clear the ground. That is what faithful men do. Silly men cast seed among rocks. That is Calvinism at its finest. Throwing seeds everywhere without any effort to work the ground themselves. Lazy. Lazy Calvinists expecting God to do EVERYTHING for them.

wow how much hate you have! Maybe you need to go to a faqrmer and find out what he uses a plow for. And Jesus said nothing about a plow, just a sower and his seed!

So you confirm again that you will only share the gospel to people YOU , IN YOUR ARROGANCE, think is good ground! WOW. See i obey God and spread the gospel to as many people as I can taking as much time as needed in teh hopes some of them may get saved.

Then I spend lots of time with the saved, teaching and maturing them in the faith.

I have shared the gospel in person on four continents and two oceans, how about you?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Really are you left with playing this childish game? YOu aren't mentioned either, so maybe you should give up pretending to be as follower then! Can we put aside this prepubescent silliness and speak as adults.

I'm not trying.... to be mentioned. I don't claim God individually elected me before the foundation of the world. That is your claim. We are vastly different in this.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Good men use the "Gospel plow" to unroot rocks, trees, vegetation and etc. God sent Adam forth from the Garden to SUBDUE the land. The clear the ground. That is what faithful men do. Silly men cast seed among rocks. That is Calvinism at its finest. Throwing seeds everywhere without any effort to work the ground themselves. Lazy. Lazy Calvinists expecting God to do EVERYTHING for them.

Well time for a little patting of my back. YOu have made it neccessary.

So you think me lazy. Can you top this:

1. I have been to China twice sharing the gospel, smuggling in bibles and Pastors libraries to the hidden church in china.
2. shared the gospel on the streets of Hong Kong (this was in the 80's)
3. Went to Argentina and shared the gospel in 3 cities.
4. Went to Israel and shared the gospel with Jewish people.
5. Shared the gospel to multipler people on several cruise ships.
6. Was a chaplain at a county jail for 8 1/2 years.
7. Taught on Radio
8. Taught on TV.
9. Had a regular letter in teh local newspapaer.
10. Had a letter publishedin time magazine.
11. Used to go on teh streets passing out tracts and sharing the gospel.
12. Went to parks to share the gospel.
13. Besides the usual passing tracts in stores, banks and places I do business.
14. PIcked up inner city kids for Sunday school and shared with them and their families who were unchruched!
15. Founded, funded and fed thousands through a food bank, I ran and paid fro in the name of Jesus!
16. Shared the gospel with 2 Pueblo Indian tribes in New Mexico!

If you have done more than that to get the gosdpel out, I will accept me as being lazy. But if not- Have some hoinor and apologize for spreading falsehoods.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm not trying.... to be mentioned. I don't claim God individually elected me before the foundation of the world. That is your claim. We are vastly different in this.

So you may not even be saved then! why are you writing here! This is for Christians only and Christians are saved/elect.

 

[praise_yeshua]

To us they are unnmaed, but not to God. IN timothy it is written god knows those who are His. Someone getting saved does not take god by surprise!

Yes. Paul told Timothy that God knows THOSE (Plural) that are His. Paul didn't say the rest of what you just said. That is your false narrative and ADDING to the Scriptures.

I don't, the bible does!

Yes. The Bible disproves Unconditional Election.

And if one is elect. god will get teh gospel to them! I am convinced I went to China in 1987 just to share with a tour guide who got saved and became a fierce disciple. God called them from the foundation of the world!

You can believe that all you want. That is your choice. A bad choice but your choice nonetheless. This is YOUR commentary. Not what the Scriptures declare.

Do you know a farmer who has large fields who never loses seeds on unproductive grounds! God calls us to share the gospel! He will decide who gets saved or not! Thatr is not any6 humans business

That is the exception. Not the rule. You're making the exception the rule. Do you see your mistake?????

We do not sow all our seed on rocks. We plow the ground. Sure. FEW will find its way to unproductive ground but that is the exception.

Why do you make assumptions about me and then lie about me???

I know what you teach and believe. I've spents thousands and thousands of lines debating your position. It is an empty feeble position that reflects the carnal nature of all men. It produces empty men that tell other men that God has purposed them for damnation without remedy and YOU believe you're not involved because you "think" God did it.....

Well ain't you special. All men are equal. All men are the same. All men have the same hope and remedy. It is the carnal mind that says otherwise.

So if you live by this statement you just made, I guess you will only present bait to one you know you can hook, otherwise you don't wish to waste your time!

Strawman. I concentrate on becoming a better fisherman. You don't care to be any better because you don't believe you have anything to do with it.

So you don't believe in individual election because God doesn't have a scribe here on earth writing which by now would be a several million page book that has the name of every individual who is or will be saved? Wow are you a spoiled brat!

Strawman. I don't believe in individual election because the Scriptures don't teach it. I know the Scriptures. Eph 2 is Plural and a corporate body with only the HEAD named among men. If you were named, you'd be equal with God. That is what you desire.

But He does have a book with all our names- in heaven. Get over yourself!

Plural.... you're pretending you can appeal to YOURSELF in that number. Get over yourself. I'm making all men equal. God will save you if you seek Him. He came seeking man. He expect men to seek Him now...

Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Funny... you tell me to get "over myself" and you're the claiming to be special at the expense of your fellowman.

wow how much hate you have! Maybe you need to go to a faqrmer and find out what he uses a plow for. And Jesus said nothing about a plow, just a sower and his seed!

God sent forth Adam to subdue the earth and till the ground. Nature itself teaches you that you don't throw seed just anywhere. You till the ground just like God told Adam to do. I expect we would all starve if you were actually the only farmer doing any work.........

So you confirm again that you will only share the gospel to people YOU , IN YOUR ARROGANCE, think is good ground! WOW. See i obey God and spread the gospel to as many people as I can taking as much time as needed in teh hopes some of them may get saved.

I explained the issue well. Your strawman is full of hot air. We plow the ground when we pass the Gospel across generations to faithful men......

Faith to Faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

2Ti 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

Then I spend lots of time with the saved, teaching and maturing them in the faith.

Yeah. Everyone seems to have their "few" and no more.

I have shared the gospel in person on four continents and two oceans, how about you?

I don't know how many I have reached. The internet is a BIG place. I suspect it is more than four continents and two oceans. I have a BIG target. God gets the increase. You seem to want it yourself.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So you may not even be saved then! why are you writing here! This is for Christians only and Christians are saved/elect.

I'm in that "multitude" that is beyond number. As a corporate chose IN Jesus Christ.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

You can have your few.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well time for a little patting of my back. YOu have made it neccessary.

So you think me lazy. Can you top this:

1. I have been to China twice sharing the gospel, smuggling in bibles and Pastors libraries to the hidden church in china.
2. shared the gospel on the streets of Hong Kong (this was in the 80's)
3. Went to Argentina and shared the gospel in 3 cities.
4. Went to Israel and shared the gospel with Jewish people.
5. Shared the gospel to multipler people on several cruise ships.
6. Was a chaplain at a county jail for 8 1/2 years.
7. Taught on Radio
8. Taught on TV.
9. Had a regular letter in teh local newspapaer.
10. Had a letter publishedin time magazine.
11. Used to go on teh streets passing out tracts and sharing the gospel.
12. Went to parks to share the gospel.
13. Besides the usual passing tracts in stores, banks and places I do business.
14. PIcked up inner city kids for Sunday school and shared with them and their families who were unchruched!
15. Founded, funded and fed thousands through a food bank, I ran and paid fro in the name of Jesus!
16. Shared the gospel with 2 Pueblo Indian tribes in New Mexico!

If you have done more than that to get the gosdpel out, I will accept me as being lazy. But if not- Have some hoinor and apologize for spreading falsehoods.

Impressive. You told them ALL that God destined MOST of them to hell without remedy.......

Impressively arrogant.

 

[PinSeeker]

You cared earlier. What changed your mind?

Nothing. I mean I do care about folks mischaracterizing what God has said. But I don't care about your clumsiness, because it is what it is, and I can't do anything about it, even if I wanted to. :)

Your mistakes are not my responsibility.

Agreed; nor yours mine. But I have made no "mistakes" in my conversation with you. Ah, but you think I have... Yeah, I'm fine with that.

Hypostatic is a reference to the PERSON of Jesus Christ. The Perfect union of two natures in One Person.

This is pretty much exactly what I just said...

Your appeal to "personal" is ridiculous.

Agreeing with you is ridiculous to you? I mean, on some things I agree, but on this particular thing, that's... such a strange, self-defeating thing to say. But, okay, yeah, you're your own person.

Google only gets you so far.

LOL! Yes, the good thing about the internet is you can find whatever you want to find. Likewise, the bad thing about the internet is that you can find whatever you want to find. :) But how you got here I have... no idea... except that I guess you're trying so hard to hit me with some kind of "gotcha"...

Grace and peace to you, PW.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This is pretty much exactly what I just said...

Nope. You said it meant "personal" and it doesn't. I'm glad you agree with me though. It does show you can change.

 

[reformed1689]

You preach the Gospel indiscriminately don't you?

You tell others that Jesus saves sinners. You even tell them how to be saved and you expect just a special few to listen......

It is maddening how silly such things are. It is like telling two colorblind men the sky is blue and expect one or both of them to not accept what you said.

I preach that Jesus died to save those who would believe in him. That is true. That is the elect. We do not know who the elect are now do we?

 

[reformed1689]

I just have "Calvinism's" number.....

I mean seriously. A Protestant Calvinist appealing to the LBCF for evidence is rather silly.

This post right here shows your ignorance on the matter. You literally have no idea what you are talking about and should really just quit.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I preach that Jesus died to save those who would believe in him. That is true. That is the elect. We do not know who the elect are now do we?

You preach double predestination. Which tells man that the vast majority of them are preordained to damnation without remedy.

 

[reformed1689]

You said it. I know what you said. If you've forgotten what you've said because you can't keep your lie straight, that isn't my problem. It is your problem. You said that Eph 2 is PLURAL.

Why don't you quote the post you are referencing. You are making some major assumptions here.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This post right here shows your ignorance on the matter. You literally have no idea what you are talking about and should really just quit.

Ridiculous. Silly Baptist have been trying to "worm their way" into the Protestant Reformation for hundreds of yes now.

Calvin didn't like you at all. He preached against your teachings. No real Calvinist would appeal to a particular Baptist decree to establish Calvinism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why don't you quote the post you are referencing. You are making some major assumptions here.

I'm debating. I'm not going to do your work for you. I know what you said. You go find it.

 

[reformed1689]

I'm debating. I'm not going to do your work for you. I know what you said. You go find it.

That's not how debating works, you made the claim, it is up to you to back it up. Otherwise you have nothing. So please, find my post, put it in CONTEXT and don't make outrageous claims.

 

[reformed1689]

Ridiculous. Silly Baptist have been trying to "worm their way" into the Protestant Reformation for hundreds of yes now.

Calvin didn't like you at all. He preached against your teachings. No real Calvinist would appeal to a particular Baptist decree to establish Calvinism.

Who cares what Calvin liked? I mean really. This has NOTHING to do with him. Why can't you get that through your head? And if you think you are getting to me by saying Calvin wouldn't like me because I follow believer's baptism? I got news for you, you need to try something else. Calvin didn't make the doctrines. They come from Scripture. Calvinism is just a label, nothing more. And here we are talking about soteriology, nothing else. So bark up another tree. You are wrong.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's not how debating works, you made the claim, it is up to you to back it up. Otherwise you have nothing. So please, find my post, put it in CONTEXT and don't make outrageous claims.

You made the statement and then denied making it. The onus is upon you.... not me.