John Calvin and Calvinism.

[reformed1689]

See. You don't know. Have you ever cared to know? You began with Calvin's mistake and you continue in Calvin's mistake. He cared about himself and fashioned a theology that would promote his fallacy that God choose him.

The answer escapes you and it is so very simple.

Exaltation.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Your name doesn't matter at all. His does. He will not share His Glory with you. God chose Jesus Christ for exaltation. Not you.

You aren't answering the question. Jesus was not chosen for salvation, he did not need saving. And yes, Jesus was chosen for exultation. I never claimed otherwise. NOR have I claimed I was chosen for exultation. Another strawman argument.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Another strawman. I never claimed to. But I am sure all Calvinists on this board would agree you have yet to actually accurately articulate any piece of Reformed Theology.

Your making a determination concerning me. Any determination requires an authoritative position or it is nothing more than your opinion. It doesn't matter if someone else agrees. It is still nothing without authority. You have none.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You aren't answering the question.

Yes I have. You just didn't like the answer. Jesus Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world to be exalted among the Saints of God. That has nothing to do with you. NOTHING.

Jesus was not chosen for salvation, he did not need saving. And yes, Jesus was chosen for exultation. I never claimed otherwise. NOR have I claimed I was chosen for exultation. Another strawman argument.

Yes you have. You claim Calvinism. Calvinism takes Scripture that appeals to the exaltation of Jesus Christ and perverts..... changes it... pollutes it.... with the silly idea that God has chosen YOU. God's "chosen/elect" is Jesus Christ. Everything starts and ends with Jesus Christ and YOU are not worth mentioning. You have no identity without Jesus Christ.... Yet Calvinism is always promoting some "supposed" choice by God in THEM.....

No God chose Jesus Christ for exaltation. No. Those Scriptures speak of the exaltation of Jesus Christ.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

You're not putting Jesus Christ first and you never will. You're more concerned about yourself. For all men seek their own.

Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

 

[reformed1689]

Yes I have. You just didn't like the answer. Jesus Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world to be exalted among the Saints of God. That has nothing to do with you. NOTHING.



Yes you have. You claim Calvinism. Calvinism takes Scripture that appeals to the exaltation of Jesus Christ and perverts..... changes it... pollutes it.... with the silly idea that God has chosen YOU. God's "chosen/elect" is Jesus Christ. Everything starts and ends with Jesus Christ and YOU are not worth mentioning. You have no identity without Jesus Christ.... Yet Calvinism is always promoting some "supposed" choice by God in THEM.....

No God chose Jesus Christ for exaltation. No. Those Scriptures speak of the exaltation of Jesus Christ.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

You're not putting Jesus Christ first and you never will. You're more concerned about yourself. For all men seek their own.

Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

You continually show you have no idea what you are talking about nor do you know ANYTHING about Reformed Theology. Of course we put Christ first. It is dumb to say we do not. And yes, God chose to save some people otherwise none would be saved. You realize that right? That has nothing to do with the exultation of Christ directly. They are two different subjects.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You continually show you have no idea what you are talking about nor do you know ANYTHING about Reformed Theology. Of course we put Christ first. It is dumb to say we do not. And yes, God chose to save some people otherwise none would be saved. You realize that right? That has nothing to do with the exultation of Christ directly. They are two different subjects.

No. They are the same subject. Your appeal to separating them is self serving. Just like Calvinism is self serving.

You can not have a proper theology while promoting yourself as the object of God's choice.

 

[reformed1689]

No. They are the same subject. Your appeal to separating them is self serving. Just like Calvinism is self serving.

You can not have a proper theology while promoting yourself as the object of God's choice.

Are you ever going to deal with what Reformed Theology actually teaches or keep lying about it?

How is it self serving. NOBODY is putting themselves above Christ in Reformed Theology. That is such a stupid comment to even make and shows your absolute ignorance on the topic.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are you ever going to deal with what Reformed Theology actually teaches or keep lying about it?

How is it self serving. NOBODY is putting themselves above Christ in Reformed Theology. That is such a stupid comment to even make and shows your absolute ignorance on the topic.

I explained how you are and instead of dealing with what I've said, you keep repeating the same line "you don't understand"......

That isn't a defense. I've been very detailed in what I've written. You should deal with what I've written instead of parroting the "floundering Calvinist" line of "you don't understand".

Like I've told you several times before. I've been dealing with trained Calvinists for a very long time. I know exactly what you teach. Exactly. I've detailed exactly how you are wrong in exalting yourselves to be "God's Elect" when it is Jesus Christ who is "God's Elect".

 

[reformed1689]

I explained how you are and instead of dealing with what I've said, you keep repeating the same line "you don't understand"......

That isn't a defense. I've been very detailed in what I've written. You should deal with what I've written instead of parroting the "floundering Calvinist" line of "you don't understand".

Like I've told you several times before. I've been dealing with trained Calvinists for a very long time. I know exactly what you teach. Exactly. I've detailed exactly how you are wrong in exalting yourselves to be "God's Elect" when it is Jesus Christ who is "God's Elect".

Do you know why I am saying you don't understand? Because you aren't describing what Reformed Theology believes. So no, you do not understand because you describe something different than what Reformed Theology is. I think you believe you understand but whatever you have been told is certainly not what I believe, nor what any other Calvinist I know believes. We do believe Christ is Supreme. We do not exalt ourselves, I really don't see how you come to that conclusion. WE are not denying our fellow man anything at all.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do you know why I am saying you don't understand? Because you aren't describing what Reformed Theology believes. So no, you do not understand because you describe something different than what Reformed Theology is.

That is your false narrative. I have accurately described what Calvinists believe. Show me where Calvinism teachings that Jesus Christ is God's elect. You can't. It doesn't teach such. YOUR theology teaches that YOU are God's chosen ones.

I think you believe you understand but whatever you have been told is certainly not what I believe, nor what any other Calvinist I know believes. We do believe Christ is Supreme.

Show me one single Calvinist confession that states that Jesus Christ is God's Chosen or that Jesus Christ is supreme. You can't. It doesn't exist. You're misrepresenting your own theology. That is what Calvinists do. When faced with their own failures, they conflate and deny. I know what Calvin wrote. I know the Synod of Dort and the Westminster Confession. I have debated this subjected with trained Calvinists for decades. You're floundering and you know it.

We do not exalt ourselves, I really don't see how you come to that conclusion.

As I have repeatedly told you and you refuse to acknowledge. You teach that YOU are God's chosen. YOU. Not Jesus Christ.

WE are not denying our fellow man anything at all.

Yes YOU are. You believe in double predestination. You believe that God preordained the vast majority of humanity to damnation without remedy. You can't deny this. YOUR THEOLOGY tells the vast majority of humanity that they have no remedy for their condition.

However, SURPRISE.... You claim the remedy for yourselves........Bad ole carnal man made doctrine....

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[reformed1689]

That is your false narrative. I have accurately described what Calvinists believe. Show me where Calvinism teachings that Jesus Christ is God's elect. You can't. It doesn't teach such. YOUR theology teaches that YOU are God's chosen ones.



Show me one single Calvinist confession that states that Jesus Christ is God's Chosen or that Jesus Christ is supreme. You can't. It doesn't exist. You're misrepresenting your own theology. That is what Calvinists do. When faced with their own failures, they conflate and deny. I know what Calvin wrote. I know the Synod of Dort and the Westminster Confession. I have debated this subjected with trained Calvinists for decades. You're floundering and you know it.



As I have repeatedly told you and you refuse to acknowledge. You teach that YOU are God's chosen. YOU. Not Jesus Christ.



Yes YOU are. You believe in double predestination. You believe that God preordained the vast majority of humanity to damnation without remedy. You can't deny this. YOUR THEOLOGY tells the vast majority of humanity that they have no remedy for their condition.

However, SURPRISE.... You claim the remedy for yourselves........Bad ole carnal man made doctrine....

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Don't you think it is the Calvinists who get to tell you if you are accurately describing what they believe? Not you?

Where Jesus is God's elect? God's elect to what? Salvation? That makes no sense. Jesus is God. Or do you deny that?

CHOSEN FOR SALVATION. Good grief you keep spewing nonsense.

The London Baptist Confession teaches Christ is chosen and supreme. So you lose that argument.

We teach the elect are God's CHOSEN TO SALVATION. That is not replacing Christ, Christ doesn't need salvation.

No I do not deny double predestination. But that is not ME denying fellow man anything. That is GOD denying some people salvation. There is a big difference. I am not God. You have a problem with God, not me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Don't you think it is the Calvinists who get to tell you if you are accurately describing what they believe? Not you?

Where Jesus is God's elect? God's elect to what? Salvation? That makes no sense. Jesus is God. Or do you deny that?

I've already dealt with this. You just didn't like my answer.

CHOSEN FOR SALVATION. Good grief you keep spewing nonsense.

No. You're not placing Jesus Christ first. You claim to be God's chosen. Neither the Westminster Confession nor the Synod of Dort state this fact. They BOTH do endless call themselves "the elect" of God.

The London Baptist Confession teaches Christ is chosen and supreme. So you lose that argument.

Where. Prove it.

We teach the elect are God's CHOSEN TO SALVATION. That is not replacing Christ, Christ doesn't need salvation.

No. Election is about Jesus Christ. Anyone that is "saved" is "IN" Jesus Christ. This isn't complicated. It is corporal choice wherein Jesus Christ ALONE is chosen and those who are "IN" Him are beneficiaries. We do not talk of ourselves. We talk of Jesus Christ.

However, Calvinists endless talk of themselves and rarely talk of Jesus Christ. Even when they do, they do so within the context of God choosing THEM and not Jesus Christ.

No I do not deny double predestination. But that is not ME denying fellow man anything. That is GOD denying some people salvation. There is a big difference. I am not God. You have a problem with God, not me.

That is not excuse. YOU willing preach this man made doctrine. God didn't say such. YOU are blaming God for your own silly choices.

You show you hate you fellowman by believing such ridiculous nonsense.

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[reformed1689]

I've already dealt with this. You just didn't like my answer.



No. You're not placing Jesus Christ first. You claim to be God's chosen. Neither the Westminster Confession nor the Synod of Dort state this fact. They BOTH do endless call themselves "the elect" of God.



Where. Prove it.



No. Election is about Jesus Christ. Anyone that is "saved" is "IN" Jesus Christ. This isn't complicated. It is corporal choice wherein Jesus Christ ALONE is chosen and those who are "IN" Him are beneficiaries. We do not talk of ourselves. We talk of Jesus Christ.

However, Calvinists endless talk of themselves and rarely talk of Jesus Christ. Even when they do, they do so within the context of God choosing THEM and not Jesus Christ.



That is not excuse. YOU willing preach this man made doctrine. God didn't say such. YOU are blaming God for your own silly choices.

You show you hate you fellowman by believing such ridiculous nonsense.

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

You obviously have not read Romans 9 or John 6 with regard to double predestination. Blaming God for silly choices? What on earth are you talking about? No, I don't hate fellow man, I just believe God when he tells us the truth, you obviously do not.

We were chosen to be in Christ before the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:4). Jesus is not the elect, the elect is PLURAL. Those whom he foreknew, he also predestined. That's not talking about Christ. There is no way you can twist that to be talking about Christ. Rarely talk about Christ? Are you crazy? You have no idea what you are talking about.

As far as the LCBF just read the FIRST PARAGRAPH on the section of Christ. But since you won't, I'll post it for all to see.

It pleased God, in his eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, his only begotten Son, according to the covenant made between them both, a to be the mediator between God and man; the b prophet, c priest, and d king; head and saviour of the church, the heir of all things, and judge of the world; unto whom he did from all eternity e give a people to be his seed and to be by him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You're not telling me anything I haven't heard many many times. You're not paying attention to what I said. You're falling into the trap that is "Calvin"....

The Gospel tells man exactly what to do. You can't ignore this. Calvin was full of malarkey.

Yes the gospel tells man what He must do to be saved. but that has nothing to do with free will or predestination. It is a simple statement on how to be saved! Nopt how one gets saved, what is the mechanism of salvationb etc.etc.

And it is ot Calvin, but the bible that says believers are chosen by god and not man electing god!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've never read your name anywhere in the Scriptures. Prove it. I have read....

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Well in that case- you have teh same trouble as me! for you don't appear in teh bible either. But laying that juvenile argument of yours aside-

Ephesians 1:4-5
King James Version

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


See I was chosen and predestined before god even created the Universe!

Ephesians 2 says a group was chosen in Jesus Christ. That doesn't establish individual election as you're teaching it.

Well you accept the faulty Armenius error! When Paul uses the term us- He is talking about the many individuals chosen by name! It is not some nameless generic faceless group. It is many individuals who make up the us!

Just like I can say: Well they chose us to go on teh4 cruise. that means it is a specific bunch of individuals who plurally become us! Learn grammar.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As I said. No one needs Calvin. Nobody needs a single word from Calvin. We have everything that Calvin had and MORE. He is nothing more than a carnal man.

And so isn't praise yeshua who is contradicting Calvin! So we don't need praise yeshua!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ephesians 2 says a group was chosen in Jesus Christ. That doesn't establish individual election as you're teaching it.

this false argument is used by those secretly trying to save their ego by saying it is the church as an entity that was chosen and predestined. That passes no test of rational thought and grammar and linguistics and the bible. God is the author of Grammar and He would not have used the pluraal personal for an impersonal entity!

When we use the words "us" or "we" what is being done is shortening naming all the individuals in the group or because all the individuals are not known but their admission to the group is, they are included.

Learn basic grammar.

 

[reformed1689]

this false argument is used by those secretly trying to save their ego by saying it is the church as an entity that was chosen and predestined. That passes no test of rational thought and grammar and linguistics and the bible. God is the author of Grammar and He would not have used the pluraal personal for an impersonal entity!

When we use the words "us" or "we" what is being done is shortening naming all the individuals in the group or because all the individuals are not known but their admission to the group is, they are included.

Learn basic grammar.

Like I said, praise doesn't even understand Reformed Theology and it is very evident by the arguments they put forth. It's nonsense what they are saying.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Like I said, praise doesn't even understand Reformed Theology and it is very evident by the arguments they put forth. It's nonsense what they are saying.

I fear it is worse than that. I fear they do not understand the clear teaching of Scripture.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You obviously have not read Romans 9 or John 6 with regard to double predestination. Blaming God for silly choices? What on earth are you talking about? No, I don't hate fellow man, I just believe God when he tells us the truth, you obviously do not.

Double predestination isn't in Romans 6 nor 9. That is your false doctrine and why I rightfully say that you "blame God" for your position. God never said such. It is you imagination and you're saying that God said it. You're full of vain imaginations.

You hate your fellowman in the "name of God".

We were chosen to be in Christ before the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:4). Jesus is not the elect, the elect is PLURAL.

Right. The GROUP is chosen. IN Jesus Christ. Which means that Jesus Christ was chosen FIRST.....Which destroys your view of individual election. Not that you realized this. You are obviously not trained on the subject. Piper, White nor any Calvinist would make such a statement.

Those whom he foreknew, he also predestined. That's not talking about Christ. There is no way you can twist that to be talking about Christ. Rarely talk about Christ? Are you crazy? You have no idea what you are talking about.

Corporal Election. I believed it before it was ever defined by others. You promote your own imaginations. Not Jesus Christ.

As far as the LCBF just read the FIRST PARAGRAPH on the section of Christ. But since you won't, I'll post it for all to see.

It pleased God, in his eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, his only begotten Son, according to the covenant made between them both, a to be the mediator between God and man; the b prophet, c priest, and d king; head and saviour of the church, the heir of all things, and judge of the world; unto whom he did from all eternity e give a people to be his seed and to be by him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified.

I'm glad you finally decided to share some evidence. You say that people don't know Calvinism but you do not define it yourself. They are varying groups that all have their varying "flavor" of "Calvinism".

In this case, you appeal to Particular Baptist. A group that Calvin rejected. Calvin mocked "baptists". Calvin doesn't claim you at all. You're being ridiculous in appealing to the LCBF to establish Calvinism.

 

[reformed1689]

I fear it is worse than that. I fear they do not understand the clear teaching of Scripture.

Well that would be anyone who is against the Doctrines of Grace ;)