Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[CadyandZoe]

Oh sorry; I should have specified "seed" or "flesh" because there are those who are incapable of understanding "genetics".

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The reality of Israelites in hell is immeasurably more striking and profound.

You missed the point again. We are talking about Jeremiah's prophecy and the fact that part of it has not yet taken place. His prophecy of the New Covenant comes in two parts: Part A, which has been fulfilled, and Part B, which hasn't. Anyone looking at this objectively will admit that there was never a time in history when it was said, "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord . . ."

Part A:
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

Part B:
“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[CadyandZoe]

Notice that Jesus did not pronounce any woes upon His disciples or anyone else who received His New Covenant and Blood.

Their house was not left desolate.

Because their house was and is the Church of the redeemed saints of God.

Of course, their house was not left desolate. But Jesus wasn't talking to them.

 

[CadyandZoe]

When we are absent from the body, where are we?

We are in the grave.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. ​

If the deceased are already in the presence of the Lord in heaven, there would be no logical need for them to rise up to greet Him, as they would have already attained communion with Him.

 

[WPM]

Rumpelstiltskin again- an attempt to discredit an argument by associating it with a disfavored group.

Jesus defends the concept of resurrection, comparing "the sons of this age" with "the sons of the resurrection." He quotes Moses to support his contention that the dead are raised. "For he is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him." What does Jesus mean by "all live to him?"

Jesus means to say that we find our existence in God. From God's perspective and his standpoint as our creator, we all exist, whether we have died or not. He isn't saying, one way or the other, whether our soul survives the death of our body. That would be to take his meaning beyond what he intended.

2 Corinthians 5:8 can be confusing if one has not followed Paul's argument, which began in 2 Corinthians 4:16. Here Paul encourages his readers with the idea that although "our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day." And though our outer man will pass away someday, God has another outer man prepared for us that will never pass away.

Given Paul's previous argument, 2 Corinthians 5:8 is an unbalanced metaphor. He says, "well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." To balance the analogy, Paul would have said, "well pleased rather to be absent from our mortal body and to be present with the Lord in our incorruptible body."

Why do you have to force a meaning on every text that is the opposite to its true meaning? You have this down to a fine art. The cults are masters of this. They too deny the deity of Christ.

 

[WPM]

We are in the grave.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. ​

If the deceased are already in the presence of the Lord in heaven, there would be no logical need for them to rise up to greet Him, as they would have already attained communion with Him.

So, their spirit and soul is living at the graveyard? What if they are cremated?

 

[covenantee]

You missed the point again. We are talking about Jeremiah's prophecy and the fact that part of it has not yet taken place. His prophecy of the New Covenant comes in two parts: Part A, which has been fulfilled, and Part B, which hasn't. Anyone looking at this objectively will admit that there was never a time in history when it was said, "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord . . ."

Part A:
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

Part B:
“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

There is nothing further that can be discussed.

I accept the complete fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecy as quoted in Hebrews 8.

You deny it.

End of discussion.

 

[WPM]

Jesus pronounced several "woes" on the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem, including his prediction that their house would be left to them desolate.

Mathew 23:37-39 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"

Jesus predicts Israel's House will be left desolate until the Second Advent. At that time, the scribes and Pharisees will say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! At that time also, God's covenant will come to pass when each man and his neighbor will know the Lord.

No, it will be too late then. The wicked will be forced to bow the knee and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord when He comes. This is the final general judgment when they will here those awful words: "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt 7:23).

 

[CadyandZoe]

Why do you have to force a meaning on every text that is the opposite to its true meaning? You have this down to a fine art. The cults are masters of this. They too deny the deity of Christ.

You have no actual rebuttal of my arguments which is why you resort to this kind of language. Try sharpening your argument, if you have one.

 

[WPM]

You have no actual rebuttal of my arguments which is why you resort to this kind of language. Try sharpening your argument, if you have one.

Countless arguments remain unchallenged. Just go back on the thread and you will see them.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, their spirit and soul is living at the graveyard? What if they are cremated?

The concepts of spirit and soul are intrinsically linked to our physical body; they cannot exist independently or in isolation. In the absence of a body, they become void, non-existent. Upon death, a person's consciousness ceases to be, marking the end of their earthly experience. This perspective aligns with the teachings of Jesus, who, through his interactions with the Pharisees, emphasizes the notion that true existence is found "in him," signifying our connection to the divine. In essence, when we pass away, we reside in the thoughts and intentions of God, awaiting the promise of resurrection, where we are brought to life anew.

 

[CadyandZoe]

There is nothing further that can be discussed.

I accept the complete fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecy as quoted in Hebrews 8.

You deny it.

End of discussion.

When was it ever said, "They will no longer need to say 'Know the Lord' because they shall all know me from the least to the greatest?'"

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, it will be too late then. The wicked will be forced to bow the knee and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord when He comes. This is the final general judgment when they will here those awful words: "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt 7:23).

This isn't true. You lack understanding of the concept of Parousia. Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord at the final judgment. But the Parousia takes place when Jesus returns to earth, standing on the Mt. of Olives, enters the temple through the east gate and Jerusalem says, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."

 

[WPM]

This isn't true. You lack understanding of the concept of Parousia. Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord at the final judgment. But the Parousia takes place when Jesus returns to earth, standing on the Mt. of Olives, enters the temple through the east gate and Jerusalem says, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."

No. Once again you twist Scripture. That is what heretics do. You cannot see it. It takes light to see.

It is pointless engaging with you. We just have to ascertain what is the wrong interpretation on each text and we will discover your position.

 

[covenantee]

When was it ever said, "They will no longer need to say 'Know the Lord' because they shall all know me from the least to the greatest?'"

Why do you deny Christ's Blood?

Christ's Blood is His Blood of His New Covenant. Matthew 26:28

When you deny His New Covenant, you also deny His Blood of His New Covenant.

That is blasphemous heresy.

 

[WPM]

The concepts of spirit and soul are intrinsically linked to our physical body; they cannot exist independently or in isolation. In the absence of a body, they become void, non-existent. Upon death, a person's consciousness ceases to be, marking the end of their earthly experience. This perspective aligns with the teachings of Jesus, who, through his interactions with the Pharisees, emphasizes the notion that true existence is found "in him," signifying our connection to the divine. In essence, when we pass away, we reside in the thoughts and intentions of God, awaiting the promise of resurrection, where we are brought to life anew.

Again, why do you have to assume a position that is repeatedly refuted in Scripture?

I am not wasting any more time on a heretics who denies the deity of Christ, aligns with the heretics on most subjects and opposes every plain truth in Scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, it will be too late then. The wicked will be forced to bow the knee and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord when He comes. This is the final general judgment when they will here those awful words: "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt 7:23).

Right. This second chance at salvation doctrine he believes in is a doctrine of devils. No one will get a second chance at salvation when Jesus comes.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When was it ever said, "They will no longer need to say 'Know the Lord' because they shall all know me from the least to the greatest?'"

That's been said for a long time already as the Holy Spirit has come to dwell in people who then know the Lord intimately because of Him dwelling in them and communing with them spiritually while teaching them who He is and what the scriptures teach about Him and what He expects from us. Instead of people having to tell us about the Lord, He tells us Himself through His Holy Spirit. That's how things are under the new covenant. It was not that way under the old covenant when the Holy Spirit was not yet poured out and did not yet come to dwell in people.

 

[Scott Downey]

When was it ever said, "They will no longer need to say 'Know the Lord' because they shall all know me from the least to the greatest?'"

I john 2, the Spirit of God teaches His people.

Let Truth Abide in You​

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.

The Children of God​

28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that [h]when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

*************************************************************************************
John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

~~~

41 The Jews then [g]complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life.

 

[WPM]

That's been said for a long time already as the Holy Spirit has come to dwell in people who then know the Lord intimately because of Him dwelling in them and communing with them spiritually while teaching them who He is and what the scriptures teach about Him and what He expects from us. Instead of people having to tell us about the Lord, He tells us Himself through His Holy Spirit. That's how things are under the new covenant. It was not that way under the old covenant when the Holy Spirit was not yet poured out and did not yet come to dwell in people.

But how were the OT saints regenerated without the internal work of the Spirit?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But how were the OT saints regenerated without the internal work of the Spirit?

I'm surprised you are asking this. Do you not see what happened at Pentecost as being unprecedented? You think the Holy Spirit was poured out and came to dwell in people before that?

I don't believe that the OT saints were regenerated in the same way that believers have been since the day of Pentecost. Why would Jesus have said this if this was something that had already been happening in OT times?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Wouldn't they have already had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them if that was something that was already happening in OT times? Yet, Jesus talked about it as something that had not yet happened and would happen in the future. And, it happened for them on the day of Pentecost.

What is your understanding of Jeremiah 31:34 if you don't think it relates to the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in people during NT times?

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

We know that this was fulfilled in relation to the new covenant because of what is written in Hebrews 8:6-13, right? So, what is your understanding of how it was fulfilled?