It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
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The Light
Well-Known Member
Don't you believe the same thing as WPM
Don't you believe like WPM?
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Because Christ returns at the 6th seal and there is a resurrection and rapture at that point, so new bodies is obvious.
As I said Jesus returns at the 6th seal.
The wrath of God is sudden and wholesale destruction. No one survives. Revelation 6:12-16 relates to the final destruction described in Isaiah 34 to the appearance of the Lord at the second coming, where the wicked finally receive their reward. The sixth seal says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
- This is a picture of the one-and-only future second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
- It’s shows the rescue, deliverance of God’s people.
- It’s shows the total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!
- This is the end!
So as to remove any confusion over the full extent of those that will be destroyed who are left behind, the Holy Spirit says: "the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man." Obviously if a human isn't "free" they are "a bondman" (or a slave).
This reading correlates with Revelation 19 and graphically describes the same apocalyptic scene. It shows what awaits those left behind at Christ's Coming. The book of Revelation is like that. It is a recapitulation of events approaching the second coming and things that attend it. Here, when the reality of their awful doomed state finally hits them, the wicked hide from the One that has come to destroy. Like Noah and Lot's day, their day of opportunity is gone. Without exceptions, all outside the ark (Christ) at the catching away will be destroyed, whether bond or free.
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The context of Matthew 24:22 and Mark 13:20 is clearly the destruction of Jerusalem.
In His discourse in Matthew 23:37-24:2 the Lord warns, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord (the second coming). Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The religious Jews of Jerusalem were about to witness the destruction of their temple. Moreover, that ruination would remain in place from its demolition right up until the second coming of the Lord. The desolation of the temple significantly occurred on the wing of 40 years of idolatrous temple sacrifices (exactly a generation)? The statement “there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down” was plainly referring to, and correlating with, the warning He had just made to the religious Jews about the impending destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. It was also a direct reference to Daniel 9.
Matthew 24:1-2 records, “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Christ was specifically speaking here of “the buildings of the temple” not the city. You cannot anywhere find that Israel is described as this. This is literal precise detail!
Mark 13:1-2 records, “And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here. And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
In this parallel account, Mark corroborates the thought of Matthew.
Luke 21:5-6 records, “And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The disciples then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words.
Matthew 24:3 records:
1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
Mark 13:4 records:
1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled (finished or ended)?”
Luke 21:7 records:
1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”
Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming.
In His response to the first question in Matthew 24:15-22, He spoke of the end of the 40 year probationary period (AD 70), saying, “When ye (the disciples) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”
Mark 13:14-20 says, “when ye (the disciples) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”
This can only refer to the wrath of God being poured out on Jerusalem that destroyed the existing socio-political/cultural/religious system of Judaism, which was an offence to God. This people were decimated. Their religious system was effectively brought to nought. Nothing before AD 70, or after it, could compare in regard to the extent of its demise. Luke 21:20-24 reinforces that we are looking at AD 70.
Luke’s parallel passage, in Luke 21:20-24, records, “when ye (the disciples) shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Whatever people are in view in whatever location (the Bible says Jerusalem and Judea not Johannesburg or Jaffa), they are limited if fleeing “on the sabbath day” (Saturday). This certainly isn't a restriction to American Christians, maybe Israeli ones. Now, why would such a matter be a limitation to one fleeing the great tribulation? Simple. Because of the strict Pharisaic Law in Israel at that time that restricted the actual distance a Jew could walk on the Sabbath day (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset), as it was a religious day of rest. Jews were only allowed to only walk three quarters of a mile on the Sabbath before they would break the day of rest. At the time of Jesus the Jewish authorities closed the gates of the city on the Sabbath; therefore flight from the city on that day would have been extremely difficult. How can the Futurists serious relate such a restriction (1) to the Church and (2) the period preceding "the end of the age"? This last assertion further supports the view that the Jewish capital is the setting and the Jews living in that city (prior to AD 70) are the subjects receiving this warning.
This is not true. This text is not saying that the wrath of God will last for one year as you imagine. It is telling us that this is the year that the judgment of God comes. That is it! To say otherwise is forcing your false teaching upon the sacred text. This is exactly why your teaching should be rejected by every Bible-believing Christian.
Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”
There is total destruction – for those left behind. Anyway, demons are not dissolved in Premil, they saturate its alleged future millennium 1,000 yrs after the second coming.
Revelation 6:13-17 records: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, andhide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!
Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
These people do not die to enter heaven. That would mean Jesus died to enter heaven, because they follow Jesus. You say they follow Jesus even through death. That is you adding physical death into the Word of God.
In chapter 7 they are on the earth and sealed. These 144k do go through Jacob's trouble called the GT. They are of Jacob. Calling them "the church" is forcing your opinion onto the text. There are only 144k Sealed on the earth. You are as bad as the JWs for forcing yourself into this group so you can go through the GT with Christ on the earth.
Here is the proof you avoided:
"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
Why are the 144k Sealed if they are not on the earth? What is being sealed even mean? How about a permanent incorruptible physical body that is impervious to natural death and the wrath of God, but still alive on the earth. These are with Jesus walking around on earth, in the fire as it were, of the GT judgments the next 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. Jesus is on the earth walking around with them as they are protected from God's wrath and anything Satan would do to kill them. They don't die as martyrs as you add that to Scripture, as Jesus will not have to die as a martyr either. If Jesus leaves earth, then they leave earth with Jesus, more than likely on white horses as they later return on white horses. Why does John have to spell out every last detail?
Can you show in Hebrews where Jesus needs to die the second time after coming the second time? If these humans are on the earth when they are sealed that is when they start following Jesus. Why would they have to die if they don't leave before the church, but are on earth with Jesus before they can enter heaven? Are you attempting to say they are not sealed until they die and enter heaven? If they are already in heaven, why do they have to be sealed for events on the earth? Do they come back before the Second Coming to the earth after being sealed in heaven?
John places the Lamb on the earth prior to these 144k even being sealed. Jesus is on the earth at the 6th Seal. Because all on earth can see that Jesus has come to earth.
All on earth can see both God on the GWT, and the Lamb as well and both can be seen as on the earth. The GWT has always been on both the earth and in heaven. We just cannot see it being spiritually blind.
"Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"
Isaiah said the earth was the base or footstool. Stephen repeated Isaiah just before being stoned to death in comparing what God actually was in reference to trying to place God into some temple built of stone or any temple for that matter.
"Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?"
Stephen then had his spiritual blindness removed and told them he could see:
"And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."
Do you not see that when the heavens roll back as a scroll, at the 6th Seal all spiritual blindness will be removed?
"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise."
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
Do you think the above is exactly the same as these verses?
"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened,"
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven."
"And I saw heaven opened."
Only Stephen saw heaven opened. Then only John saw heaven opened. There is a big difference between when heaven is opened for believers and when heaven and earth pass away for the lost. Even though heaven is opened in both instances. One could even say Stephen was raptured as they killed his physical body, and they did it violently, because Stephen explained what was happening and they hated him even more. So explain how the church would not be raptured while their physical body was being burned up and destroyed at the 5th and 6th Seal?
Then those on earth and the 144k who were sealed after that happened, and those hiding could see Jesus on the earth, and the 144k would follow Jesus who was now on the earth, but would not be affected by the judgments from God, nor the woes of Satan in opposition to Jesus being on the earth.
The Trumpets cannot start until the 7th Seal is removed from the Lamb's book of Life. The church has already been in Paradise since resurrection Sunday, and Stephen joined a few months later. Now almost 1995 years later that number has swelled to a multitude that cannot be counted, as no one even knows who or how many have even entered heaven during your alleged "thousand" years. But all the church has been serving God day and night for 2 millennia. So the church has been glorified and told to wait in heaven during the Trumpets and Thunders while the final harvest is gathered from those you allege as left behind. If they were the church, they would not be on the earth at all, but you claim some get to go through the Trumpets and Thunders nonetheless.
"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
This does not mean the church will be killed, nor left behind. This means some still need to be redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. But they are not the church. They are the firstfruits of those living on the earth during the Day of the Lord, that will arrive with the total destruction and removal of all sin and wickedness, starting with all the works burned up in the 6th Seal. The final harvest is for those living on the earth, not the church waiting in Paradise.
Taken
Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as a “forbidden premil theory”.
The Fact is…every individual human being shall be subject to and accountable for their own “consequence”.
If a living individual is NOT made whole Before the last days tribulations sent down from Heaven….that living individual SHALL experience portions or possibly all of the tribulations so sent.
And during the last days tribulations….some will, some will not become made whole...which has nothing to do with individuals who are already made whole.
Pretending there is no ORDER or WAY of God of who, when, how, why….God deals with each individual is false.
Humans are born, believe, doubt, deny, reject, make commitments, live, die, across a wide range of eras….and each individual is individually accountable PER Gods Order and Way…not a one fell swoop as you seem to project.
If the Rapture, which is established to occur BEFORE tribulations sent down from Heaven… does not APPLY you…okay, that has zero affect regarding me and others who are also made whole and shall be Raptured.
Glory to God,
Taken
Instead of voicing your opinion is, can you present Scripture to support your theory?
Taken
Well-Known Member
FREEWILL of mankind. You CHOOSE.
Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
EACH accountable for their own Choice…without an EXCUSE for / because of their Choice.
Romans 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Gods WRATH shall (once again be sent down from Heaven, called Gods TRIBULATIONS upon the Earth and its inhabitants.)
Rom 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
WHO is NOT appointed to Gods Wrath….
SAME kind of individuals NOT APPOINTED to Gods Wrath and Tribulations in the FIRST Great Tribulation sent down from Heaven…
WHO? Those God FOUND to be RIGHTEOUS having FOLLOWED, COMMITTED TO…Gods Order and Way TO BE MADE “EXCEPTED FROM…. DELIVERED FROM … tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth and it’s inhabitants.
WHAT did God FIND…SEE “IN NOAH”?
Gen 7:
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
WHAT was Noah & his households CONSEQUENCE?
Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
WHY ? To destroy the non-righteous WITH the Earth ..
Gen 6:
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gods REQUIREMENT…ONE DEATH of Every manKind of Being.
Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Heb 9:
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Jesus’ OFFERING…A mans CHOICE to accept / take / have/ process…… or reject.
A Spiritual Death… (ONE DEATH requirement SATISFIED, crucified WITH Jesus) bodily alive…YET accounted bodily Dead, having WILLED their * BODY, unto Death for the Lord God…
(Called a living sacrifice….
(Rom 12:1)
as ALL mens WILLS are made BEFORE they physically die)
* ACCEPTED, Gods (terms) Order and Way for the Lord God to RESTORE
(Pss23:3) their soul, called SAVED.
* ACCEPTED, Gods (terms) Order and Way for the LAMB of God to accept their own WILLED body unto Death for the Lord God.
* ACCEPTED, Gods (terms) Order and Way
For the Spirit of God…(to ENTER and DWELL WITH-IN) that man.
*ACCEPTED, Gods (terms) Order and Way For the Spirit of God…(to MAKE changes WITH-IN) that man.
ACCEPTED…Gods (terms) Order and Way for that mans (body, soul, spirit) to become MADE … WHOLE: Forgiven, Covered, Washed, accounted Righteous, SANCTIFIED, Forever with the Lord God, Forever the Lord God with that individual….
AND NOT subject to, appointed to tribulations and wrath sent DOWN from Heaven….RATHER ARE already accounted as DELIVERED FROM the tribulations and wrath to come.
1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us IN CHRIST to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Col 1:
[13] Who hath delivered us (IN CHRIST) from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1Thes.1
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us (IN CHRIST) from the wrath to come.
Luke 17:
[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Noah, being seen righteous BY God, was delivered UP above the earth, WHILE Gods tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven was DESTROYING the earth and destroying the earths UN-righteous inhabitants with the earth.
Revealed …a first great tribulation was sent down from heaven and
Foretold….a second (and last) great tribulation shall be sent down from Heaven.
Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
AND LIKE NOAH…who is delivered from the so sent tribulations from Heaven…?
Not a secret….EXPRESSLY…those “IN Christ”!
1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
You have an ISSUE with my Belief, that you call an Opinion and Theory…?? Eh…I call it Gods Revealed Truth, which I chose to TRUST and Accept Gods TRUTH…
Your claims FOR ME…AGAINST ME…make no difference in the Express relationship between the Lord God and Myself and that which He has “already” delivered me from and appointed me to.
Noah being “caught up”…”lifted up” above the Earth..BEFORE the first great tribulation sent down from Heaven….
MY choice to trust and believe…as it is your choice to deny and reject.
Those in Christ being “caught up”…”lifted up” above the Earth…BEFORE the second/last great tribulation send down from Heaven…
MY choice to trust and believe…as it is your choice to deny and reject.
Seven DAYS….Seven YEARS…is not so much about the “time frame”….as it is about the number SEVEN completing a cycle of corrupt to acceptable unto God.
What does SEVEN have to do with NOAH…?
He / and household were IN the Ark for SEVEN days BEFORE the rains began to fall.
(Gen 7:4)
I can not read FOR you.
I can not study FOR you.
I can not believe FOR you.
I can not understand FOR you.
I am not accountable FOR your choices.
Inasmuch as Noah was Delivered UP above the face of the earth…From the earths FIRST destruction …SO ALSO are they IN CHRIST, when the second / last destruction of the Earth shall be manifested.
Glory to God,
Taken
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This is a typical mishmash of Scripture and private opinion that dies not add up. I hope you know what your point is.
Taken
Well-Known Member
You asked for according to scripture….
You were given the answer according to scripture….
No other person is accountable to you for your inability to spiritually understand a spiritual teaching of Gods word.
BTW…if you were not gifted with spiritual understanding, it is “supposed” to be received unto you, as you say “mishmash”….
1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Which you have simply revealed you are wholly unqualified to be a mouth-piece regarding the spiritual event called the Rapture, in such that being the Order, way, timing event Christ calls “His Church” members to meet their Lord in the air, above the face of the Earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
More avoidance. Can you show me any Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven year tribulation, followed by a third coming?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your avoidance claim is a False testimony against me…you shall be accountable for.
Already did what you ASK FOR…. but not my job to understand spiritual understanding of the Scriptures FOR YOU.
Not my job to add up the months, days, years for you.
Not my job to explain to you your own language of a …
When you can NOT comprehend “earthy things”….how do you suppose you are equipped to comprehend “spiritual things”?
God has Numerous NAMES and TITLES…and if you paid close attention…
Lord God Almighty is ONE GOD….whose particular “TITLES” inform which FUNCTION / TASK is performing WHAT…(that may or may not apply to “ALL” men.)
No different than ONE man…who has many names, many titles….and such titles inform which FUNCTION / TASK is performing WHAT….(that may or may not apply to “ALL” men.)
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
You have been quite clear that it is a “waste of your time”
TO; read, study, learn, discover ALL that DOES and DOES NOT apply to a man IN Christ.
Even a Child can READ the express words IN Revelations…is a TIME of WRATH and its effects of Tribulation UPON the whole WORLD and the INHABITANTS UPON the WHOLE EARTH…
* Wrath From Heaven……………….Rom 1:8
* Wrath Upon the whole world….Rev 3:10
* Wrath of the Lamb…………………Rev 6:16
* Wrath From Heaven….……………Rom 1:8
* Wrath Upon the whole world….Rev 3:10
* Devils Wrath……………………….…Rev 12:12
* Wrath From Heaven……………….Rom 1:8
* Wrath Upon the whole world....Rev 3:10
* God Wrath……………………………..Rev 16:1
* Wrath From Heaven………………..Rev 1:8
* Wrath Upon the whole world..…Rev 3:10
* Delivered FROM the Wrath to Come
1 Thes 1:10
2 Cor 1:10
Because it is a “waste of your time”….
To read, learn, know, understand, believe….
WHO,
WHEN,
HOW,
WHY,
“Some ARE DELIVERED From the Wrath to Come”….and TO WHERE they are Delivered….”
* You get to remain with the ignorant, without the Truth, and pipe up with false and snarky remarks against those who ARE perfected “IN” the Truth and Power of God and ARE delivered “FROM” the Tribulations and Wrath sent down “FROM” Heaven upon the whole world.
I have no reservation claiming my standing is “IN Christ Jesus”…and Know and Understand what such standing MEANS….regardless of your lack of knowledge and understanding and your own testimony it is a “waste of your time” to discover the knowledge and gain the wisdom to the understanding thereof.
Glory to God,
Taken
Keraz
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The faithful people, those who fully trust the Lord through all that must happen, are not taken anywhere.
Protection for His people:
Psalms 23:4 Even if I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.
Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.
Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.
Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.
Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.
Daniel 3:25 An angel protects the 3 men in the furnace. THEY weren’t taken out of it!
Jeremiah 30:7 How terrible is that Day….yet Jacob [Israel: My people] will come thru it safely.
1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.
Psalms 9:10 The Lord does not abandon those who seek Him and trust in Him.
2 Peter 2:9 God knows how to rescue the godly from their trials.
Psalms 18:3 I shall call upon the Lord, then I will be made safe.
Psalms 31:23-24 The Lord protects the faithful. Be strong, all you whose hope is in the Lord.
Psalms 64:10 The righteous rejoice, their refuge in the Lord.
Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10
Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.
Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.
Psalms 91:1-16 ...He will rescue you, you will not fear the terrors abroad.
Psalms 121:1-8 Our help comes from the Lord, He will guard your life.
Psalms 109:31 The Lord stands at the right hand of the poor and saves them from trials.
Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.
Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.
Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.
Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.
Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.
Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.
Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.
Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time, Your people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.
Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people and a defence for Israel.
Isaiah 65:9b My chosen ones will take possession of the land, those who serve Me will live there.
Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings. Apoc.
Reference: Revised English Bible.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes…the Lord KEEPS His CHURCH Safe FROM the wrath and tribulations sent down from Heaven upon the whole Earth….
Too bad you REJECT Gods Own word of HOW the Lord Keeps His CHURCH Safe during the wrath and tribulations sent down from Heaven.
1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be “caught up” (RAPTURED) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
FYI…
Christ’s Church is NOT man-made buildings…
Christ’s Church is WITH-IN sanctified men perfected IN Christ.
And Yes, they SHALL be called and taken UP in the clouds and delivered unto their Lord in the air.
I guess you can kick and scream in protest demanding you remain on earth during the wrath and tribulations sent down from heaven….
But there is NO mention of a MISSION or A TASK for the Church to perform, to preach or to accomplish DURING the Tribulation….
What are you going to be doing….?
How come you never speak of that ^ ?
Taken
Well-Known Member
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