It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The SEAL may in fact be opened.
This does not mean that they are ACTUALISED, since ALL things are under the control of God including timing of events.
see my post 1239.
The seals which Jesus opened allowed for everyone in heaven at the time, including John to see the visions hidden within the book.
It's like there being a seal on your laptop. The seal is removed, and your laptop is opened... and then you can see the videos (visions) playing on the screen.
The Light
Well-Known Member
I think I'm going to have to go with the Word on this one.
Revelation 4
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit:.....................................
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
ABSOLUTELY TRUE @Douggg
Douggg, never be afraid to believe exactly as "It is written".
Douggg, if pre-trib rapture were truth, God would of said it very clearly to us in His word.
Believe the words of JESUS:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Yes, but we are talking about the things of Revelation 5.
We have this..............
Revelation 4
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hereafter is the same as prophecy.
Brother, this is not complicated as men want it to be so that they can exploit you.
Look here at the words of JESUS at the End of Revelation chapter 22
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
Some things ARE = the message to the seven churches = is for ALL churches, past present future
Many things are yet to come! = we are getting closer by the day
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Light
Well-Known Member
Exactly my point
I know it's not complicated. The Word tells exactly the timeframe being talked about. And I don't know of anyone trying to exploit me beyond computer scammers at this time.
Which is why I qualified what was being talked about.
Revelation 4
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
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The Light
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Light
Well-Known Member
The things that happen here after.
Yes.
Who was the last Martyr?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This is Truth/generality - i was wondering if you had specifics - but is OK
You said "YES" but i am inclined to follow all of scripture on this.
Your answer is: "Who was the last Martyr?"
Your answer is a non-answer = Do you know why?
JESUS gives us the CORRECT answer to: "Who was the first Martyr" = it was "Abel"
Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,
from(Beginning with) the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation. - Luke 11:51
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Time to give postrib debunked made up rapture with zero verses a burial.
They have No debate skills anyway.
They have No debate skills anyway.
Both sides make excellent arguments against the other side. If y’all could come together you would realize that you’re arguing over a fairy tale.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
In the postrib rapture side, I have never seen an argument supporting a postrib rapture.
I see them saying " Jesus was mistaken about a 50% dynamic of taken/left"
Or that "Jesus must be perverted with all those brides in mat 25"
Or that "acts 1 is mistaken, and Jesus will return in an opposite manner than his ascension "
Or that "the components in the virgin parable must be changed".
Or that rev 14:14 "is not Jesus on a cloud with a sickle, he is on a horse with millions of horses blackening the sky."
IOW, They are bible debunked,and actually changing verses.
Is there a thread that lays out a postrib rapture from the Bible?
Something where they convince me my bible is wrong?
I have seen many YouTube videos where they "lay out a postrib rapture".
Uh no they do not.
They are obsessed with debunking pretrib
Every single one of them.
They can not make a case.
They just can not.
Postrib rapture doctrine is the empiest wagon on the trail....with no verses.
David, Matthew 24:31 is not referring to the rapture. That verse is referring to the gathering of the Jews from the nations of the world to the land of Israel.
It is a promise that God made to the children of Israel in Deuteronomy 30:1-6. Compare verse 4 to Matthew 24:31.
Deuteronomy 30:
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Matthew 24:
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. Says the guy whose idea of debate is just making a bunch of claims without exegeting any scripture at all and doing aboslutely nothing to back up his claims. Talk about no debate skills! You literally have none and you prove that with every incoherent post you make.
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