It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[rebuilder 454]

There is no guessing in TRUTH that a child can SEE.

JESUS says HE is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation for His elect/saints/chosen.

This is classic pre-fib = no scripture to proclaim pre-trib rapture.

Post the scripture or continue to believe the lie that it exists when it does not.
And even worse, be adamant that the lie is truth!!!

Lol
Your doctrine has the rapture at the white horses.
Post wrath.
So ridiculous.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no guessing in TRUTH that a child can SEE.

JESUS says HE is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation for His elect/saints/chosen.

This is classic pre-fib = no scripture to proclaim pre-trib rapture.

Post the scripture or continue to believe the lie that it exists when it does not.
And even worse, be adamant that the lie is truth!!!

Just copy and paste that post.
It is all you have left.

 

[The Light]

For me I found Amill in the NT. Honestly. I was Amill without knowing it, being unfamiliar to the premill, post mill, amill debate.

Once I started studying I was pre wrath which is post trib. Amil thinks they are post trib. They are really post wrath.

More studies led to two rapture, one pretib for Church and one pre wrath for the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman. The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection will remain on earth during the wrath of God.

I always believed what Jesus said about his coming, especially Matt 25. It ends with God's intervention in human affairs for judgment and removal of all the ungodly.... like Noah's day.
2Peter 3 refers back to this in describing the promise of his coming, as the ungodly world scoff at the idea of it.

It is not the ungodly that are removed from this world. It is the Godly that are raptured to heaven will the wrath of God takes place on the earth. The Godly are at the marriage supper of the Lamb when those trumpet and vials of wrath are taking place.

His promise to Israel was Jesus. The sheep of Israel. He has other sheep that he must bring also. We are all sheep if Believe. It's by Grace not race.

Right, there are other sheep not of this fold, that He must also bring. What fold?

Everything in order. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming. Christ comes for the sheep that hear his voice, the Church. Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes. They become Christians. Then Jesus returns at the 6th seal. Then they that are Christs at His coming are also raptured. The second harvest.

Two folds into one fold.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we may boldly say:

“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

Calling scripture 'baloney' is the Devils banquet.

Jesus told his disciples " not a hair on your head will be harmed"
All but one were martyred.
Murdered by the devil
All postribbers are also martyred.

But no doubt you can not quote them, nor do you investigate.
All you know is "orange man bad".
Ignorance is the fabric postrib rapture is woven from.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Unfortunately, me being juvenile and cheap according to you, which may even be true in this case, is the least of your worries once great tribulation is upon us big time and that all of you Pretribbers are still here. Apparently, that is the only thing that is going to convince you that you have been wrong all along. But then it might be too late since some might want to take the easy way out yet again, but this time by falling away and worshiping the beast instead. I'm not saying that will happen. I'm saying it's a possibility the fact Pretribbers are notorious for wanting to find ways to escape the inevitable, that the church will go through great tribulation from start to finish. And one way to escape great tribulation would be by worshiping the beast since it wouldn't be persecuting and killing anyone worshiping it.

Don't you just hate it when The baby Jesus and Lot escaped all that slaughter?
God could have left them there.
How escapist of God to not leave them there.
Could be you have stumbled on a flaw in God himself.

 

[rebuilder 454]

1. There is no ushering the Church into heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
2. There is no tribulation period in-between “the coming of the Lord” (and the catching away of the saints) and “the day of the Lord” (and the sudden destruction of the wicked, from which none escape) 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9. This is one event.
3. There is no 3rd coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.
4. There are no survivors in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5. None shall escape.

How ridiculous of those pretribbers to think mansions in heaven are going to have any people in them.
Or the bride taken by the groom to His Father's house.
But wow, how did all those saints get to heaven in Rev 19.
Maybe it will just remain a mystery.

....in certain doctrines

 

[David in NJ]

Lol.
Stop acting like they don't exist.
We have stuck your nose in mat 24:38 and Rev 14.14
Acts 1
The 2cescape verses.
Lot
Noah
The baby Jesus
All gathered and moved PRETRIB.
You have been shown the Antichrist kills every single living person that refuses the mark. You have been shown that the Saints left during the tribulation "overcame the Antichrist by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death"
.... every single one of them gets martyred.
All the disciples save John were murdered by the devil.
No protection for them
No protection from the AC. All saints left behind die.
Now twist all that.
No you will totally ignore it.

@MA2444 @The Light

Matt 24:38 = DURING & AFTER the Tribulation and BEFORE the WRATH

Rev 14:14 = AFTER the Tribulation/Persecution of the saints in Rev ch14 verses 9-13

FIRST the WARNING: do not take the Mark = Rev ch14 verses 9-11

SECOND = the saints are put to death for not taking the Mark = Rev ch14 verses 12-13

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,
“Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

THIRD = "AFTER the Tribulation of those days" verse 14 = Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus told his disciples " not a hair on your head will be harmed"
All but one were martyred.
Murdered by the devil
All postribbers are also martyred.

But no doubt you can not quote them, nor do you investigate.
All you know is "orange man bad".
Ignorance is the fabric postrib rapture is woven from.

Jesus told his disciples "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake"

Jesus told His disciples: "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."

His Apostles say: "that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know."

His Apostles say: "we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

Turn away from the lie of pre-trib and turn towards JESUS who never spoke a lie.

 

[MA2444]

The underlying reason is that they are embarrassed.
What a hard job (we all) have.

I like that to myself as, we are all on the same path of the Lord. The narrow path. So it's like the Yellow Brick Road. We all walk the Yellow Brick Road, but some are ahead of us and some are behind us on the road. Not a huge deal unless missing the rapture is a concern for you? It is to me. I hope and pray that I be found worthy to escape what is coming upon the earth! So some are ahead of us and some are behind us. This equates to learning in a way. Some are younger Christians in Christ and some have been pressing in for awhile now!

Besides, we're all one body in Christ. So maybe they are of the ankle where others are of the elbow. They have different tasks in their specialty. So how could an ankle understand an elbow. It cant. All one body but got taught the same yet differently at the same time. The same truth, but us humans have trouble seeig the bigger picture.

I fixed the 2nd line of your quote, lol! (Right?)

 

[David in NJ]

The Straight and Narrow Path leads to the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE

LYING against the words of God is a HUGE deal = a Deal that satan makes with christians who believe the lie of pre-tirb rapture

#1 - The pre-fibbers first claim it is true but when asked for the scriptures they come up empty.

#2. - they then resort to more lies by adding to God's words what HE never said = "Left Behind" = Proverbs 30:5-6

#3. - then they falsely accuse and say: "The carnal mind cannot understand the spiritual" = Diversion from the TRUTH


3 Strikes you're out

 

[MA2444]

This is NOT what the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles teach us.

This is avoidance from Scripture to protect yourself from being discovered by the Holy Spirit.

You choose to hide in the Garden and have covered the nakedness of the sin of pre-trib by choosing a false covering = ignore the Holy Scriptures, cast aversion and accuse the Truth as being carnal.

Can you hear yourself? Why are you taking that tone with a Brother in Christ? That's not right and goes against scripture. Why dont you have peace in your spirit towards believers who have differing veiws? That hardly seems rational.

Do you think I'm lying? Am I out to subvert the truth of the Lord and cause other Christian Brothers & Sisters to lose their salvation somehow or something? (LOL!!). No Brother.

I mean, how can to be watching for the Lord now and every day possibly cause spiritual harm to other Brothers & Sisters in their faith, or myself, when watching for Hm sooner than you post tribbers which only serves to draw me closer to God, and sooner than a post trib view? Watching now for the Lord, means drawing closer to the Lord right now! How can you look for the Lord and somehow be sinnig? You cant!!

All I gotta say is, man, you post tribbers are trying to see an evil agenda where there is none. If I make an error...it will be an error of Faith. So I appreciate your sentiment but, no sir, I have much peace in my spirit that I do the right thing by drawing closer to the Lord while I have tha chance.

But you dont have to believe me. Go read it for yourself, prayerfully this time.
If all you want to is argue about doctine then I caution you Brother, that it is a mistake to do that.

Jesus started the Olivet Discourse and ended it wth the same admonition to us all...Do not be deceived.
So your animosity is rejected Brother. Hope to see you shake that off.

 

[MA2444]

The Straight and Narrow Path leads to the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE

LYING against the words of God is a HUGE deal = a Deal that satan makes with christians who believe the lie of pre-tirb rapture

#1 - The pre-fibbers first claim it is true but when asked for the scriptures they come up empty.

#2. - they then resort to more lies by adding to God's words what HE never said = "Left Behind" = Proverbs 30:5-6

#3. - then they falsely accuse and say: "The carnal mind cannot understand the spiritual" = Diversion from the TRUTH


3 Strikes you're out

Wow! You got it all figured out, havent you? Lol. I'm sorry to hear to hear that Brother. I'll pray for you to get Wisdom & Understanding from the Lord alone. Fair enough?

And what do you mean Jesus never said said, "left beind"? One will be taken and one left. Two are in bed, one taken and one left, tw at the mill, one will be taken, the other left...

Any doctrinal issue you think you have proven must agree with the entirety of scripture, but you know that, so we can go from there. If all of scripture doesnt agree with your premise, then it a wrong premise. Make sense?

 

[MA2444]

There is no guessing in TRUTH that a child can SEE.

JESUS says HE is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation for His elect/saints/chosen.

This is classic pre-fib = no scripture to proclaim pre-trib rapture.

Post the scripture or continue to believe the lie that it exists when it does not.
And even worse, be adamant that the lie is truth!!!

What is that? Pre trib = no scripture which proclaims a pre trib rapture? That is as bad of a question that it would be if I asked you, Where is the scripture that says unequivocally that the rapture is absolutly after the great trib? Because it isnt there.

Wow. maybe I need to read it all agin, lol. With no Holy Spirit this time! (Lol) then I could understand you and your animosity. Which is totally misplaced by the way. But I forgive you. I know all this stuff can be hard things to understand.

I would suggest that you try to learn to be able to set aside all of your preconceived notions and approach the study with homble attitude of, (Suppose I am wrong). I cant answer a question to you if you have alredy made up your mind!

Is your faith so weak that you can't set aside your beliefs long enough to take a good hard look at the evidence being presented to consider if it may be right? Have you ever been wrong before about anything?

I've never been wrong. (LOL) you know that aint true. We all have been wrong. Even in scientific circles. There is a theory that...Physics are constans in the universe. We we're all taught that in school. But a few years ago, they discovered that...that is not true. The Constants are changing, thus not constant. (Scientific American June 2005 eidtion, available online to read.)

Your animosity is rejected again Brother. I'll pray for you.

 

[Davidpt]

But wow, how did all those saints get to heaven in Rev 19.
Maybe it will just remain a mystery.

Why can't the dead in Christ explain them? After all, great tribulation precedes what is recorded in Revelation 19. Then look what the following records.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Initially all of these were physically alive at some point. Then because of great tribulation they lost their lives, thus are then in heaven in a disembodied state awaiting the resurrection of their bodies. These would be among those that rise first. These are not meaning Pretribbers who allegedly came out of great tribulation by being raptured out of it. These are martyrs. Pretribbers are not mayrters if they are allegedly raptured out of great tribulation. That hardly fits the definition of a martyr.

 

[David in NJ]

Can you hear yourself? Why are you taking that tone with a Brother in Christ? That's not right and goes against scripture. Why dont you have peace in your spirit towards believers who have differing veiws? That hardly seems rational.

Do you think I'm lying? Am I out to subvert the truth of the Lord and cause other Christian Brothers & Sisters to lose their salvation somehow or something? (LOL!!). No Brother.

I mean, how can to be watching for the Lord now and every day possibly cause spiritual harm to other Brothers & Sisters in their faith, or myself, when watching for Hm sooner than you post tribbers which only serves to draw me closer to God, and sooner than a post trib view? Watching now for the Lord, means drawing closer to the Lord right now! How can you look for the Lord and somehow be sinnig? You cant!!

All I gotta say is, man, you post tribbers are trying to see an evil agenda where there is none. If I make an error...it will be an error of Faith. So I appreciate your sentiment but, no sir, I have much peace in my spirit that I do the right thing by drawing closer to the Lord while I have tha chance.

But you dont have to believe me. Go read it for yourself, prayerfully this time.
If all you want to is argue about doctine then I caution you Brother, that it is a mistake to do that.

Jesus started the Olivet Discourse and ended it wth the same admonition to us all...Do not be deceived.
So your animosity is rejected Brother. Hope to see you shake that off.

Can you hear yourself? or are you beyond reproach?

You are receiving your own choice of communication which began in you post 981 throwing insults and falsehood.

i will address your own words so that you can "hear yourself speaking".

Our LORD says: “Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more."

 

[David in NJ]

What is that? Pre trib = no scripture which proclaims a pre trib rapture?

Wow. maybe I need to read it all agin, lol. With no Holy Spirit this time! (Lol) then I could understand you and your animosity. Which is totally misplaced by the way. But I forgive you. I know all this stuff can be hard things to understand.

I would suggest that you try to learn to be able to set aside all of your preconceived notions and approach the study with homble attitude of, (Suppose I am wrong). I cant answer a question to you if you have alredy made up your mind!

Is your faith so weak that you can't set aside your beliefs long enough to take a good hard look at the evidence being presented to consider if it may be right?

Why do insist on lying?

You have not yielded a single scripture that states: "I will pre-trib rapture my elect/saints/church"

Try setting aside your pre-trib rapture belief that NEVER came out of the Mouth of God!

Your argument is from the mouth of the Serpent = twist words, deny the Truth, accuse the opposition

My Lord and Savior says:
“Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more."

 

[rebuilder 454]

Why can't the dead in Christ explain them? After all, great tribulation precedes what is recorded in Revelation 19. Then look what the following records.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Initially all of these were physically alive at some point. Then because of great tribulation they lost their lives, thus are then in heaven in a disembodied state awaiting the resurrection of their bodies. These would be among those that rise first. These are not meaning Pretribbers who allegedly came out of great tribulation by being raptured out of it. These are martyrs. Pretribbers are not mayrters if they are allegedly raptured out of great tribulation. That hardly fits the definition of a martyr.

The ones left behind of mat 24 and 25 are indeed martyred.
The rapture is the times of Gentiles completed. The ones left behind follow them via martyrdom ,Opening God's attention to the Jew via the gt.
We need to understand the purpose of the gt.
It is the tool to bring the covenant Jew BACK IN.
Note, ONLY THE JEW is protected during the trib.
Ahem...protected via that dreaded removal by God. To possibly petra.


Rev 19
The bride has become the wife in heaven.
How did she get there?
We see the Jew gathered in Rev 14
We see the bride gathered vividly in mat 24 and mat 25.

 

[WPM]

Lol
Your doctrine has the rapture at the white horses.
Post wrath.
So ridiculous.

You do not seem to understand the recaps in the book of Revelation.

 

[MA2444]

Can you hear yourself? or are you beyond reproach?

You are receiving your own choice of communication which began in you post 981 throwing insults and falsehood.

i will address your own words so that you can "hear yourself speaking".

Our LORD says: “Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more."

Do you mean when I said it is a nutty question? I said no offense intended. Geez what more do you want. Your not going to play a victim card on me are you?

Can't men have a conversation without going all emotional like the women do? I dint take a swing at you, I said that seems nutty. So bg s=deal. It does seem nutty to me. DOnt be so thin skinned, geezow Brother.

You should have heard how my friends and I all talked to each other when we were younger. Geez major insults would fly! But nobody started boohooing. We were friends. We were men and that stuff dont mean squat. We could get into a scuffle and when it's over it's over. We're still friends for cryig out loud? Lighten up.

No offense Brother. No offense intended. Please dont lose yourself emotionally. We're all men here.
For instance, you dont offend me. I just know that you hold to a few different beliefs than I do. We're just talking.

I miss the good ol days when men could talk straight to each other. I apologize if you get emotionally distraught because I may have been raised on the other side of the Tracks for you. I cant help it. and I aint no gen z goofball that crys over every little thing that someone says. And you dont sound like a gen Z either so....what? WHAT?? That's how I talk, sorry. I didnt insult you or accuse you.

I'm getting better at it though, not offending others who get so offended so easily nowadays. I aint perfect. But I am forgiven. And you are too.

 

[MA2444]

Why do insist on lying?

Oh get bent. I aint going to even talk to you if you dont get hold of yourself.

I'm hungry. Bye for now. Bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus...