It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[covenantee]

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convincing was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)
2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)
3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)
4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)
5. The Great Bible (1540)
6. The Beeches Bible (1576)
7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Here is Wycliffe's translation:

2 Thessalonians 2:3
[That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition,

Wycliffe defines "departing away" as dissension.

Did you know that the rapture is dissension?

In fact, the original 1382 Wycliffe translation does not even use the word "departing":

2 Thessalonians 2 1382 Wycliffe

3	No man disseyue you in ony manere. For but dissencioun come first, and the man of synne be schewid, the sonne of perdicioun,

Poor Ice T.

Exposed and humiliated again.

 

[WPM]

YOU CAN'T ANSWER.................LOL.

You claim it's a recap............but can't find what it is recaping.

How is it that you claim the 7 trumpets are a recap but have no clue what they are recapping?

What has that to do with any of the questions i asked you? Nothing! You are avoiding the obvious. This is a smokescreen. This is a clear admission that all of your theories are just that. There is no solid basis for your doctrine. Your position is built upon private speculations that cannot abide scriptural scrutiny.

 

[MA2444]

Matthew chapter 24 - how is it you missed it?

pre-trib rapture? scripture? Why are you evading???

God has commanded us to only believe His words and do not have respect of persons in your heart/judgment.

JESUS says this is how you will know the truth: Answer any of the questions below with TRUTH = "Thy word is Truth"

I didnt miss it. The disciples asked Jesus three questions and Jesus answered them all...but not chronologically! Can you see in Matthew 24 when He starts talking about the rapture? Which verse is it? You (guess first then I'll tell you.)

 

[MA2444]

1.) Scripture from any OT Prophet, JESUS or the Apostles that proclaim/prophecy of the Rapture of His Bride BEFORE the Resurrection at His Coming.

2.) Scripture where JESUS proclaims: My elect/saints/bride/church will NOT see the AoD

3.) Scripture where the Apostles proclaim: My elect/saints/bride/church will NOT see the AoD

4.) OT Prophets proclaiming/prophecy of a pre-trib rapture for the saints/elect/congregation BEFORE Tribulation and/or the AoD

5.) NT declaration/prophecy of separating Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ.

6.) Scripture from any OT Prophet, any of the Apostles and/or the LORD proclaiming His elect/saints/bride/church will NOT suffer tribulation unto death via a pre-trib rapture.
*** with the EXCEPTION of those who will be alive and remaining at His Coming = 1 Thess 4:17**

I'm not going to dive into the scripture with you and discuss it whie you seem to have some sort of animosity in your words towards pretribbers. So that would be a waste of time for me.

I dont want to argue with post tribbers. Time is too short to argue with the distractions over something that dont even apply to myself as a pre tribber and those beliefs. You never did actually tell me a valid reason of a problem that pre trib creates. All of that that you asked for is in scripture, but it isnt in a single vers that says...I am the Lord your God, the Rapture will be pre trib...It's not there like that. Yes you must draw a conclusion of all the little pieces of info seeded throughout so much of the text.

I think most of your questions are answered in the book of Daniel. But it would take a bit of time to go through it all and decode it, lol! And put it together. I have posted so many scriptures about this subject that it wouldnt be too hard to re read some of these threads and get them for yourself if your really interested in studying the text and not just arguing. You sound like you only want to argue. No thank you sir. I dont have tme for that. If you want to argue, go argue with WPM, he is a good arguer, lol. and he IS certainly superior to all of us mere mortals, right? I mean early on in this string of threads him and his buddy exalted him to the board and oh but he's a Pastor and all that crap. I sorta called them out on that and they seem to not like to comment on that any more (PTL)! Because no one is superior to anyone else here. We simply hold diffing beliefs. Well woop te do! so we have to argue instead? Nah, I'll pass. It doesnt seem conducive to a good relationship with the Lord to go around putting His children down with the petty shortsighted bickering that seems to present in Amils! In one way or another, I am one of the Lords favorite Children, so why would you be willing to talk smack to me? Conversely, You are also one way or another one of God's favorit children also, so I dont want to argue and flap my lips in an bad way to one of HIS children!
I've never shot myself in the foot! Why start now just because some guys want to provoke an argument?

I'm not saying believe me. I'm no Pastor, I'm no Prophet. Go read the texts in Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Matthew and Revelation with the Holy Spirit's assistance and support, and dont go by what I say...what does the word of God really say. But dont stifle the voice of the Holy Spirit or you'll never get confirmation of it oe way or another.

Nah, I am Nobody. I am no teacher. Go see for yourself what He says and read it prayerfully, Holy Spirit lead me into al truth, give me Wisdom and Understanding and reach out to Him and receive what HE says to you about it.

I did so I am solid in my faith about it. No post tribber can undermine my faith, lol! So pre trib shouldnt be able to undermine your faith, or else you need to pray Brother.

I got a question for you. Are pre tribbers and post tribbers Brothers in Christ, yes or no?

 

[rebuilder 454]

to my Brothers in Christ, @rebuilder 454 @MA2444 @The Light @Ronald D Milam

i will FULLY apologize and REJOICE in TRUTH if you can just find the TRUTH:

1.) Scripture from any OT Prophet, JESUS or the Apostles that proclaim/prophecy of the Rapture of His Bride BEFORE the Resurrection at His Coming.

2.) Scripture where JESUS proclaims: My elect/saints/bride/church will NOT see the AoD

3.) Scripture where the Apostles proclaim: My elect/saints/bride/church will NOT see the AoD

4.) OT Prophets proclaiming/prophecy of a pre-trib rapture for the saints/elect/congregation BEFORE Tribulation and/or the AoD

5.) NT declaration/prophecy of separating Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ.

6.) Scripture from any OT Prophet, any of the Apostles and/or the LORD proclaiming His elect/saints/bride/church will NOT suffer tribulation unto death via a pre-trib rapture.
*** with the EXCEPTION of those who will be alive and remaining at His Coming = 1 Thess 4:17***

You are correct.
All postribbers are not watching and waiting for Jesus.
You guys look to the Antichrist arrival and claim great faith that endure.
Yes, you will go through the GT.
Every one of you will face that demon and either take the mark and lose your life.
That choice is yours.
You will all be martyred.
Correction..most of you will be martyred.
The rest will try to save their lives and take the mark.

 

[David in NJ]

I didnt address this because I think it's a nutty response (no offense). What many young Christians are failing to realize is that it is not edifying to argue doctrine from a carnal perspective. There is a real spiritual war going on with real spirits and the enemy has turned up the heat because he knows his time is short. So if we dont develop our relationship with the Lord, we will not have His protection. It is written, be ye led by the spirit. The carnal man can not receive the things of the spirit nor can it. And it's fairly easy to be able to tell if someone is (talking) carnally or from the spirit. WHy be distracted by things not of the Spirit? We learn nothing. Feed our egos back and forth, lol.

I'm trying to get past that. I do notice that some of those pretribbers that talk to you arent really trying to be superior or talking you down and perhaps it may be beneficial to listen to them and read with an open mind instead ofrejecting it in your mind even before you read what they say.

So that question my spirit is telling me, I wouldnt ever have that question with my belief, so I cant answer it.

I dont think that post tribbers are lying per se. They just have differing views. SO what? We're still Brothers in Christ, right?

I didnt address this because I think it's a nutty response (no offense). What many young Christians are failing to realize is that it is not edifying to argue doctrine from a carnal perspective.

My Brother,
Post 952 is Holy Spirit TRUTH
The purpose of your response is to DISCOUNT the words of God = Hebrews 13:5

Your response is classic 'pre-trib' false accusation = "nutty response and carnal perspective"

Example #1 : You say: "The carnal man can not receive the things of the spirit nor can it."
You just BLEW your cover of deceit for pre-trib is CARNAL and it is a lie that you call spiritual.

Example #2 : "I don't think the pre-tribbers are lying, let's all have a open mind"

The Garden account with the Serpent teaches us that to ignore Truth (Hebrews 13:5) is essential in order that we can have a "open mind" = for the Devil knows a LIE needs a resting place.

Just one of the many pre-trib lies say: Believe in pre-trib rapture or you will be "Left-Behind"

Twisting God's words and FEAR is a powerful control mechanism used by politicians, false prophets and the enemy of our Salvation and sanctification to DIVIDE.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm not going to dive into the scripture with you and discuss it whie you seem to have some sort of animosity in your words towards pretribbers. So that would be a waste of time for me.

I dont want to argue with post tribbers. Time is too short to argue with the distractions over something that dont even apply to myself as a pre tribber and those beliefs. You never did actually tell me a valid reason of a problem that pre trib creates. All of that that you asked for is in scripture, but it isnt in a single vers that says...I am the Lord your God, the Rapture will be pre trib...It's not there like that. Yes you must draw a conclusion of all the little pieces of info seeded throughout so much of the text.

I think most of your questions are answered in the book of Daniel. But it would take a bit of time to go through it all and decode it, lol! And put it together. I have posted so many scriptures about this subject that it wouldnt be too hard to re read some of these threads and get them for yourself if your really interested in studying the text and not just arguing. You sound like you only want to argue. No thank you sir. I dont have tme for that. If you want to argue, go argue with WPM, he is a good arguer, lol. and he IS certainly superior to all of us mere mortals, right? I mean early on in this string of threads him and his buddy exalted him to the board and oh but he's a Pastor and all that crap. I sorta called them out on that and they seem to not like to comment on that any more (PTL)! Because no one is superior to anyone else here. We simply hold diffing beliefs. Well woop te do! so we have to argue instead? Nah, I'll pass. It doesnt seem conducive to a good relationship with the Lord to go around putting His children down with the petty shortsighted bickering that seems to present in Amils! In one way or another, I am one of the Lords favorite Children, so why would you be willing to talk smack to me? Conversely, You are also one way or another one of God's favorit children also, so I dont want to argue and flap my lips in an bad way to one of HIS children!
I've never shot myself in the foot! Why start now just because some guys want to provoke an argument?

I'm not saying believe me. I'm no Pastor, I'm no Prophet. Go read the texts in Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Matthew and Revelation with the Holy Spirit's assistance and support, and dont go by what I say...what does the word of God really say. But dont stifle the voice of the Holy Spirit or you'll never get confirmation of it oe way or another.

Nah, I am Nobody. I am no teacher. Go see for yourself what He says and read it prayerfully, Holy Spirit lead me into al truth, give me Wisdom and Understanding and reach out to Him and receive what HE says to you about it.

I did so I am solid in my faith about it. No post tribber can undermine my faith, lol! So pre trib shouldnt be able to undermine your faith, or else you need to pray Brother.

I got a question for you. Are pre tribbers and post tribbers Brothers in Christ, yes or no?

I'm not going to dive into the scripture with you and discuss it whie you seem to have some sort of animosity in your words towards pretribbers. So that would be a waste of time for me.

This is NOT what the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles teach us.

This is avoidance from Scripture to protect yourself from being discovered by the Holy Spirit.

You choose to hide in the Garden and have covered the nakedness of the sin of pre-trib by choosing a false covering = ignore the Holy Scriptures, cast aversion and accuse the Truth as being carnal.

 

[David in NJ]

You are correct.
All postribbers are not watching and waiting for Jesus.
You guys look to the Antichrist arrival and claim great faith that endure.
Yes, you will go through the GT.
Every one of you will face that demon and either take the mark and lose your life.
That choice is yours.
You will all be martyred.
Correction..most of you will be martyred.
The rest will try to save their lives and take the mark.

JESUS tells us to watch out for false prophets, false christs and the AoD/Antichrist that will be BEFORE His Coming.

The Apostles tells us to watch out for false prophets, false christs and the AoD/Antichrist that will be BEFORE His Coming.

You only have One TRUE choice = believe the words of JESUS and the Apostles.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I'm not going to dive into the scripture with you and discuss it whie you seem to have some sort of animosity in your words towards pretribbers. So that would be a waste of time for me.

I dont want to argue with post tribbers. Time is too short to argue with the distractions over something that dont even apply to myself as a pre tribber and those beliefs. You never did actually tell me a valid reason of a problem that pre trib creates. All of that that you asked for is in scripture, but it isnt in a single vers that says...I am the Lord your God, the Rapture will be pre trib...It's not there like that. Yes you must draw a conclusion of all the little pieces of info seeded throughout so much of the text.

I think most of your questions are answered in the book of Daniel. But it would take a bit of time to go through it all and decode it, lol! And put it together. I have posted so many scriptures about this subject that it wouldnt be too hard to re read some of these threads and get them for yourself if your really interested in studying the text and not just arguing. You sound like you only want to argue. No thank you sir. I dont have tme for that. If you want to argue, go argue with WPM, he is a good arguer, lol. and he IS certainly superior to all of us mere mortals, right? I mean early on in this string of threads him and his buddy exalted him to the board and oh but he's a Pastor and all that crap. I sorta called them out on that and they seem to not like to comment on that any more (PTL)! Because no one is superior to anyone else here. We simply hold diffing beliefs. Well woop te do! so we have to argue instead? Nah, I'll pass. It doesnt seem conducive to a good relationship with the Lord to go around putting His children down with the petty shortsighted bickering that seems to present in Amils! In one way or another, I am one of the Lords favorite Children, so why would you be willing to talk smack to me? Conversely, You are also one way or another one of God's favorit children also, so I dont want to argue and flap my lips in an bad way to one of HIS children!
I've never shot myself in the foot! Why start now just because some guys want to provoke an argument?

I'm not saying believe me. I'm no Pastor, I'm no Prophet. Go read the texts in Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Matthew and Revelation with the Holy Spirit's assistance and support, and dont go by what I say...what does the word of God really say. But dont stifle the voice of the Holy Spirit or you'll never get confirmation of it oe way or another.

Nah, I am Nobody. I am no teacher. Go see for yourself what He says and read it prayerfully, Holy Spirit lead me into al truth, give me Wisdom and Understanding and reach out to Him and receive what HE says to you about it.

I did so I am solid in my faith about it. No post tribber can undermine my faith, lol! So pre trib shouldnt be able to undermine your faith, or else you need to pray Brother.

I got a question for you. Are pre tribbers and post tribbers Brothers in Christ, yes or no?

Looks like you have your eyes open.
They work hard to suck us into personal push back.
The underlying reason is that they are embarrassed.
What a hard job they have.
Casting down our verses and reframing others to make a point that Jesus Gathering his bride is perverted.
That is their starting place.
Their starting place is OFFENCE.
The pretrib rapture declared by Jesus is a great offense to them.
That is why they despise us.
And that is where they start their "study".
When your starting place is twisted, and the other option is hated and despised, 50 verses or even 100 verses are all going to be cast down.
Truth becomes despised.
That is why they are so embarrased.

 

[David in NJ]

Looks like you have your eyes open.
They work hard to suck us into personal push back.
The underlying reason is that they are embarrassed.
What a hard job they have.
Casting down our verses and reframing others to make a point that Jesus Gathering his bride is perverted.
That is their starting place.
Their starting place is OFFENCE.
The pretrib rapture declared by Jesus is a great offense to them.
That is why they despise us.
And that is where they start their "study".
When your starting place is twisted, and the other option is hated and despised, 50 verses or even 100 verses are all going to be cast down.
Truth becomes despised.
That is why they are so embarrased.

People will falsely accuse and when they are caught they run and hide from the LIGHT of God's word.

This is NOT what/how the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught us to behave.

This is avoidance from Scripture to protect yourself from being discovered by the Holy Spirit.

You choose to hide in the Garden and have covered the nakedness of the sin of pre-trib by choosing a false covering = ignore the Holy Scriptures, cast aversion and accuse the Truth as being carnal.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is NOT what the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles teach us.

This is avoidance from Scripture to protect yourself from being discovered by the Holy Spirit.

You choose to hide in the Garden and have covered the nakedness of the sin of pre-trib by choosing a false covering = ignore the Holy Scriptures, cast aversion and accuse the Truth as being carnal.

Pot <> kettle blue ribbon award.
You cast down and stomp every pretrib rapture verse, while quoting what is not the rapture, and are oblivious that your ONLY VERSE in Matthew says angels gather from heaven.
Uh hello, the rapture is JESUS GATHERING FROM EARTH.

 

[rebuilder 454]

People will falsely accuse and when they are caught they run and hide from the LIGHT of God's word.

This is NOT what/how the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught us to behave.

This is avoidance from Scripture to protect yourself from being discovered by the Holy Spirit.

You choose to hide in the Garden and have covered the nakedness of the sin of pre-trib by choosing a false covering = ignore the Holy Scriptures, cast aversion and accuse the Truth as being carnal.

Say it into a mirror while ripping our verses from your Bible

You have all that "FORBIDDEN TERRITORY" of the rapture verses.
I feel for you guys.
All those verses are forbidden by your hatred of the words of Christ.

And you guys celebrate it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS tells us to watch out for false prophets, false christs and the AoD/Antichrist that will be BEFORE His Coming.

The Apostles tells us to watch out for false prophets, false christs and the AoD/Antichrist that will be BEFORE His Coming.

You only have One TRUE choice = believe the words of JESUS and the Apostles.

^^^^^^^^This is beyond ridiculous ^^^^^^^^^

 

[David in NJ]

I didnt miss it. The disciples asked Jesus three questions and Jesus answered them all...but not chronologically! Can you see in Matthew 24 when He starts talking about the rapture? Which verse is it? You (guess first then I'll tell you.)

There is no guessing in TRUTH that a child can SEE.

JESUS says HE is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation for His elect/saints/chosen.

This is classic pre-fib = no scripture to proclaim pre-trib rapture.

Post the scripture or continue to believe the lie that it exists when it does not.
And even worse, be adamant that the lie is truth!!!

 

[David in NJ]

Say it into a mirror while ripping our verses from your Bible

You have all that "FORBIDDEN TERRITORY" of the rapture verses.
I feel for you guys.
All those verses are forbidden by your hatred of the words of Christ.

And you guys celebrate it.

Why are unable to post a single one???

 

[rebuilder 454]

My Brother,
Post 952 is Holy Spirit TRUTH
The purpose of your response is to DISCOUNT the words of God = Hebrews 13:5

Your response is classic 'pre-trib' false accusation = "nutty response and carnal perspective"

Example #1 : You say: "The carnal man can not receive the things of the spirit nor can it."
You just BLEW your cover of deceit for pre-trib is CARNAL and it is a lie that you call spiritual.

Example #2 : "I don't think the pre-tribbers are lying, let's all have a open mind"

The Garden account with the Serpent teaches us that to ignore Truth (Hebrews 13:5) is essential in order that we can have a "open mind" = for the Devil knows a LIE needs a resting place.

Just one of the many pre-trib lies say: Believe in pre-trib rapture or you will be "Left-Behind"

Twisting God's words and FEAR is a powerful control mechanism used by politicians, false prophets and the enemy of our Salvation and sanctification to DIVIDE.

Pure baloney.
14k false baloney

 

[David in NJ]

Say it into a mirror while ripping our verses from your Bible

You have all that "FORBIDDEN TERRITORY" of the rapture verses.
I feel for you guys.
All those verses are forbidden by your hatred of the words of Christ.

And you guys celebrate it.

There is no guessing in TRUTH that a child can SEE.

JESUS says HE is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation for His elect/saints/chosen.

This is classic pre-fib = no scripture to proclaim pre-trib rapture.

Post the scripture or continue to believe the lie that it exists when it does not.
And even worse, be adamant that the lie is truth!!!

 

[David in NJ]

Pure baloney.
14k false baloney

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we may boldly say:

“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

Calling scripture 'baloney' is the Devils banquet.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Why are unable to post a single one???

Lol.
Stop acting like they don't exist.
We have stuck your nose in mat 24:38 and Rev 14.14
Acts 1
The 2cescape verses.
Lot
Noah
The baby Jesus
All gathered and moved PRETRIB.
You have been shown the Antichrist kills every single living person that refuses the mark. You have been shown that the Saints left during the tribulation "overcame the Antichrist by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death"
.... every single one of them gets martyred.
All the disciples save John were murdered by the devil.
No protection for them
No protection from the AC. All saints left behind die.
Now twist all that.
No you will totally ignore it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we may boldly say:

“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

Calling scripture 'baloney' is the Devils banquet.

Lol.
All the disciples were murdered by the devil.
All take the mark that are not written in the book.
Those believers refusing die.
You are way way off.
You do not know your bible.