It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Keraz]

Many here would say that I’m one of the deceived.

We all have some wrong beliefs. No one has 100% truth of Gods Plans for our future.
Bur for people to believe something that is never Prophesied, is serious error. We MUST be sure our beliefs conform the scriptures, or we are in the quagmire of false teachings and our 'house' is built on sand, so when disaster strikes, [be sure it will Ezekiel 33:33] you may be unable to stand firm and keep trusting the Lord to protect us.

 

[David in NJ]

Scripture makes clear that Satan has been defeated through the life, death and resurrection of Christ and is spiritually incapable of stopping the invasion of the truth and light to the Gentiles (ethnos) nations since the resurrection. He (and his kingdom) are hampered by spiritual chains. Only those who get close to him can be harmed. Satan cannot deceive the Gentiles anymore as a whole (like he did before Christ's earthly ministry) because the Gospel has been brought to them. This is a general broad statement that is made in Rev 20 in regard to the great commission.

Good Morning WPM, @rwb
TRUTH/Scripture says: They(satan/demons) are defeated by Death/Cross and the Resurrection of Christ.
"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it." - Colossians 2:15

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth"

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH

feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

 

[David in NJ]

Good Morning @MA2444 , @The Light

God is not bound and directed by nature = "3 harvests"

In the GOSPEL, our LORD Jesus Christ only spoke of ONE Harvest = John 4:34-38

"Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’?
Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!
And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH

feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

 

[WPM]

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH

feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

Please keep your condescending comments away from our engagement. I do not appreciate them. I am willing to engage, if you can do in a respectful way.

The reason I hold my position is because i cherish TRUTH. I abandoned Premil after i saw it lacks any corroboration for its opinion of Rev 20.

 

[David in NJ]

Please keep your condescending comments away from our engagement. I do not appreciate them. I am willing to engage, if you can do in a respectful way.

The reason I hold my position is because i cherish TRUTH. I abandoned Premil after i saw it lacks any corroboration for its opinion of Rev 20.

religion always attacks = ALWAYS

Who is condenscending who = God will Judge

This statement is Truth, by the words of God = Mark 4:24

Then He said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH
feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

 

[rebuilder 454]

There are only TWO = His First and His Second

SEE post 403

There are 2 comings in mat 24.
A third In Rev 14.
Just cut all that out of your bible.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Eschatology & Prophecy Forum is like a dark alley.

A place to avoid if you don't want to be beat up and left for dead.



[

 

[rebuilder 454]

These scriptures only speak of His Second Coming.

No 'goyim' church being raptured in the text/scripture you posted.

Ahem...." likewise Lot"
Both Noah and Lot depicted as prejudgent / pretrib gatherings....that goes completely over your head. It is as if " no comprehension" is the postrib rapture banner.
But it gets WORSE, because JESUS TELLS you the setting for BOTH GATHERINGS is normal life and commerce.
HELLO...YOU PURPOSEFULLY change that and DEFEND a complete fairy tale.
Rev 14 being your bonus chapter to likewise reinvent.
You are totally busted as is your entire doctrine.
But hey, keep on omitting and refraining.
Change that Ole bible around. Your teachers are doing a good job. You are now certified as a bible changer.
Your doctrine has no verses.
Why would anyone fall for a debunked doctrine?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Eschatology & Prophecy Forum is like a dark alley.

A place to avoid if you don't want to be beat up and left for dead.

View attachment 49910

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It is refreshing when the debate switches to "concept vs concept."
We used to not engage postribber slaps and insults.
Now we push back.
The push back then becomes more "extra biblical fodder" for the postrib juvenile attacks.
Anytime they want to go toe to toe, my bible is in hand.
It embarrasses them because they can not run with me.
As of about maybe 5 years ago new passages and verses have come to light. One of them is revelation 14 which is God's promise to gather his Covenant people the Jews. Another one is the bride and the bridegroom. My eschatology over the last 10 years have centered over the bride and the bridegroom.
Once the believer understands that the Rapture is actually the Gathering of the Bride, and the tribulation is actually Jacob's trouble, Israel's trouble, the Jewish people's trouble, i can unpack end times.
So what we have here, basically, is ignorance of God's purpose. The Purpose of the Rapture is simply to gather the bride... and the times of the Gentile Church ending.
The purpose of the tribulation. Is to plow up the Jewish people and get them ready for Revelation 14, or you could say the Gathering of his Covenant people and that is about Midway in the seven year tribulation.

 

[IndianaRob]

We all have some wrong beliefs. No one has 100% truth of Gods Plans for our future.
Bur for people to believe something that is never Prophesied, is serious error. We MUST be sure our beliefs conform the scriptures, or we are in the quagmire of false teachings and our 'house' is built on sand, so when disaster strikes, [be sure it will Ezekiel 33:33] you may be unable to stand firm and keep trusting the Lord to protect us.

We’ll I can tell you the storm is here and the place of safety is heavenly Jerusalem and most people don’t even believe it’s here.

 

[David in NJ]

There are 2 comings in mat 24.
A third In Rev 14.
Just cut all that out of your bible.

Good Morning,

Please post the "2 comings of the Lord" in Matt ch24

Thank You

 

[David in NJ]

Ahem...." likewise Lot"
Both Noah and Lot depicted as prejudgent / pretrib gatherings....that goes completely over your head. It is as if " no comprehension" is the postrib rapture banner.
But it gets WORSE, because JESUS TELLS you the setting for BOTH GATHERINGS is normal life and commerce.
HELLO...YOU PURPOSEFULLY change that and DEFEND a complete fairy tale.
Rev 14 being your bonus chapter to likewise reinvent.
You are totally busted as is your entire doctrine.
But hey, keep on omitting and refraining.
Change that Ole bible around. Your teachers are doing a good job. You are now certified as a bible changer.
Your doctrine has no verses.
Why would anyone fall for a debunked doctrine?

1 Thessalonians 1:10 & 2 Peter 2:4-9
"wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

NOAH = pre-WRATH Deliverance = the global FLOOD was God's Wrath poured out from the heavens above and the wells below

Lot = pre-WRATH Deliverance = 2 Peter 2:4-9
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

But it gets WORSE, because JESUS TELLS you the setting for BOTH GATHERINGS is normal life and commerce.

JESUS tells us, only for the unredeemed, in the world and the world system will life be normal = 1 Thess 5:3

For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.

JESUS tells us we will NOT have "peace and safety in this world" = John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

JESUS tells us we will be hated by all nations, persecuted even to death = Matt chapter 24

Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

JESUS is asking you and all who hold to the error of pre-trib = “Do you now believe?"

 

[WalkInLight]

Simple: the intra-Advent period (the last days) runs in between the first and second comings of Christ. When He returns it is the end. He rescues the righteous and destroys the wicked. God resurrects all and all are brought before the judgment bar of God to face their eternal reward. All sin and corruption, are eternally eliminated from the earth. The righteous inherit the new earth, the wicked, the demonic realm, death and Hades are banished to the Lake of Fire forever.

Now, will you address the Op?

My main question is why the 1000 year reign? What is the purpose?
Is the idea like purgatory, it is to give the world a chance knowing Christ face to face and still hating Him?
I think the Pharisees proved this is simple and already done.

And the final rebellion by the beast, is not exactly a threat or even successful. Just totally squashed.
The book of revelation is a spiritual and emotional expression of the Lord and His approach to the world and believers.
It is very other, and specifically declares it is a picture which should not be adjusted, because we have no clue quite what
it means or why. It is like a parent telling their child they love them and how through all their kids struggles it will work
out. The message is emotional support, not historical telling of each step.

God bless you

 

[GISMYS_7]

Luke 21:36​

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
The catching up " pre-trip rapture" is a believers escape from the wrath to soon come. And you???

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 21:36​

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
The catching up " pre-trip rapture" is a believers escape from the wrath to soon come. And you???

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

ABSOLTELY TRUE = 100%

The catching up " pre-trip rapture" is a believers escape from the wrath to soon come.

ABSOLUTELY FALSE

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


ABSOLUTE TRUTH = 1 Thessalonians 1:10
"wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

ABSOLUTE TRUTH = 1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

ABSOLUTE TRUTH = 1 Thessalonians 4:17
AFTER that(v16 = Resurrection) we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Shalom

 

[WPM]

religion always attacks = ALWAYS

Who is condenscending who = God will Judge

This statement is Truth, by the words of God = Mark 4:24

Then He said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH
feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

You started the attack. I was engaging with you in a respectful manner.

 

[Keraz]

My main question is why the 1000 year reign? What is the purpose?

There has to be a thousand year reign of Jesus as King over the world, in order to fulfil Gods promises to His Son, Psalms 2:4-9, Psalms 110:2-4, Zechariah 14:16-21, Isaiah 2:2-4, +
Do not make the mistake that some here do; by making the plain narrative of Revelation 20 into a 'highly symbolic' chapter and having the unbelievable idea of us being in the Millennium now.

 

[IndianaRob]

There has to be a thousand year reign of Jesus as King over the world, in order to fulfil Gods promises to His Son, Psalms 2:4-9, Psalms 110:2-4, Zechariah 14:16-21, Isaiah 2:2-4, +
Do not make the mistake that some here do; by making the plain narrative of Revelation 20 into a 'highly symbolic' chapter and having the unbelievable idea of us being in the Millennium now.

Keraz do believe in one first resurrection or multiples?

 

[David in NJ]

You started the attack. I was engaging with you in a respectful manner.

My Brother in the Lord Jesus Christ,

i am sorry you took it that way as i have no desire to attack you.

This is not an attack but it is Holy Spirit Truth = that applies to me and everyone.

Shalom

Then He(Jesus) said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH
feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

SHALOM

All i desired for you to SEE & HEAR are the words of Christ concerning TODAY, as to where the demons are.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth"

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

SHALOM

 

[Keraz]

Keraz do believe in one first resurrection or multiples?

The First Resurrection to Eternal life, was Jesus.
The next resurrection will be of the martyrs killed during the Great Trib. Revelation 20:4
The final resurrection is at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 Then; only those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality.