It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Eternally Grateful]

No Jacobs trouble was when Jesus came and took the kingdom from the wicked Jews. Today’s events are more of a Noah’s flood event.

God is doing a great reset on this planet.

Jacobs trouble has not even happened yet.. And it is not about God taking a kingdom away. it is about a time of great tribulation, in which Jacob (Israel) will be saved out from it. and this time will cause this same jacob (isreal) to repent.

Jer 30 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.

8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.

10 ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We can all see, that even though the foolish virgins are vividly depicted as believers, you need that changed.
But it gets worse.
Because now you actually need half of earth's population to be unbelievers and half saved.
Nope .we can now see how Making changes to the Bible, will lead you into a quandary.
You now have a INSURMOUNTABLE problem.
You are unaware that what we have with the virgins is a SUB-GROUP of earth's population.
2 EQUAL parts of THAT group.
So your ENTIRE DEAL is false.
( hello...half of earth's population will never be saved)

Try as you may..you can never make that parable say what you need it to.

They are not true believers when Jesus comes. He would not tell true believers that He doesn't know them. That's nonsense. But, you ignore that.

What will happen to people like the foolish virgins who say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when He comes? You obviously haven't bothered to look and see which is why you falsely think they are believers and will be allowed to continue living after that.

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Again, we can see here that Jesus will tell them that He doesn't know them.

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Here again, as in the parable of the ten virgins, we can see that Jesus, when He returns, will tell people who say "Lord, Lord, open to us" that He doesn't know them. But, now we have an added detail here showing what will happen to them at that point that isn't shown in the parable. Those people will be "thrust out" to where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" at that point. That doesn't seem like they are given another chance as pretribs claim.

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Jesus will return at the end of the age and He said that at the end of the age is when unbelievers will be cast into the fire "where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". Clearly, people like the foolish virgins will not be given another chance when He returns but instead will be condemned to the lake of fire! You know pretrib is a horrible doctrine when it teaches that people will get another chance to repent when Jesus comes when in reality there time will have run out at that point and they will not get any more chances.

If Jesus doesn't know someone when He comes, including those who say "Lord, Lord, open to us", this is what will happen to them:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

He will not be giving them another chance, He will be taking vengeance on them and they will be separated from His presence forever.

So, I have shown, using scripture, what will happen to people like the foolish virgins when Jesus returns. Can you use scripture to back up your understanding of the foolish virgins? If so, then please do that because otherwise there's no reason for anyone to pay any attention to what you say. If you can't back it up, then there's no reason to take you seriously. So, how about you start backing up your claims for once using scripture?

 

[IndianaRob]

Jacobs trouble has not even happened yet.. And it is not about God taking a kingdom away. it is about a time of great tribulation, in which Jacob (Israel) will be saved out from it. and this time will cause this same jacob (isreal) to repent.

Jer 30 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.

8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.

10 ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’

Jacobs trouble was when the Jews murdered Jesus and God poured out his wrath on them, took the stewardship of the kingdom from the the wicked Jews and gave it to the righteous Jews forever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

in my studies. Post-trib is the most indefensible of all the pre-millenial views.

That's a ridiculous claim that you can't back up with scripture.

The following passages are clearly about the same event and Jesus Himself made it clear that the rapture will be post-trib.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In each passage we can see Christ's people being gathered both from heaven and from earth. The ones gathered from heaven are "them also which sleep in Jesus", also known as "the dead in Christ". The ones gathered from the earth are "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord". Pretribs like to say that Jesus will come for His saints in one event and then with His saints in another event. No, He comes both for and with His saints at the same time. One event. Not two events separated by seven (or however many) years of tribulation. That is never taught anywhere in scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

See this is the problem.

You can say you disagree with the evidence. But you can not say there is no evidence. That is just plain false. and has absolutely no bearing of truth..

in fact.t here is more evidence Pre-trib MAY be true. than there is evidence you can submit to prove there is no evidence.

If you're going to make claims like this, then back them up. Your opinions are worthless without supporting scripture. That's true of me and everyone else here as well. I believe scripture overwhelmingly supports post-trib and am just incredulous at you making the claim you did here, but you're free to share some verses that you think support pre-trib.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Prove it. I am talking about a literal whole number here.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

The start time of this is in Neh 2. when Artaxerxes gave Nehemiah a command letter allowing him to rebuild the city of Jerusalem.
this was in the month of Nisan in the 20th year af artexerxes.

This ended with the introduction of messiah the prince.

A careful study of the OT says there is but one prophecy which shows when and how the messiah will be shon the jerusalem. that prophecy is in Zechariah

Zechariah 9:9

The Coming King​

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.

Further study shows we have evidence of when this happened.

Matt 21: 21 Now when they drew near Jerusalem, and came to Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to Me. 3 And if anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and immediately he will send them.”
4 All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:
5 “Tell the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your King is coming to you, Lowly, and sitting on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.’

so here we have the first 69 weeks. In order. literally fulfilled to the day that Gabriel said it would happen.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Again, looking at the historical recored. we can see messiah was "cut off" Literally killed) the same week in which he entered jerusalem. when ended the 69th week. So we have this literally in succession fulfilled to the T.

continuing...
And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

this is the next event to happen in sequence. although this is a problem.

Looking at historical record. we know this happened almost 40 years after the end of the 69th week. So we already have an issue with 70 weeks being in succession.. because even this, this is not yet fulfilled.

also. Israel was supposed to make an end of her sin by the end of the 70th weel. yet here we have rome destroying jerusalem again (according to lev 26) because of her sin.

so here almost 40 years after the end of the 69th week. we still have no fulfillment.

Also. if we look, this desolation will continue for a period of time, which is predetermined (the end of war desolation's) which we are not told of what this time period will be, so we have an unknown.


continuing...

27 Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;

Here we have another 1 week or 7 year period mentioned. Which occurs AFTER the first 69 weeks. and AFTER the destruction of the city, and its desolation.
We have a He. who is HE? well in continuation, he would be the prince who is to come. and we are told where he will come from. as it is HIS people who destroyed the city in 70 AD (Rome) which also coincides with the 4 beasts of daniel. as the final beast. who will be destroyed by the return of Christ. is Rome..


But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

So here we have the abomination of desolation. which is placed in the wing of the temple. and causes sacrifice and burnt offering to cease.
1. This was mentioned by Jesus in matt 24 (Let the reader understand, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. RUN!!! for then their will be great tribulation such as has never been seen, How bad will it get? Jesus says if he does not return, and put an end to it, no flesh would survive.

2. This did not happen in any point in 70 AD. so it can not be the events of 70 AD.

and it did not happen while Jesus walked the earth.

so here we again have something OUTSIDE of the 69th week. and as of today, has not occured yet.

not to mention. at no time in history during this 70 weeks and christ has any prince made a 7 year covenant with many people.. it did not happen.. period. (although there will be people who say it did.. they are in error)

so to conclude

1. SINCE these events have not taken place yet.
2. Since non of the things Gabriel said would happen at the end of those 70 weeks have happened yet
3. Since jesus even spoke to these events in the 70th week as a future event, and by his words (let the ready understand) showing that these events will not take place until after (at the earliest) people can read his words in the book of matthew.

this is a future event

Now you can disagree all you want. Youi said I could not prove it, I just did. Your disagreement does not mean I did not prove my point

Does this prove Pre-mil? No. it has nothign to do with premil. so you using it to try to destroy premil is ridiculous.. because it is not a premil issue.

so again, I would stop. humble yourself. and back away and stop trying to divide on things you do not understand

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jacobs trouble was when the Jews murdered Jesus and God poured out his wrath on them, took the stewardship of the kingdom from the the wicked Jews and gave it to the righteous Jews forever.

No it was not.

I just posted the passage about Jacobs trouble. Nothing in that passage says anything about a messiah being crucified, and jesus destroying Israel.

Please read the passage I sent to you. That is the passage we are discussing

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. I believe the church today is full of people who’s lamps have no oil.

then they are not part of the church.

If they do not have oil (the holy spirit) they are not saved

 

[Douggg]

I don't interact with foolish man-made charts. I engage with Scripture. I would advise you to do the same. All the time, you have nothing to refute the Op. Telling!

You are interacting with an emotional outburst.

A time line chart of the timing of the rapture puts everything into perspective with the other time of the end events.

At the start of this thread you made three lengthy posts in a row containing many controversial issues - that your view can only be understood in respect to the rapture, in the midst of such a volume of material, by consolidating all that material to a time line chart.

Daniel 9 which you mentioned in your opening post, in the book of Daniel, in part integrates the time of the end events designated as time of the end in...

Daniel 8:17
Daniel 11:35
Daniel 11:40
Daniel 12:4
Daniel 12:9

...which includes the abomination of desolation. Your rapture time line chart should show the rapture relative to the abomination of desolation set up, as that is a major event to take place in the time of the end.

Work on a time line chart of your view of the rapture and other key events of the time of the end. When you are done, present it.

 

[IndianaRob]

No it was not.

I just posted the passage about Jacobs trouble. Nothing in that passage says anything about a messiah being crucified, and jesus destroying Israel.

Please read the passage I sent to you. That is the passage we are discussing

I know Jeremiah 30 by heart and when Jeremiah talks about “I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds” he’s talking about freeing Gods people from the wicked Jews that had lorded over them for centuries.

That happened at the cross…. no ifs, ands or buts.

 

[Taken]

Now, will you address the Op?

OP It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

WMP ~
You sure have a lot of irrelevant Scriptures in an attempt to continue trying to disprove Your Theory, while claiming you support a burial of Your Theory.

Odd.

NOT a THEORY…
The inhabitants of the Earth upon the Earth During the Last days (as we know them)…. SHALL be suffering Tribulations and Wraths SENT down from Heaven…

Rather than continue talking about YOUR Theory You apply to others…

How about YOU reveal YOUR Scriptural PROOF….of:

WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Prove it. I am talking about a literal whole number here.

ok, here is an example.

The prophet Isaiah said this

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to [a]heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;

so here is a prophecy which anyone looking would think that this all happens at one time in succession. but did it?

first. have any of the following happened?

To comfort all who mourn,
3 To [b]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.

8 “For I, the Lord, love justice;
I hate robbery [c]for burnt offering;
I will direct their work in truth,
And will make with them an everlasting covenant.
9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,
And their offspring among the people.
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the Lord has blessed.”

10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth brings forth its bud,
As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,
So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

If your honest. you know the answer is no.

but has any part of this occured yet?

we can look to Jesus

Luke 4: 6 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:


18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

so we see in just one verse alone. is a GAp that as of today is over 2000 years in length..

you still going to argue there are no gaps?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know Jeremiah 30 by heart and when Jeremiah talks about “I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds” he’s talking about freeing Gods people from the wicked Jews that had lorded over them for centuries.

That happened at the cross…. no ifs, ands or buts.

But you missed the point

It is not all saved people. it is all of the people of Jacob.

That is why it is called the time of JACOB's troube, but he JACOB will be saved out of it.

and for knowing it by heart. how did you forget about the part where Jesus said he would punish the nations and that ha also would not let her go unpunished.

 

[WPM]

You are interacting with an emotional outburst.

A time line chart of the timing of the rapture puts everything into perspective with the other time of the end events.

At the start of this thread you made three lengthy posts in a row containing many controversial issues - that your view can only be understood in respect to the rapture, in the midst of such a volume of material, by consolidating all that material to a time line chart.

Daniel 9 which you mentioned in your opening post, in the book of Daniel, in part integrates the time of the end events designated as time of the end in...

Daniel 8:17
Daniel 11:35
Daniel 11:40
Daniel 12:4
Daniel 12:9

...which includes the abomination of desolation. Your rapture time line chart should show the rapture relative to the abomination of desolation set up, as that is a major event to take place in the time of the end.

Work on a time line chart of your view of the rapture and other key events of the time of the end. When you are done, present it.

No. Quote Scripture. This is a Bible forum not an art class.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are interacting with an emotional outburst.

A time line chart of the timing of the rapture puts everything into perspective with the other time of the end events.

At the start of this thread you made three lengthy posts in a row containing many controversial issues - that your view can only be understood in respect to the rapture, in the midst of such a volume of material, by consolidating all that material to a time line chart.

Daniel 9 which you mentioned in your opening post, in the book of Daniel, in part integrates the time of the end events designated as time of the end in...

Daniel 8:17
Daniel 11:35
Daniel 11:40
Daniel 12:4
Daniel 12:9

...which includes the abomination of desolation. Your rapture time line chart should show the rapture relative to the abomination of desolation set up, as that is a major event to take place in the time of the end.

Work on a time line chart of your view of the rapture and other key events of the time of the end. When you are done, present it.

LOL. You can't be taken seriously. Your arguments are extremely weak and you try to tell everyone else what to do as if you have any authority, which you don't. He does not need to make a chart. He explained his view with words. Just because you are not able to understand what you read doesn't mean he has to create a chart just to cater to your reading disability.

Why don't you expand on your claim that the sudden destruction that Paul said will accompany the day of the Lord is the sudden destruction of the peace and safety feeling that the world has from which "they shall not escape"? Since Peter wrote about the same thing, why don't you exegete the following passage and show how it's talking about the sudden destruction of the peace and safety feeling of the world:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

So, according to your view, this is apparently talking about the burning up and dissolving of the peace and safety feeling that the world has? Is that correct? And it's talking about the dissolving of the peace and safety feeling of the heavens and the elements as well?

 

[WPM]

ok, here is an example.

The prophet Isaiah said this

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to [a]heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;

so here is a prophecy which anyone looking would think that this all happens at one time in succession. but did it?

first. have any of the following happened?

To comfort all who mourn,
3 To [b]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.

8 “For I, the Lord, love justice;
I hate robbery [c]for burnt offering;
I will direct their work in truth,
And will make with them an everlasting covenant.
9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,
And their offspring among the people.
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the Lord has blessed.”

10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth brings forth its bud,
As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,
So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

If your honest. you know the answer is no.

but has any part of this occured yet?

we can look to Jesus

Luke 4: 6 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:


18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

so we see in just one verse alone. is a GAp that as of today is over 2000 years in length..

you still going to argue there are no gaps?

I am talking about a literal identifiable period of time like 7 days, 7 weeks, 7 months, 70 days, or 70 years, etc.

 

[WPM]

You sure have a lot of irrelevant Scriptures in an attempt to continue trying to disprove Your Theory, while claiming you support a burial of Your Theory.

Odd.

NOT a THEORY…
The inhabitants of the Earth upon the Earth During the Last days (as we know them)…. SHALL be suffering Tribulations and Wraths SENT down from Heaven…

Rather than continue talking about YOUR Theory You apply to others…

How about YOU reveal YOUR Scriptural PROOF….of:

WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

Glory to God,
Taken

More gibberish!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

OP It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

WMP ~
You sure have a lot of irrelevant Scriptures in an attempt to continue trying to disprove Your Theory, while claiming you support a burial of Your Theory.

Odd.

NOT a THEORY…
The inhabitants of the Earth upon the Earth During the Last days (as we know them)…. SHALL be suffering Tribulations and Wraths SENT down from Heaven…

Rather than continue talking about YOUR Theory You apply to others…

How about YOU reveal YOUR Scriptural PROOF….of:

WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

Glory to God,
Taken

Is all you have to offer is this incoherent word salad in response to the original posts? He exegeted the scriptures and explained exactly how he interprets them and all you can come up with in response is whatever this is? Says it all about your doctrine.

 

[WPM]

We can all see, that even though the foolish virgins are vividly depicted as believers, you need that changed.
But it gets worse.
Because now you actually need half of earth's population to be unbelievers and half saved.
Nope .we can now see how Making changes to the Bible, will lead you into a quandary.
You now have a INSURMOUNTABLE problem.
You are unaware that what we have with the virgins is a SUB-GROUP of earth's population.
2 EQUAL parts of THAT group.
So your ENTIRE DEAL is false.
( hello...half of earth's population will never be saved)

Try as you may..you can never make that parable say what you need it to.

Your teachers have misled you. Let us interpret Scripture with Scripture.

Jesus said in Matthew 25:1-13: “Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried (the intra-Advent period), they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom; ‘go ye out’ to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready ‘went in’ with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

Obviously, those left behind are unbelievers! Whether they are religious unbelievers, false professors within the visible church, or out-and-out heathens, is secondary. They simply do not belong to Jesus. They are lost. They miss the boat! Their day of opportunity is gone. All they have now is destruction. They are damned and doomed to a lost eternity.

The Lord similarly teaches in Luke 13:24-28, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

What an awful day this will be, when the wicked find themselves locked outside of God's eternal abode. They will be damned without hope or without Christ. This corresponds to the actual day that Noah entered into the ark in Genesis 7:16. It solemnly tells us of Noah and the ark door, “and the LORD shut him in.” What happened to those locked outside. They were totally and immediately destroyed.

The whole unsaved world will see Jesus return when He comes (Rev 1:7) and realize they have missed it. This is where they mourn and cry (or knock as the parable of the 10 virgins put it), but it is too late. Jesus then pours out His wrath on these rebels causing their immediate and total destruction. Jesus tells us that it will be like Noah's day when Jesus locked His elect in and those outside the door who missed the boat were immediately judged. He destroyed them all (Luke 17). It was same in the city of Sodom. He destroyed all the wicked after bringing His elect out (Luke 17).

The sentence that the wicked receive on this final day is solemn: “depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This confirms that this is the end. It is the general judgment. It spells eternal damnation for every person left outside of the ark when Jesus comes. People are either ‘caught up’ or ‘caught on’. In fact, anytime Jesus employed these words it always referred to His coming and the solemn sentences that damned the ungodly. Jesus said of the goats in Matthew 25:41: “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

Using Scripture to interpret Scripture, brings clarity to a subject, puts meat on the bones of any narrative and shows the continuity of God’s truth.

We see the same scene (and similar language) in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Which “day” is Jesus talking about here - as in "that day"? His one and only glorious return. This is shown to be judgment day for the wicked. It is when they are brought to give account for their lives. This supports a general judgment when Jesus comes.

These wicked religious people are shown in this parable to be foolishly boasting to Jesus about their religious achievements: “have we not ... in thy name done many wonderful works?” From this statement we can take it: they expected to be in heaven. However, Jesus will say to them, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

There are many people like that in this world. They have religion in their head, but do not have Jesus in their hearts. They have religion, but not a real relationship. It says here: what they did in life was “in His name,” yet they were locked out.

How will these religious people handle these sobering words of Christ on that final day of judgement? They were foolish to swallow a religious lie. They sat under preaching that told them that they could get to heaven by their own good works. All their religious efforts were in vain. It was a sham. The foolish virgins are locked outside because they reject Christ; Christ then rejects them at the end. That is why He doesn’t know them. He has no relationship with them. Their religion is vain. It is bogus. They have missed their opportunity, now they must receive the judgment. This is just a parallel of all that were locked outside the ark at the flood. They are going to be banished into outer darkness – for all eternity with the rest of the wicked.

 

[Taken]

More gibberish!

Your response not a surprise when you can not answer.