It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[WPM]

Your response not a surprise when you can not answer.

Answer gibberish? LOL.

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your response not a surprise when you can not answer.

LOL. How can anyone answer your incoherent nonsense? Communicate more clearly if you want a response.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your teachers have misled you. Let us interpret Scripture with Scripture.

Jesus said in Matthew 25:1-13: “Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried (the intra-Advent period), they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom; ‘go ye out’ to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready ‘went in’ with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

Obviously, those left behind are unbelievers! Whether they are religious unbelievers, false professors within the visible church, or out-and-out heathens, is secondary. They simply do not belong to Jesus. They are lost. They miss the boat! Their day of opportunity is gone. All they have now is destruction. They are damned and doomed to a lost eternity.

We see the same scene (and similar language) in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Which “day” is Jesus talking about here - as in "that day"? His one and only glorious return. This is shown to be judgment day for the wicked. It is when they are brought to give account for their lives. This supports a general judgment when Jesus comes.

These wicked religious people are shown in this parable to be foolishly boasting to Jesus about their religious achievements: “have we not ... in thy name done many wonderful works?” From this statement we can take it: they expected to be in heaven. However, Jesus will say to them, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

There are many people like that in this world. They have religion in their head, but do not have Jesus in their hearts. They have religion, but not a real relationship. It says here: what they did in life was “in His name,” yet they were locked out.

How will these religious people handle these sobering words of Christ on that final day of judgement? They were foolish to swallow a religious lie. They sat under preaching that told them that they could get to heaven by their own good works. All their religious efforts were in vain. It was a sham. The foolish virgins are locked outside because they reject Christ; Christ then rejects them at the end. That is why He doesn’t know them. He has no relationship with them. Their religion is vain. It is bogus. They have missed their opportunity, now they must receive the judgment. This is just a parallel of all that were locked outside the ark at the flood. They are going to be banished into outer darkness – for all eternity with the rest of the wicked.

The Lord similarly teaches in Luke 13:24-28, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

What an awful day this will be, when the wicked find themselves locked outside of God's eternal abode. They will be damned without hope or without Christ. This corresponds to the actual day that Noah entered into the ark in Genesis 7:16. It solemnly tells us of Noah and the ark door, “and the LORD shut him in.” What happened to those locked outside. They were totally and immediately destroyed.

The whole unsaved world will see Jesus return when He comes (Rev 1:7) and realize they have missed it. This is where they mourn and cry (or knock as the parable of the 10 virgins put it), but it is too late. Jesus then pours out His wrath on these rebels causing their immediate and total destruction. Jesus tells us that it will be like Noah's day when Jesus locked His elect in and those outside the door who missed the boat were immediately judged. He destroyed them all (Luke 17). It was same in the city of Sodom. He destroyed all the wicked after bringing His elect out (Luke 17).

The sentence that the wicked receive on this final day is solemn: “depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This confirms that this is the end. It is the general judgment. It spells eternal damnation for every person left outside of the ark when Jesus comes. People are either ‘caught up’ or ‘caught on’. In fact, anytime Jesus employed these words it always referred to His coming and the solemn sentences that damned the ungodly. Jesus said of the goats in Matthew 25:41: “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

Using Scripture to interpret Scripture, brings clarity to a subject, puts meat on the bones of any narrative and shows the continuity of God’s truth.

Well said. It's all very clear what will happen to those who say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when He comes and what happens to those who are left when you actually look at all of scripture instead of cherry picking verses. They will not get another chance at salvation as pretribs falsely claim while giving false hope to people like that, which is terrible. They will be cast into everlasting fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Scripture is very clear about this.

 

[Taken]

Is all you have to offer is this incoherent word salad in response to the original posts? He exegeted the scriptures and explained exactly how he interprets them and all you can come up with in response is whatever this is? Says it all about your doctrine.

Posting IRRELEVANT (to the topic of the RAPTURE) Scriptures explains NOTHING.

The “RAPTURE” to YOU is a THEORY….which matters not to those WHO DO KNOW exclusively:
WHO the Rapture applies to….
WHY the Rapture applies to them only…
WHEN the Rapture occurs…
WHY the Rapture occurs…

No one cares, (including you) IF you know WHAT the Rapture is, WHO it applies to, WHY it applies only to particular people, WHEN it shall occur, WHY it shall occur.

Word salad….LOL…..

Rather the FACT is: it is to deep of a Spiritual Conversation for you to grasp.

Don’t worry about those to whom the RAPTURE DOES APPLY….and rather hope you are alive on the earth in the last days enjoying Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven!!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

LOL. How can anyone answer your incoherent nonsense? Communicate more clearly if you want a response.

Seriously….
These two questions BAFFLE YOU?
ASTOUNDING!



WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Posting IRRELEVANT (to the topic of the RAPTURE) Scriptures explains NOTHING.

The “RAPTURE” to YOU is a THEORY….which matters not to those WHO DO KNOW exclusively:
WHO the Rapture applies to….
WHY the Rapture applies to them only…
WHEN the Rapture occurs…
WHY the Rapture occurs…

No one cares, (including you) IF you know WHAT the Rapture is, WHO it applies to, WHY it applies only to particular people, WHEN it shall occur, WHY it shall occur.

Word salad….LOL…..

Rather the FACT is: it is to deep of a Spiritual Conversation for you to grasp.

Don’t worry about those to whom the RAPTURE DOES APPLY….and rather hope you are alive on the earth in the last days enjoying Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven!!

Glory to God,
Taken

Are you incapable of exegeting scripture? You have no interest in showing exactly how scripture supports your view? You'd rather just make a bunch of statements that serve no purpose and prove nothing?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Seriously….
These two questions BAFFLE YOU?
ASTOUNDING!



WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

LOL. What is wrong with you? What is the point of these questions? I'm not going to waste time answering them when you won't even bother explaining why you are asking them. Why don't you instead exegete some scripture and show how scripture supports your view instead of wasting my time with your questions?

 

[Taken]

Answer gibberish? LOL.

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Not my job to read or comprehend for you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not my job to read or comprehend for you.

So, you have no interest in making any effort to present a clear argument. Okay then. That lets us know that you have no interest in being "Taken" seriously.

 

[Taken]

LOL. What is wrong with you? What is the point of these questions? I'm not going to waste time answering them when you won't even bother explaining why you are asking them. Why don't you instead exegete some scripture and show how scripture supports your view instead of wasting my time with your questions?

WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???


QUESTION….WHY?
ANSWER…….HE DOESN’T!

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

QUESTION…WHAT?
ANSWER……NONE.

Since you and WPM…are convinced the RAPTURE IS THEORY…

WHY….Does Scripture REVEAL an ESCAPE “FOR”:
Those made WHOLE?
Those converted “IN” Christ?
Those with “SAVED” souls?
Those “CRUCIFIED” with Jesus?
Those “WITH Quickened spirits”?

TOO deep for you…you don’t KNOW WHY?

WHAT…is the ESCAPE?

TOO deep for you…you don’t KNOW WHAT?

SIMPLE QUESTIONS …

TOO deep for you….you don’t comprehend?

 

[Taken]

So, you have no interest in making any effort to present a clear argument. Okay then. That lets us know that you have no interest in being "Taken" seriously.

I don’t have an ‘ARGUMENT”…..I have the TRUTH I trust, I believe…

Because YOU call Gods TRUTH a “THEORY”, has zero effect on me.

 

[WPM]

So, you have no interest in making any effort to present a clear argument. Okay then. That lets us know that you have no interest in being "Taken" seriously.

Did you read what he said about the Scriptures we presnted?

Posting IRRELEVANT (to the topic of the RAPTURE) Scriptures explains NOTHING.

He just needs ignored. He has no interest in addressing the Word.

 

[Taken]

Did you read what he said about the Scriptures we presnted?



He just needs ignored. He has no interest in addressing the Word.

Ignoring the TRUTH is NOT addressing the TRUTH…

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???


QUESTION….WHY?
ANSWER…….HE DOESN’T!

Right. And who said otherwise? Certainly not me.

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

QUESTION…WHAT?
ANSWER……NONE.

Exactly. And, again, who said otherwise? Certainly not me. What is the point of these questions?

Since you and WPM…are convinced the RAPTURE IS THEORY…

We believe the pre-trib rapture is theory, to be clear. We believe in a post-trib rapture with the understanding that the trib refers to a time of a high amount of deception, increased wickedness and persecution just before Christ returns, as described in passages like Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 24:23-26 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

WHY….Does Scripture REVEAL an ESCAPE “FOR”:
Those made WHOLE?
Those converted “IN” Christ?
Those with “SAVED” souls?
Those “CRUCIFIED” with Jesus?
Those “WITH Quickened spirits”?

TOO deep for you…you don’t KNOW WHY?

LOL. You are so incredibly childish. Of course no Christians ever experience God's wrath. Hello? Anything else obvious you want to point out?

WHAT…is the ESCAPE?

From God's wrath that will come down on the entire earth when Jesus returns (Matt 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-37, Luke 21:33-36, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Peter 3:10-12).

TOO deep for you…you don’t KNOW WHAT?

Trying to answer the question for me? Something is very wrong with you. You are very strange.

SIMPLE QUESTIONS …

TOO deep for you….you don’t comprehend?

Not at all. Now, can you tell me why you are asking them? Can you take the time to address even one point in the original posts? Or do you just want to keep being weird and not communicate like a normal person?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did you read what he said about the Scriptures we presnted?



He just needs ignored. He has no interest in addressing the Word.

True. Let's not waste any more time on someone who says such things about scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t have an ‘ARGUMENT”

This says it all. You offer nothing of substance to this discussion. No point in even trying to talk to you anymore.

 

[WPM]

I don’t have an ‘ARGUMENT”…..I have the TRUTH I trust, I believe…

This says it all. You offer nothing of substance to this discussion. No point in even trying to talk to you anymore.

Correct! LOL.

 

[jeffweeder]

Seriously….
These two questions BAFFLE YOU?
ASTOUNDING!



WHY…according to Scripture DOES the Lord God appoint Tribulations, Wrath, Suffering UPON Earthly inhabitants….WHO…
1) have given their body, crucified with Jesus
2) received their restored (saved) soul.
3) received Gods SEED, and their spirit reborn
???

WHAT….Scriptures teach, SUCH a man, CALLED;
“having been MADE WHOLE”
“Converted”
“Saved”
“Born Again”
“Sanctified”
“IN Christ”
…….IS on Gods radar to SUFFER tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven???

2Thess 1
3 We ought always and indeed are morally obligated [as those in debt] to give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters, as is fitting, because your faith is growing ever greater, and the [unselfish] love of each one of you toward one another is continually increasing.
4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

John 16:33
I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

Revelation 2:10
Fear nothing that you are about to suffer. Be aware that the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested [in your faith], and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful to the point of death [if you must die for your faith], and I will give you the crown [consisting] of life.



Clearly Gods wrath is not the same thing as Tribulation...,

Mark 16:16
He who has believed [in Me] and has been baptized will be saved [from the penalty of God’s wrath and judgment]; but he who has not believed will be condemned.

Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation [from His wrath and punishment] to everyone who believes [in Christ as Savior], to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:5
But because of your callous stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are [deliberately] storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am talking about a literal identifiable period of time like 7 days, 7 weeks, 7 months, 70 days, or 70 years, etc.

it does not matter, a gap is a gap.

and I proved there is a gap in the 70 weeks.. so i already showed you that also. I just showed you a different example of how prophecy can be broken up. and not all happen at the same time..

But you will only see what you want to see

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am talking about a literal identifiable period of time like 7 days, 7 weeks, 7 months, 70 days, or 70 years, etc.

funny how you totally ignored my post on daniel 9.

its ok. I know you could not refute it and did not expect you to..