Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope

[St. SteVen]

Do we need to have a discussion about whether Zephaniah and/or Isaiah were false prophets?

Or perhaps our understanding of the verse is flawed? A problem in translation somewhere?

The point is that the Bible and other ancient literature, I suppose, uses exaggerated language to describe things. We are in error when we take it literally. IMHO

]

 

[Jack]

The point is that the Bible and other ancient literature, I suppose, uses exaggerated language to describe things. We are in error when we take it literally. IMHO

You just shot down John 3:16 for yourself!

 

[Wick Stick]

You just shot down John 3:16 for yourself!

Huh? We were talking about Isaiah and Zephaniah. What has John 3:16 got to do with it?

 

[Jack]

Huh? We were talking about Isaiah and Zephaniah. What has John 3:16 got to do with it?

St. SteVen rejected the literal Christian Bible. If you can't believe the most important doctrines of the Bible you can't believe any of it! You can't pick and choose the parts you like, as does St. SteVen.

 

[Wick Stick]

St. SteVen rejected the literal Christian Bible. If you can't believe the most important doctrines of the Bible you can't believe any of it! You can't pick and choose the parts you like, as does St. SteVen.

That's silly. He wasn't saying the ENTIRE Bible is non-literal. Just parts of it that... aren't literal.

We probably don't all agree on what parts aren't literal, but everyone believes that figurative language exists.

 

[Jack]

That's silly. He wasn't saying the ENTIRE Bible is non-literal. Just parts of it that... aren't literal.

We probably don't all agree on what parts aren't literal, but everyone believes that figurative language exists.

Calling the most important doctrines "non-literal" is Satanic! Jesus is God and Hell is everlasting.

 

[Wick Stick]

Calling the most important doctrines "non-literal" is Satanic! Jesus is God and Hell is everlasting.

This was about prophecies against the Edomites... not exactly core doctrine. You're the only one confusing that with John 3:16.

 

[St. SteVen]

- Is Sodom still burning?
- How is it that Sodom was punished with eternal fire?
- What does this tell us about the use of the term "eternal" elsewhere in scripture?

Jude 1:7 NIV
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.
They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

[

 

[Behold]

- Is Sodom still burning?
- How is it that Sodom was punished with eternal fire?
- What does this tell us about the use of the term "eternal" elsewhere in scripture?

Jude 1:7 NIV
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.
They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

[

"Sodom" is the place........but its the sodomites who were burned.

A town, a house, is not a living thing.. so, it can't be "punished"......but it can contain those who will be punished, as you find with the sexual perverts who were burned to black ash.

Also, the "eternal fire".. is God's Holiness...

So, what God did, was simply let His Holiness deal with sin.

See, the Holiness of God, would make the SUN seem like an ICEBERG, with regards to HEAT., and those sexual perverts encountered it, literally.

 

[Jack]

- Is Sodom still burning?
- How is it that Sodom was punished with eternal fire?
- What does this tell us about the use of the term "eternal" elsewhere in scripture?

Jude 1:7 NIV
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.
They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

[

It tells us you're twisting what God said again! The meaning is perfectly clear. The PEOPLE are in eternal fire, not the city! Another one of your attacks on God of the Bible!

 

[St. SteVen]

It tells us you're twisting what God said again! The meaning is perfectly clear. The PEOPLE are in eternal fire, not the city! Another one of your attacks on God of the Bible!

This is a rather long, but interesting, citation about the restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom. The bit about Edom is most interesting. It discusses the use of exaggerated language (to make a point) in biblical literature. Meaning, it is not to be taken literally.

The restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah from "eternal" fire Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Ezekiel 16:53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,

The restoration of Ammon and Moab Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Jeremiah 25:22, 27 21 Edom, Moab and Ammon; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:6 “Yet afterward, I will restore the fortunes of the Ammonites,” declares the Lord. Jeremiah 48:4, 47 4 Moab will be broken; her little ones will cry out. 47 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come,” declares the Lord. Here ends the judgment on Moab.


The restoration of Elam Jeremiah 25:25, 27 25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:39 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Elam in days to come,” declares the Lord.


The restoration of Egypt
Jeremiah 25:19, 27 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people, ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Ezekiel 29:13-14 “‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. 14 I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edom

Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

--- COMPARE ---

Revelation 14:11 NIV
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.
There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image,
or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

[

 

[Jack]

This is a rather long, but interesting, citation about the restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom. The bit about Edom is most interesting. It discusses the use of exaggerated language (to make a point) in biblical literature. Meaning, it is not to be taken literally.

The restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah from "eternal" fire Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Ezekiel 16:53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,

The restoration of Ammon and Moab Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Jeremiah 25:22, 27 21 Edom, Moab and Ammon; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:6 “Yet afterward, I will restore the fortunes of the Ammonites,” declares the Lord. Jeremiah 48:4, 47 4 Moab will be broken; her little ones will cry out. 47 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come,” declares the Lord. Here ends the judgment on Moab.


The restoration of Elam Jeremiah 25:25, 27 25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:39 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Elam in days to come,” declares the Lord.


The restoration of Egypt
Jeremiah 25:19, 27 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people, ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Ezekiel 29:13-14 “‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. 14 I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edom

Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

--- COMPARE ---

Revelation 14:11 NIV
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.
There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image,
or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

[

I'm not gonna read your smokescreen. I've read too many of your Bible attacks already.

 

[Wick Stick]

It tells us you're twisting what God said again! The meaning is perfectly clear. The PEOPLE are in eternal fire, not the city! Another one of your attacks on God of the Bible!

The verses in question specifically refer to the land, and the state of the land as being a ruin.

You would know that if you had read them.

 

[Jack]

The verses in question specifically refer to the land, and the state of the land as being a ruin.

You would know that if you had read them.

The land is burning forever? I've read it many times. It's referring to the people!

 

[Wick Stick]

The land is burning forever? I've read it many times. It's referring to the people!

9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

 

[Jack]

Jude 1:7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Clearly referring to the people!

 

[St. SteVen]

Jude 1:7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Clearly referring to the people!

"suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." is a past tense statement.

[

 

[Behold]

"suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." is a past tense statement.

[

Actually it both,

John 3:36

Notice the "Wrath of God".

This is "in effect"..

Every Christ rejector, never born who are alive today yet still in unbelief............are under= " God's Wrath".

John 3:36

Unbelievers who died today, never born again, are now IN "God's Wrath".

= Hell.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

What does 35 mean in relation to “It will not be quenched night or day;” Isaiah 35:1-10
The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. [2] It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God. [3] Strengthen you the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. [4] Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. [5] Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. [6] Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. [7] And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. [8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. [9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there: [10] And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

 

[Wick Stick]

"suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." is a past tense statement.

That's not clear-cut. While Jude 1 describes several events which are clearly in the past, all the verbs there are in present-tense.