Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[brightfame52]

Yes the many who learn and obey.

How are the many to be made righteous [justified] according to Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

Who are the elect?
I know God chose me, I understand he chooses those for his purpose and plan....the more I walk and mature in him, there can be no denying his Mighty power that’s at work....it’s “ Mind Blowing “ ..he could snuff us out within a heart beat....the first thing I remember when I was birthed in the Spirit....I feared God...I also mourned the death of Jesus in my Spirit....I knew in my heart/ spirit that Jesus died for my sin.....only God could deliver that word/ his word to my heart.....

I’m Born Again.....do you believe the 5 points of TULIP?

The elect are men and women God chose iin Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are right. The Ten Commandments are what I call the "bottom line." But God writes the deeper laws on our super-sensitized Spirit-empowered conscience. That is what I go by. I never disobey my conscience. Interestingly, that was a habit I seemed to have been born with. But when I was born again, I suddenly had more laws written on my conscience. There was a significant change in knowledge and spiritual perception.

What you are talking about are the fruit of the Spirit, and that's also what I'm talking about. 2 Peter 1:5-7 shows us the progressive path to perfection. And yes, we CAN become PERFECT in this lifetime, 2 Peter 1:10-11, but we MUST be born again of the Spirit. I went to church for 30 years before becoming born again of the Spirit. Not everyone who goes to church is saved.

You still would have had to grow. And I disagree we can be perfect in this lifetime

As the word says, by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

It is not even us who sanctifies ourself But God who does that

we still have John, saying if he himself claimed he was sinless. He would be decieved, in effect telling people to stop listening to him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

we still have John, saying if he himself claimed he was sinless. He would be decieved, in effect telling people to stop listening to him.

Post #581 shows you what John meant. If John claimed he was sinless and was watching porn, he would be deceived. What is so hard to understand? Don't you care what John is actually saying, or do you want a verse to justify why you sin?

 

[brightfame52]

You still would have had to grow. And I disagree we can be perfect in this lifetime

As the word says, by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

It is not even us who sanctifies ourself But God who does that

we still have John, saying if he himself claimed he was sinless. He would be decieved, in effect telling people to stop listening to him.

Legally by representation the elect for whom Christ died are perfected forever by the simple but blessed fact that Christ died for them, that is offered Himself to God for them Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Post #581 shows you what John meant. If John claimed he was sinless and was watching porn, he would be deceived. What is so hard to understand? Don't you care what John is actually saying, or do you want a verse to justify why you sin?

I know what John was saying

why do people always go to porn, or murder or all the big sins.

John states a fact. If he claimed to be without sin, he is decieved.

John did not say if he claimed to be without sin yet was sinning.. We can;t add to Gods word..

 

[brightfame52]

Post #581 shows you what John meant. If John claimed he was sinless and was watching porn, he would be deceived. What is so hard to understand? Don't you care what John is actually saying, or do you want a verse to justify why you sin?

Was King David more righteous in Gods sight when he was under the inspiration of God wrting a Psalm than he was when bathsheeba was in his arms while her husband was gone at war ?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I know what John was saying

why do people always go to porn, or murder or all the big sins.

John states a fact. If he claimed to be without sin, he is decieved.

John did not say if he claimed to be without sin yet was sinning.. We can;t add to Gods word..

Don't you care what John meant, or do you think John lost your little word game so God must honor you for sinning, because at least you know you're lying?

No, EG! If an unregenerate Jew came up and said they were without sin because they kept the Ten Commandments, it is they who would be lying. Only Jesus can take away sin. And the very next verse shows how! REPENT!

 

[WalkInLight]

You still would have had to grow. And I disagree we can be perfect in this lifetime

As the word says, by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

It is not even us who sanctifies ourself But God who does that

we still have John, saying if he himself claimed he was sinless. He would be decieved, in effect telling people to stop listening to him.

This point I think is hard for us to understand. We look at ourselves as impure and incapable, which is a continuous state. But the Lord implies the priests could wash and cleanse themselves and enter the temple Holy. Jesus emphasised this by talking about what made people impure, and that our hearts needed to be purified and cleansed.

Emotionally we project ourselves as static people who identify a particular way, except the Lord is addressing us as His Holy pure people. For this to be true we must have got something wrong, to continually condemn ourselves even after being cleansed.

The temple and our walk is a promise, the walk has Holiness in it, and if we become unclean, we can repent and be cleansed. Our human culture emphasises class and status which is taken on as if it can be inherited by race, or birth, or our salary, or wealth, or where we live. But God looks are cleansed people, purified Holy people. If this purification was not possible, how could people be anointed with the Holy Spirit and become temples of God.

Part of unbelief is repentance and faith in Jesus and the cleansing of the cross does not purify us as people of the Kingdom. But it takes real faith to see God and the simplicity of this action. Our hearts motivate everything in our lives, and the Lord does change us. Who are we to declare His work is a failure? Who are we to declare what He can achieve or how He looks at us?

What I find hardest to accept is believers declaring the Lord is speaking double speak, or sarcastically, or cannot redeem us truly and lead us exactly in His ways. To declare ourselves perfect would be pride and declaring status, rather than acknowledging it is a walk one step at a time, and everything is always a challenge. Even for Jesus only at the end, when He died on the cross was it finished.

God bless you

 

[Keiw]

No wonder you are having a problem with sin the way you think. Proverbs 23:5 As a man thinks in his heart, SO IS HE. Solomon didn't have the power of the blood of Jesus. I do. Do you? Study the Scriptures I showed in #591 and get them in your heart.

None who practice a sin gets covered by Jesus' blood. Heb 10:26--If you didn't sin you would be perfect and wouldn't need to be covered, but that isn't so is it.

 

[Keiw]

if OSAS is false. You are under law and not Grace.

Good luck!

Law lives within the love of the new covenant. Its not written law anymore. But those with the love of the new covenant would not even consider stealing from their brothers, committing adultery on their mate, having any other God before their face, etc,etc all the way down the line. So law still lives within the love of the new covenant. Sin is lawlessness. 1John 3:4

 

[L.A.M.B.]

This point I think is hard for us to understand. We look at ourselves as impure and incapable, which is a continuous state. But the Lord implies the priests could wash and cleanse themselves and enter the temple Holy. Jesus emphasised this by talking about what made people impure, and that our hearts needed to be purified and cleansed.

Emotionally we project ourselves as static people who identify a particular way, except the Lord is addressing us as His Holy pure people. For this to be true we must have got something wrong, to continually condemn ourselves even after being cleansed.

The temple and our walk is a promise, the walk has Holiness in it, and if we become unclean, we can repent and be cleansed. Our human culture emphasises class and status which is taken on as if it can be inherited by race, or birth, or our salary, or wealth, or where we live. But God looks are cleansed people, purified Holy people. If this purification was not possible, how could people be anointed with the Holy Spirit and become temples of God.

Part of unbelief is repentance and faith in Jesus and the cleansing of the cross does not purify us as people of the Kingdom. But it takes real faith to see God and the simplicity of this action. Our hearts motivate everything in our lives, and the Lord does change us. Who are we to declare His work is a failure? Who are we to declare what He can achieve or how He looks at us?

What I find hardest to accept is believers declaring the Lord is speaking double speak, or sarcastically, or cannot redeem us truly and lead us exactly in His ways. To declare ourselves perfect would be pride and declaring status, rather than acknowledging it is a walk one step at a time, and everything is always a challenge. Even for Jesus only at the end, when He died on the cross was it finished.

God bless you

Welcome to CB.
Good to see you.
May you be a blessing as you are blest!

 

[Keiw]

How are the many to be made righteous [justified] according to Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

God sent Jesus to do his work while here. John 17:4--- he could have failed--so by his obedience all the way to death, it opened the door so many can be made righteous by learning and obeying-EVERY utterance from God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

None who practice a sin gets covered by Jesus' blood. Heb 10:26--If you didn't sin you would be perfect and wouldn't need to be covered, but that isn't so is it.

I agree about those practicing sin. I do not commit willful sins once, let alone practice willful sin.

K, the doctrine of sinlessness died when the worldly Roman Church built their first confessionals. The false doctrine that Christians will always sin is heresy, and for some reason has not been taught in the Church since. Wrong is right, and right is wrong. Evil is good and good is evil. This is the time of the falling away in the church. This is why I have so many enemies on the forums. Most are in lukewarm denominations and would rather believe what they teach than what the Bible teaches. Read 1 John 3 and Romans 6.

Jesus came to TAKE AWAY ALL OF OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. If we didn't have the power of the Holy Spirit and still had a sin nature, then Jesus DID NOT destroy the works of the devil!. BUT JESUS WON!.

K, in 1977 I actually felt a dark heaviness lift out of my body, and immediately I had no desire to sin. All I wanted to do was read my Bible and learn all I could about Jesus. I've been abiding in Him every sin. What also is wrong that is being taught is we can go in and out of the Spirit. NO!!! Once you have the power of the Holy Spirit you never want to leave Him. I love living in total trust and security in the God of the Universe!!! And He's gives me any gift I want. I have them all, except two. And I have a new one for the last two months that I didn't know about. But once I asked Him for it, when church started, I had it immediately!

I love living in the supernatural and miraculous. I feel sorry for those who think they are living in another covenant that has no Holy Spirit, where they still have to struggle with sin, and all the gifts ceased. How boring. Living in unbelief is not abiding in Jesus. and He certainly isn't abiding in them! They still sin, and Jesus doesn't know them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The elect are men and women God chose iin Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

Paul is talking about the apostles, not us! Only the apostles were the FIRST TO BELIEVE. Paul is introducing himself to the Ephesians as an apostle.

Ephesians 1:12
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Predestination doesn't have anything to do with salvation, otherwise Judas would have been saved. Neither does election. Israel was God's elect, yet only a few were saved. You and I are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus if we abide in Jesus and He abides in us. Romans 8:29-30, 1 John 3:24; John 15:4.

After the introduction from 1 to 12, he says in 13,
13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

Nothing about predestination to be saved. The Calvinist doctrine of predestination is false, as are most of their doctrines. Start checking them against Scripture.

 

[Ritajanice]

Don't you care what John meant, or do you think John lost your little word game so God must honor you for sinning, because at least you know you're lying?

No, EG! If an unregenerate Jew came up and said they were without sin because they kept the Ten Commandments, it is they who would be lying. Only Jesus can take away sin. And the very next verse shows how! REPENT!

REPENT....we have had our sins forgiven as a Born Again.....I even felt the weight of my sin being lifted off of me, or out of me, the evening I was birthed in the Spirit...

Are you saying we are to constantly repent?

I don’t believe we should...which I’ve just explained.

We are on a completely different road, when we are first Born Again and of course we know it.

We now belong to God and it’s over to him...he’s the one who indwells us and he’s the one who leads us in the Spirit...

It’s been an remarkable journey all these years......I see and know God more, we have that deep and real meaningful relationship.

The main thing is....we MUST be Born Again...if we are, the only way of knowing that is from the “ HEART” ...when God’s word penetrates and births us in the Spirit.....

Imo and belief a Born Again knows straight away that they are Born Again......because the word of God is....

Hebrews 4:12

King James Version

​

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

Paul is talking about the apostles, not us! Only the apostles were the FIRST TO BELIEVE. Paul is introducing himself to the Ephesians as an apostle.

Ephesians 1:12
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Predestination doesn't have anything to do with salvation, otherwise Judas would have been saved. Neither does election. Israel was God's elect, yet only a few were saved. You and I are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus if we abide in Jesus and He abides in us. Romans 8:29-30, 1 John 3:24; John 15:4.

You keep talking about “ if we abide in Jesus “ ...for a start he’s always in us, he indwells us.

So ,he will never un -birth us....

What do you mean if we abide in him?.....

Do you mean submit to his ways?

Or do you mean do his will?...please explain.

After the introduction from 1 to 12, he says in 13,
13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

Nothing about predestination to be saved. The Calvinist doctrine of predestination is false, as are most of their doctrines. Start checking them against Scripture.

After I heard and received his word into my Spirit....he births us in the Spirit, we must receive his word straight to the heart/ spirit......

The mind alone is not the rebirth....the word has to penetrate the heart and it will if you were predestined to become Born Again.....once his word penetrates your heart that’s when you hear and receive....then obviously it’s relayed to your mind...imo/ belief.

Of course predestined has everything to do with salvation as God’s word says.

God is the decision maker on who he chooses to birth in the Spirit...it’s by His Mercy and Grace....we do not and cannot birth ourselves in the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:5​

​

New International Version​

​

​

5 he[a] predestined us for adoption to sonship[b] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

 

[brightfame52]

God sent Jesus to do his work while here. John 17:4--- he could have failed--so by his obedience all the way to death, it opened the door so many can be made righteous by learning and obeying-EVERY utterance from God.

False and denial of scripture. According to Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

How shall many be made righteous ?

 

[brightfame52]

Paul is talking about the apostles, not us! Only the apostles were the FIRST TO BELIEVE. Paul is introducing himself to the Ephesians as an apostle.

Ephesians 1:12
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

Predestination doesn't have anything to do with salvation, otherwise Judas would have been saved. Neither does election. Israel was God's elect, yet only a few were saved. You and I are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus if we abide in Jesus and He abides in us. Romans 8:29-30, 1 John 3:24; John 15:4.

After the introduction from 1 to 12, he says in 13,
13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

Nothing about predestination to be saved. The Calvinist doctrine of predestination is false, as are most of their doctrines. Start checking them against Scripture.

False Eph 1:4 isnt only talking about the apostles Vs1 proves that:

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And false, Predestination has everything to do with Salvation, you are in outright attack mode against truths of the Gospel.

 

[Ritajanice]

How shall many be made righteous ?

You tell us....?