Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Scott, I think you've made it clear you haven't the ability to be respectful to someone who disagrees with you, so let's put an end to this conversation.
Is it possible to be SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT AND NOT BE SPIRITUALLY CORRECT?
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Seriously..you want me to, expect me to, repeat your blatant and admitted sellective rejection of the parts of the Word of God YOU just don't "agree" with?
Sorry, but you will now have to take your unbelief issue up with God personally. He sent Paul, you rejected Paul. He sent me to clarify, and you have rejected me too.
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To be perfectly clear, you have not disagreed with me, but with God (who first spoke the words you now reject, through Paul).
As for me, I never agreed or disagreed with you--for it was not me who spoke to you. And God is no respecter of persons.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
How do you know that those supposed quotes are actually from Jesus if you doubt Pauls teachings.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And what makes your thinking on this subject divine? Paul said He was taught by Jesus personally to build the church in the gentile areas. do you doubt him?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
The Bible tells us those are Paul's writings, but it doesn't say Paul is infallible.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
The only people I completely trust are God and Jesus. They are quoted frequently in the Bible.
In the Bible you find relatively few things said directly by Jesus Christ or Jehovah. However, you find many things written by inspiration, or in other words, other humans wrote them under the influence of the holy spirit or spirit of God. Jesus mentioned one such example here:
Mark 12:35 However, as Jesus continued teaching in the temple, he said: “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is David’s son? 36 By the holy spirit, David himself said,
‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’ [Psal. 110:1]
37 David himself calls him Lord, so how can it be that he is his son?”
Jesus said that whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will never have forgiveness (Matt. 12:31,32). He said this because the Pharisees were accusing him of speaking under the influence of Satan, the father of lies. When a person speaks against what the holy spirit has inspired as if it were coming from error or a lie, the person is blaspheming against the holy spirit.
Mark 12:35 However, as Jesus continued teaching in the temple, he said: “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is David’s son? 36 By the holy spirit, David himself said,
‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’ [Psal. 110:1]
37 David himself calls him Lord, so how can it be that he is his son?”
Jesus said that whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will never have forgiveness (Matt. 12:31,32). He said this because the Pharisees were accusing him of speaking under the influence of Satan, the father of lies. When a person speaks against what the holy spirit has inspired as if it were coming from error or a lie, the person is blaspheming against the holy spirit.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So show us where we have a place that says these are Jesus' writings.
So where do you think Paul, in communicating as Gods Apostle was wrong.
Do you believe this verse:
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:19-21
King James Version
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
These are either true statements or false.
If you think false---Why!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
But those who wrote those supposed quoted down are not infgallible as you said. How do you know they quoted God and Jesus accurately????????????
We discover that the complete Bible, encompassing the God-inspired Scriptures, which include Jewish Hebrew-Aramaic and Christian Greek texts, is regarded as "living":
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.
The fact is that because they were "inspired" or written under the influence of God's holy spirit, these Scriptures contain bits of information that move to profound changes in understanding of the truth and behavior in ways that cannot be emulated by anything else in the world. This occurs because the holy spirit exercises power over people, and the Scriptures are imbued with that power.
When a person rejects the God-inspired Scriptures, it is much more than just the human writers that he rejects.
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.
The fact is that because they were "inspired" or written under the influence of God's holy spirit, these Scriptures contain bits of information that move to profound changes in understanding of the truth and behavior in ways that cannot be emulated by anything else in the world. This occurs because the holy spirit exercises power over people, and the Scriptures are imbued with that power.
When a person rejects the God-inspired Scriptures, it is much more than just the human writers that he rejects.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Jesus is quoted over and over in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I believe God made sure the Bible historians were accurate. It certainly was within his power to do so. Why would he do otherwise?
@Bob Estey It's clear that you dismiss parts of the Bible that you think aren't from God or Jesus. However, the rest of us hold a different view.
I'm curious as to why you continue to articulate a stance of yours that is already well known to everyone in the forum.
I'm curious as to why you continue to articulate a stance of yours that is already well known to everyone in the forum.
And there it is, A COMPLETE CONTRADICTION to your previous claims!
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
When someone directs a post at me, I think it appropriate I respond. Do you remember the 400 prophets who were wrong and the one who was right? I am not a prophet, but I am not intimidated if a group of people disagree with me.
I dismiss none of the Bible. I believe the Lord saw to it that the historical accounts are accurate, so when God or Jesus are quoted, you can believe them. The letters of Paul are authentic.
That is great. I have great respect for courage that stems from genuine foundations.
Then I wonder why you disagree with the biblical theocratic order that position males as head of females.
Contentious topics that have emerged as significant global political matters can alarm certain Christians, particularly regarding the role of women in divine order, premarital sexual relations, abortion, and homosexuality.
Navigating these issues demands unwavering loyalty to God and a great deal of courage, as society often refuses to acknowledge that God's justice and wisdom surpass those of any individual or human institution on Earth.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
I know of no instance in the Bible where the Lord commands women to be subservient to men, and it makes no sense to me that they should be.
Neither do I.
Even so, I have come across numerous passages in the Bible that indicate that the male is the leader of the female. However, I don't know any women in my congregation who are "subservient to men," which I believe is what you're implying. All the women follow the theocratic structure, and they don't feel degraded by it. In fact, they take great pride in their role of sharing the good news, often more so than the males, who are primarily engaged in other responsibilities within the congregation. As the Bible points out, each part of the body serves a unique purpose, and all are essential.
Whatever message you're attempting to convey, I fail to grasp it from the broader viewpoint you appear to have.
Everything stated in the Bible resonates with me, and for the aspects that are difficult to understand, I strive to follow them anyway, for God knows better.
I think I've covered all my thoughts on this subject with you. Further discussion on this matter would be unproductive. I appreciate your time... perhaps we'll meet again if you have another biblical topic in mind.
Wishing you a wonderful day ahead.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
When someone drops out of a conversation, I think the other person is allowed a final response. Otherwise I could say something terrible to you, not leaving you the opportunity to respond, not that you said anything terrible to me. So let me say this:
What people obey is what they worship. It is the Bible some obey. Shouldn't it be God that they obey?
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