Is it possible to be SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT AND NOT BE SPIRITUALLY CORRECT?

[Bob Estey]

The law is Spirit. what of yet carnal, sold under sin. Which makes me wonder about when the law says to circumcise your hearts. Only God who is Spirit can circumcision the heart/Mind?; which is by the circumcision of Christ, the circumcision made without hands being the work of God and of carnal men?

And where do that law come from? what does as the law says, let the women keep silent. Is the law Spiritual or carnal? Yet there is unto condemnation upon that which is born of flesh, and unto obedience unto Life on that which is born Spirit?

Show me where God or Jesus told us women were supposed to be silent.

 

[Taken]

Applying that type of expectation to now, how would you describe the likely error of expectation of the church?

The Church… the only Church I recognize is Christs Church, exclusively Gods Word.

Man made Churches, all have minor to major issues for a whole host of reasons.

 

[ScottA]

The law is Spirit. what of yet carnal, sold under sin? Which makes me wonder about when the law says to circumcise your hearts. Only God who is Spirit can circumcision the heart/Mind?; which is by the circumcision of Christ, the circumcision made without hands being the work of God and not of carnal men?

You write ‘And where does that law come from?’ what does as the law says, let the women keep silent. Is the law Spiritual or carnal? Yet there is the ministration unto condemnation upon that which is born of flesh, and the ministration of the Spirit: obedience unto Life on that which is born of the Spirit of God.

The Law was given as, and practiced by Israel, as part of the light unto the gentiles: which was given as a living parable made manifest, that all people would come to know the revelations of God.

In the case of circumcision, it was/is a parable showing the reality and need of removing and discard of the flesh that goes before (foreskin) of those also born [again] of the Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

The Church… the only Church I recognize is Christs Church, exclusively Gods Word.

Man made Churches, all have minor to major issues for a whole host of reasons.

The reason I ask however, is to specifically address the likely repeat among Gentile church, that first occurred among Israel unbeknownst to the Priests and Pharisees of Jesus' first advent who failed to put the pieces of scripture and prophecy together.

Do you see any comparisons?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you not understand that the natural is first--being that of elements and seen, "but afterward the spiritual" which to the flesh is unseen?

And what is this supposed to mean in regards to what I have written you. Are you saying the bible is now passe' and spiritual meanings have taken its place????

 

[Taken]

Show me where God or Jesus told us women were supposed to be silent.

Hi Bob,

In the Early establishment of “the Church”, Jewish men were choses by Jesus to hear, learn, then spread Gods Word.

Those men, Disciples (following Students)… then appointed teachers (Apostles)… had the mission to do what Jesus came to do …seek out the JEWS and Preach to Them.
They preached, in the country side, towns, cities AND in Synagogue's.

Something different …inclusion of preaching TO men AND women.

Ever hear a group of women together hearing something new….?
they chatter, talk, blurt out questions.

Jewish men having known and attended Temple, Synagogue , historically for centuries… already knew the protocal for behavior…be Quiet and Listen.

It is a two fold implication…
Women were not tasked to be head of household, teach the Husband the Word of God or Teach in the Synagogue or the Temple …men taught one at a time while all others remained Silent Listening.

Several of todays Churches have continual talking going on in the Congregations, while one is preaching.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Show me where God or Jesus told us women were supposed to be silent.

That is a good observation. I can’t right now give you where God or Jesus said it. Your question or …challenge? ‘Show me where God or Jesus told us women were supposed to be silent’ is worth exploring. In taking a closer look at the passage, added my thoughts…
1 Corinthians 14:34 Lexicon: The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

Women are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves. As the law also says.
^Paul “as the law says also” so there should be something about women should be silent and not speak in the law? There should be a somewhere this comes from in “as also the law says”


1 Corinthians 14:35 Lexicon: If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

For it is improper for a women to speak in the church.

Again. I googled it and there isn’t a clear “as the law says” only a lot of speculation going back to it began in Genesis when her desire would be to her husband, and he would rule her.





1 Corinthians 14:32 Lexicon: and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;

The spirit of the prophets are subject to prophets.

Does the law also say “the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets.”





1 Corinthians 14:37 Lexicon: If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.


? > -if any man is thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.



1 Corinthians 14:38 Lexicon: But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Even more ?>: But if anyone does not recognize [this], he is not recognized.
^by whom he who does not recognizes, is not recognized?
Not recognized by men?
Or is he not recognized by God?

I did find this: not written by Paul 1 Peter 3:3-5 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; [4] But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. [5] For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
-but I don’t know how a quiet spirit is not allowed to speak. Christ was silent, led away to slaughter as a dumb lamb?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't believe we are required to obey anyone but God or Jesus. There is much to be learned, though, from the other Bible writers.

So you pick and choose what writers you choose to obey. Ok! YOu do not recognize the Bible as the Inspired Word of GTod and pick and choose what you choose to accept as from god everything that is not a direct quote from the Father or Jesus. You do realize that you are goiong down the path all cult leaders have gone. the end is the same for you as it was for all them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, I don't reject them. You can learn a lot from Paul. I just don't give them the authority that I give to God and Jesus.

And you do not by whose authority? Matthew Mark Luke and John wrote the gospels where the words of Jesus are. do you give them the authority that you give God and Jesus? where do you get your knowledge for what God and Jesus say and teach people today?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't believe we are required to obey anyone but God or Jesus. There is much to be learned, though, from the other Bible writers.

So you do not believe all the books of the Bible are inspired by god to be obeyed then. You are the founder of your own religion and pick and choose what YOU think are direct communications from God.

 

[Taken]

The reason I ask however, is to specifically address the likely repeat among Gentile church, that first occurred among Israel unbeknownst to the Priests and Pharisees of Jesus' first advent who failed to put the pieces of scripture and prophecy together.

Do you see any comparisons?

I see Anciently and Historically little by little, bit by bit God Revealing Knowledge.

Considering man, naturally born without Knowledge, there is always youths without Gods Knowledge.

When Gods Words is on the back burner, and fun, entertainment is societies highlight focus… you get a continual mix of impatience, doubts, ignorance…and certainly unbelievers who care nothing about the Journey and wants a magical proof without their own time of learning the Knowledge investment.

I do not presume Every “cleric” to be vested in the Benefit of Gods Word, any more than I believe every other person with A Degree in whatever Field is vested or duly qualified in whatever field.

People at large are duped into believing “Degrees” / “Titles” / “likability” means “trustworthy”, and verifying “unnecessary”.

Not once does Scripture Teach to “believe IN “human” men.”

And Scripture teaches to verify everything you hear.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bob Estey]

Hi Bob,

In the Early establishment of “the Church”, Jewish men were choses by Jesus to hear, learn, then spread Gods Word.

Those men, Disciples (following Students)… then appointed teachers (Apostles)… had the mission to do what Jesus came to do …seek out the JEWS and Preach to Them.
They preached, in the country side, towns, cities AND in Synagogue's.

Something different …inclusion of preaching TO men AND women.

Ever hear a group of women together hearing something new….?
they chatter, talk, blurt out questions.

Jewish men having known and attended Temple, Synagogue , historically for centuries… already knew the protocal for behavior…be Quiet and Listen.

It is a two fold implication…
Women were not tasked to be head of household, teach the Husband the Word of God or Teach in the Synagogue or the Temple …men taught one at a time while all others remained Silent Listening.

Several of todays Churches have continual talking going on in the Congregations, while one is preaching.

I haven't found anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or God tell women they can't speak in a church or should be subservient to men in any way.

 

[Bob Estey]

That is a good observation. I can’t right now give you where God or Jesus said it. Your question or …challenge? ‘Show me where God or Jesus told us women were supposed to be silent’ is worth exploring. In taking a closer look at the passage, added my thoughts…
1 Corinthians 14:34 Lexicon: The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

Women are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves. As the law also says.
^Paul “as the law says also” so there should be something about women should be silent and not speak in the law? There should be a somewhere this comes from in “as also the law says”


1 Corinthians 14:35 Lexicon: If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

For it is improper for a women to speak in the church.

Again. I googled it and there isn’t a clear “as the law says” only a lot of speculation going back to it began in Genesis when her desire would be to her husband, and he would rule her.





1 Corinthians 14:32 Lexicon: and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;

The spirit of the prophets are subject to prophets.

Does the law also say “the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets.”





1 Corinthians 14:37 Lexicon: If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.


? > -if any man is thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.



1 Corinthians 14:38 Lexicon: But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Even more ?>: But if anyone does not recognize [this], he is not recognized.
^by whom he who does not recognizes, is not recognized?
Not recognized by men?
Or is he not recognized by God?

I did find this: not written by Paul 1 Peter 3:3-5 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; [4] But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. [5] For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
-but I don’t know how a quiet spirit is not allowed to speak. Christ was silent, led away to slaughter as a dumb lamb?

I think only God and Jesus have the authority to give us commandments - not Paul.

 

[Bob Estey]

So you pick and choose what writers you choose to obey. Ok! YOu do not recognize the Bible as the Inspired Word of GTod and pick and choose what you choose to accept as from god everything that is not a direct quote from the Father or Jesus. You do realize that you are goiong down the path all cult leaders have gone. the end is the same for you as it was for all them.

Pick and choose? God and Jesus are divine - we must obey them. No one else is divine.

 

[Bob Estey]

And you do not by whose authority? Matthew Mark Luke and John wrote the gospels where the words of Jesus are. do you give them the authority that you give God and Jesus? where do you get your knowledge for what God and Jesus say and teach people today?

The only authority I am aware of are Jesus and God.

 

[Bob Estey]

So you do not believe all the books of the Bible are inspired by god to be obeyed then. You are the founder of your own religion and pick and choose what YOU think are direct communications from God.

I have only one God - the Bible is not my God.

 

[Taken]

I haven't found anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or God tell women they can't speak in a church or should be subservient to men in any way.

Consider Gods Order and Way…
God First, Man, Female, Offspring.

1Cor. 14:
[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Women didn’t Anciently participate in Temple/ Synagogue's…
Men attended, Listened, learned, taught their wives and children.

1Cor 14:
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Men were head of the household. They were to follow the Example of God of Christ and rehearse what they learned to their wives and children.

A conundrum for today, with so many households absent of Husbands (especially faithful husbands).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

And what is this supposed to mean in regards to what I have written you. Are you saying the bible is now passe' and spiritual meanings have taken its place????

No not passe, never out of date. But being first, is to be understood as elementary: As God who is spirit and who's words are higher, we who go to Him must advance from this lower physical plain...or of our own freewill stop short of the fullness of His invitation to our own peril.

 

[ScottA]

I see Anciently and Historically little by little, bit by bit God Revealing Knowledge.

Considering man, naturally born without Knowledge, there is always youths without Gods Knowledge.

When Gods Words is on the back burner, and fun, entertainment is societies highlight focus… you get a continual mix of impatience, doubts, ignorance…and certainly unbelievers who care nothing about the Journey and wants a magical proof without their own time of learning the Knowledge investment.

I do not presume Every “cleric” to be vested in the Benefit of Gods Word, any more than I believe every other person with A Degree in whatever Field is vested or duly qualified in whatever field.

People at large are duped into believing “Degrees” / “Titles” / “likability” means “trustworthy”, and verifying “unnecessary”.

Not once does Scripture Teach to “believe IN “human” men.”

And Scripture teaches to verify everything you hear.

Glory to God,
Taken

Perhaps I am not being clear enough. I was referring rather to the fact that when Israel's most learned men were in the hot seat--their studies and assumed knowledge failed them. And now the Church is in the hot seat assuming they too are without error.

 

[Bob Estey]

Consider Gods Order and Way…
God First, Man, Female, Offspring.

1Cor. 14:
[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Women didn’t Anciently participate in Temple/ Synagogue's…
Men attended, Listened, learned, taught their wives and children.

1Cor 14:
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Men were head of the household. They were to follow the Example of God of Christ and rehearse what they learned to their wives and children.

A conundrum for today, with so many households absent of Husbands (especially faithful husbands).

Glory to God,
Taken

I consider the words of God and Jesus. I'm not aware of anything either said suggesting women were subservient to men.